Quantcast Bitrates: CQmatic - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
01-10-2004, 09:51 AM
nighthawk nighthawk is offline
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Hi all,

No matter what I do CQmatic is making my video files to large

The finished video if muxed with my sound file will never fir on a 80min cd.

Do I need to change the bitrates upper and lower in TMPGEnc after CQmatic gives me it's final CQ or does CQmatic take care of that automatically like for the CQ?

I'm beginning to get the feeling that CQmatic just won't accuratly get the video files size right. Anyone else been able to figure this thing out so it will work properly?

nighthawk
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  #2  
01-10-2004, 11:17 AM
Crackhead Crackhead is offline
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^^ first, a bit more information about settings, final file size etc. would be great

but, i have noticed this, too. All my encodes were approx. 50mb too big. I did a little search in the forums here and found out that it is recommended to set the min bitrate in your project to 0.57xAvg.Bit.
Tried this and really, my encode went down by 3, maybe this helps.

btw @all the experts here : is there a workaround for this? since such a high min bitrate wastes a lot of space!
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  #3  
01-10-2004, 12:06 PM
bigggt bigggt is offline
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Hi Nighthawk ,i was having the same problems but like Crackhead said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackhead
recommended to set the min bitrate in your project to 0.57xAvg.Bit.
That worked for me ,also you could try TOK and see if it is better for you
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  #4  
01-10-2004, 01:41 PM
nighthawk nighthawk is offline
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Here is the script right out of moviestacker


LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\MPEG2Dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\GripFit_preview.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\BlockBuster.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\UnFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\LegalClip.dll")

Mpeg2Source("F:\The Movie\movie.d2v")
LegalClip()
GripCrop(352, 240, overscan=1)
GripSize(resizer="BilinearResize")
UnFilter(50, 50)
TemporalSmoother(1, 2)
MergeChroma(blur(1.5)
MergeLuma(blur(0.2))
BlockBuster(method="noise", detail_max=7, seed=1)
GripBorders()
LegalClip()


The rest of the story:

Audio is 128 and the file size is 126mb from HeadAC3he

Calcmatic give me this Source is 138min & 15sec
Audio is 128 bitrate 1 stream
number of disks is 1 80min
Average bitrate is 662.1 & ".57" average is 377.4
Video size is 686480
Audio size is 132720

I then loade my script into TMPGEnc loaded the proper KVCD template which is the NTSC LBR 180min
Made sure that the source range is unchecked and the numbers were 0 & -1
Saved the project as a TMPGEnc text file

I then loaded the text file into CQmatic with the movie length 138 and the average bitrate of 662. Ran perdiction only and my final CQ was 82.85 when encoded the files size came way larger than the predicted size in calcmatic. So much in fact that when muxed with the audio it was right around 860mb

I am completly stumped as to where the problem is or how to fix it. I also would get these same problems with manual prediction.

I should mention that I'm using Smartripper DVD2AVI 1.76 HeadAC3he and Moviestacker.

TMPGEnc is version 2.521.58.169 which I think is the latest version right now.
Also when using DVD2AVI is set it to force film.

ANY HELP ON THIS WOULD BE GREAT AS IT'S DRIVING ME NUTS!!
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  #5  
01-12-2004, 04:19 AM
mistermickster mistermickster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nighthawk
Here is the script right out of moviestacker


LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\MPEG2Dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\GripFit_preview.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\BlockBuster.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\UnFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\LegalClip.dll")

Mpeg2Source("F:\The Movie\movie.d2v")
LegalClip()
GripCrop(352, 240, overscan=1)
GripSize(resizer="BilinearResize")
UnFilter(50, 50)
TemporalSmoother(1, 2)
MergeChroma(blur(1.5)
MergeLuma(blur(0.2))
BlockBuster(method="noise", detail_max=7, seed=1)
GripBorders()
LegalClip()
Why are you using this script from MovieStacker

You will get better results using the MA script here, only using MovieStacker to give you the correct GripCrop line

An alternative to this script is to remove the asharp line and change the resizer to "LanczosResize", to produce a sharper picture.

Try that and see what happens to your file size.
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  #6  
01-12-2004, 04:48 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nighthawk
I then loaded the text file into CQmatic with the movie length 138 and the average bitrate of 662
On such long movie is HIGHTLY recommanded to use x3 prediction.

In x1 mode, CQMAtic takes a 2 min sample whatever the source length. The longer is the source, the worst is the accuracy.

In x3 the sample is 6 minutes long.
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  #7  
01-12-2004, 09:45 AM
nighthawk nighthawk is offline
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Is there a guide for using the scripts? I've been following a couple of different guides here and both call for loading the script out of Moviestacker into TMPGEnc. I'm not at all familiar with the MA script or even how to use it

I will try perdiction x3 and see if that's better.

nighthawk
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  #8  
01-12-2004, 09:53 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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There is no guide. There is the avisynth manual that explain how avisynth works and there is this :

http://www.avisynth.org/index.php?page=YourFirstScript
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  #9  
01-12-2004, 04:16 PM
nighthawk nighthawk is offline
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Is there anything wrong with using the script right out of moviestacker? I went to the avisysnth site and I really very much fell like a complete noob. Not that eventually I couldn't learn it but when reading some of the threads here about different dll's to be installed and different scripts and filters and such. It's very hard to know just where to start the process.

Before I learned of KVCD there was only VCD for me. In which I used the internal filters of TMPGEnc with good results. Maybe not the best by some of the pro's standards here. But it was enough for me to do what I wanted to do.

Are there more exact perdiciton methods for the scripts right out of moviestacker?

nighthawk
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  #10  
01-12-2004, 06:46 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi nighthawk,
The thing is that when you use Moviestacker to create your script it will make up a script for avisynth 2.0x which is now out of business.
Nowadays we use avisynth 2.53 with Kwags MA script.
If you press the search button for MA script you will find the latest build for avisynth 2.5x.
Use it because it will optimize your movies compression.
You just have to adapt it a bit like the path of your d2v file or the resolution you prefer.
But don't get rid of Moviestacker or FitCD as from times to times they are very helpfull.
And don't worry about feeling like a complete noob. We all feel like that once in a while. Like me: I've been using avisynth for months and I only realized I can stop using the "LoadPlugin()" lines about 2 or 3 weeks ago...
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  #11  
01-12-2004, 08:16 PM
nighthawk nighthawk is offline
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I found the latest MA script as a sticky thread under Scripts.

However I am not completly sure how to use it.?

From the looks of the Script there are certain dll's needed and filters. Where would I find those dll's and the filters? And how to install them.

I've gotten use to Moviestacker preloading the dll's and appling the proper filters. When I'm looking at the Script I see that I have to specify my own gripcrop parameters.

Is this script used with moviestacker?

Wow am I lost
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  #12  
01-13-2004, 02:20 AM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nighthawk
I found the latest MA script as a sticky thread under Scripts. However I am not completly sure how to use it.?
You really don't need to understand every single thing that is going on within the MA script in order to use it. All you really need to do is copy and paste the script into Notepad and save it as a .avs file (or you could save it as a text file with a .txt extension and then rename it to have a .avs extension later). Then you make the few changes that rds_correia already previously mentioned to your MPEG2Source() line and GripCrop() line and save the changes.

Quote:
From the looks of the Script there are certain dll's needed and filters. Where would I find those dll's and the filters?
Doing a search here will turn up many posts by other people who have asked the same question and were told to go to http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/ to find the vast majority of filters they could ever need.

Quote:
And how to install them.
If you are using Avisynth 2.53 (which is the necessary version in order to use the MA script), then just download all of the 2.53 filters you see that are being used in the MA script. You might also want to download all of the filters listed by Dialhot in his optimal AVI script if you ever plan on doing conversions of that type and using his script. Once you have downloaded the necessary .dlls, just unzip them (ONLY THE ACTUAL .dll files for 2.53!.......not the .src or .txt or anything else that might come bundled within the zip files) into the "Plugins" folder which you will find within the main "Avisynth" program folder that is created automatically when you installed Avisynth 2.53. You can also unzip the .doc or .txt ReadMe files for each of the filters into the "docs" folder found within the "Avisynth" folder (or anywhere else you'd like to keep them for that matter) in case you'd like to read them later on to learn what each filter does and how to make changes to their parameters.

Quote:
Is this script used with moviestacker?
Since MovieStacker is based on the old avisynth 2.08 (and uses old filters), the only thing some people use it for anymore is to obtain the correct resizing and addborders parameters to plug into their scripts if they do not trust letting GripCrop/GripSize/GripBorders perform its own automatic functions to determine size and borders for them. On some occasions the Gripfit .dll will struggle to properly find the correct resizing values for a source, and it will not work. So some people do not like using Gripfit. However, it usually works and is recommended to newcomers since it makes scripting easier and eliminates the need for an extra step (MovieStacker) in the process.

Quote:
Wow am I lost
But you're finding your way (as we all did), so don't worry. It'll be worth the effort.

Good luck,
-d&c
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  #13  
01-13-2004, 11:41 AM
nighthawk nighthawk is offline
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O.k I think I'm on the right trail now and thanks

I'm confused about the Linear motion adaptive filtering and how to set that up. Also the line right under GripBorders that refers to letterbox do I need to do anything there? As well as the last line that refers to function do I do anything there or just leave as is?

nighthawk
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  #14  
01-13-2004, 03:51 PM
nighthawk nighthawk is offline
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O.K I've got everything downloaded and the ninstalled into the plugins folder of avisynth however I keep getting the error unable to load MPEG2Dec3.dll and I have that installed into the plugins folder of avisynth.

Did I install this into a wrong area?
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  #15  
01-13-2004, 03:52 PM
nighthawk nighthawk is offline
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one quick note the avisynth version is 2.53.
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  #16  
01-13-2004, 04:42 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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What is the exact and complete text of the error, and you script ?
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  #17  
01-13-2004, 04:46 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi nighthawk,
Go to Donald Graft's site http://neuron2.net/ and search for decodefix or just
download http://neuron2.net/fixd2v/decodefix100.zip.
That's DG's bundle that comes with a fixed DVD2AVI 1.77.3 and a fixed Mpeg2Dec3.dll.
The fix applies for source frame loss under some circumstances.
Extract the zipfile and copy the Mpeg2Dec3.dll to your avisynth plugins folder which would probably be c:\program files\avisynth\plugins
Now try your script with VDubMod again.
PS-Maybe you would be better off with DG's DVD2AVI for the future. Just remember to save your projects in 1.76 mode
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  #18  
01-13-2004, 06:24 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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rds_correia, you are giving the advice to take this version to everyone even if their problem isn't tied to what is fixed in this version. It's very confusing for a newbie !

I DO NOT USE THIS VERSION and never had the slightest problem.
This package comes with a new DVD2AVI intoducing new problems (as you said, you have to think about the save format else all will screw up - btw this new DVD2AVI MUST be used when you have the new dll. That's not a matter of choice, and there is no "may be"), a new MPEG2DEC3 dll (that does not even have the same name !) and you must remove the dll that every script here refer (the original mpeg2dec3.dll) because if you forget that, again everything is screwed up.

And all that for what ? Because under some circumtances, old dll loses ONE frame !

Please, think twice before talking this dll.

Just my 2 cents (and no offence)
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  #19  
01-13-2004, 11:16 PM
nighthawk nighthawk is offline
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I'm using the MA script now and each time I try to load it into TMPGEnc I'm getting this error message in TMPGEnc.

"LoadPlugin: unable to load "C:\Filters25\MPEG2Dec3.dll""
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  #20  
01-13-2004, 11:17 PM
nighthawk nighthawk is offline
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I do have that DLL in the plugin folder of avisynth 2.53
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