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 digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives] Mencoder: Mencoder for Windows

#101
02-17-2004, 10:46 AM
 digitall.doc Free Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Valencia (España) Posts: 741 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hello friends:
I begun making tests with ffvfw, and stopped by now, waiting the advice of people with more knowledge, to avoid the too high/too low bitrate prob.
I also follow all your mencoder threads. And even if it looks like that just 4-5 people is working and posting on this, I'm sure that lots of us are following your progress and waiting your improvements. You can see it looking at the number of views of mencoder threads.
I have to recognize that although downloaded all the softw I didn't try it yet. But I want you to know that some of us are waiting for your improvements, and if I just don't test and share results is because I'm not prepaired to give clues or improvements, just can follow your steps.
A doubt: if mencoder and ffvfw share (more or less) the same encoder engine, we can use settings from one to another, isn't it?.
And I also think (just from a theoretical point of view, no knowledge here) that with a encoding based in min and max bitrate we'll solve the bitrate issue, but.. how do we solve then the "oscillating" Q behaviour?.
Well friends, keep on your good job
Someday, 12:01 PM
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#102
02-17-2004, 02:14 PM
 incredible Free Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 3,189 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
 min and max bitrate
Well to me it "seems" that FFvfw and Mencoder use these determined min and max only at 2pass mode in a effective way ... but till now I did no tests on 2pass.

In TmpgEnc you can choose CQ AND min and max which does affect the quantisation algorythm.
In FFvW and Mencoder if you choose Quantizer mode, it will use a constant "Q Curve" which is by the way the sense of Q Encoding, but as we see many people can't duplicate a constant/Linear Q curve. And its not figured out if that issue bases on a diff. System (I got Win2000 running) or a codes-in-the-system issue. I have no Idea.

What I found out is that Mencoder for Windows is much faster (on my machine) than FFvfw and till now I did not testet all the parameters which are shown i the other "comparison" thread started by "Bilu" .. Don't know if that was the name of that experimenting member there , ... anyhow .. its interesting.
#103
02-17-2004, 03:43 PM
 Hydeus Free Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Omicron Persei 8 Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I only can say that ffvfw neither respect max bitrate value in second pas of two-pass mode In constant bitrate, the bitrate value was seting VBV bufer value. I'm curious what parameter is set through max bitrate in two pass mode
I think I've readed somevere around that max bitrate value in mencoder is not respected, like in ffvfw. (It was you rds_correia )

PS: I'm wondering with this for a while. Is yours nick RDS_CORREIA means something ?? Pure curiosity
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#104
02-17-2004, 05:13 PM
 rds_correia Free Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chinese Democracy starts now! Posts: 2,563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
@all
Ok guys,
Let's put everything plain and simple for anybody that comes around can understand.
Please bear with me because this might seam retorical speech for many but in fact is my only way
of explaining all the facts.
When we started testing with ffvfw I had my WinXP all screwed up! I had codecs installed that were
pointing to inexistant .drv .vxd .dll or whatever.
My XP was taking more than 5 minutes getting to WinXP GUI.
I mean it was all screwed up.
I have reinstalled everything I had and it's fine again. It takes 2,5 min to get to the GUI for instance.
All codecs installed and see on system properties are now configurable.
At least those that have configurable properties.
As I said at that time, not so long ago, and since Inc was using both encoded movie and bitrate viewer
screenshots for comparison I decided to give bitviewer a try too as I had never seen it working. I could
only read that many people used it for reference and many thought it was a bit subjective. But as
a means to proove I could produce the same results as Inc I downloaded it and I could only be surprised
when I saw that both "Q" and bitrate curves were doing the crazy stuff and not near linear at all.
Because of my lazyness I only reinstalled XP a few days ago (maybe a week ago?) and, what do
you know? Every single test encode I had made now looks as flat as Algarve's seaside .
I could take two ways for interpreting this issue: Either my XP was so screwed up that some
applications didn't work as they should, which in fact is true since many crashed such as bitviewer,
or that my bitrate viewer uses dshow filters or installed video codecs to analyse my encodings.
But yesterday while I was posting with vhelp on our ffxxx/mencoder topics I was also talking
on the phone with a friend that is starting KVCDeing. The guy is ok with CQM/Tmpg but
since I've been telling him about the ffxxx/mencoder testing he decided to try it also.
That's when he called me yesterday telling me that his bitrate viewer was looking as bad as mine
Damn, I thought, I have understand why this happens, so I stick with him on the phone for more
than 2 hours...
He's runing XP, he has bitviewer same version than mine and everything.
But suddenly I found out HIS problem was completely different from mine!
I only understood this when the guy told me that though both Q and bit curves were crazy, his
gop size was sharp 15 (IBBPBBPBBP...)...
"What? I never saw that on my bitviewer. Where the hell is that option?"
And suddenly again everything made perfect sense. "Hey you didn't install any crack or
something, did you?"
"Yeah!"...
Guess what, I told him to uninstall bitviewer, clean it's supposedly empty directory and reinstall
it WITHOUT cracking it.
"Et voilá". Suddenly (again? I really like this word) all his encodes showed as flat in "Q" as Algarve's
seaside, too.
So, bottom line: Don't get me wrong but either the full version of bitviewer is crazy
enough to produce this sh!t or maybe, (look how I emphasize) maybe, some of you guys have
the cracked version of it installed for some worthless sh!t idea.
Am I right or am I wrong?
Try uninstalling it. After that MAKE SURE you delete the folder where it was installed! Reinstall it.
Now try ffvfw's or mencoder's m2v and see how the green line is so beautifully flat.
Man, am I a genious or what?

@Hydeus,
Yep,
rds_correia is my whole name initials: Rui Daniel Saraiva Correia
But you can call me Rui or just rds.
No, vbv buffer is not taking care of the bitrate.
Use vrc_minrate=300:vrc_maxrate=6000:vbitrate=4000.
Remove any vqmin, vqmax, vqscale.
Try it. Average bitrate of encoded video ~4000?
Then it's vbitrate that rules.
Cheers
__________________
Rui
#105
02-17-2004, 05:34 PM
 Hydeus Free Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Omicron Persei 8 Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You know Rui when you posted setings for mencoder, I realized why my ffvfw had have no respect for maxbitrate na file size. My quantizers values were all to 3, so no wonder that I was geting this behaviour. Now I can say that 2-pass mode can produce proper file size (very precise), and limits max bitrate (more or les precise) by rising quantizer. Of course this produces blox striking my eyes

This was only intermision of ffvfw, but while they use the same engine, I think (and see) that they can produce similar quality, and also settings are bond together.

Edit: Can someone post exact max bitrate values (VCD, SVCD, DVD) from MPEG specification

There was Edit2, but I've deleted, while I've found answer
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#106
02-17-2004, 06:40 PM
 vhelp Free Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,009 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Evening gents

I was hit w/ a little "Julvenation" (sorry for spelling)

Good news, I think. But, I'll need your help
I tried first, w/ plain old DOS box.., then I tried same cmd-line param w/
my GUI, and both worked w/ same results but I need your help.

I need a working MPEG-2 mencoder script (not .BAT) that you would normally
feed to mencoder (via command-line) !!

-vhelp
#107
02-17-2004, 06:50 PM
 Hydeus Free Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Omicron Persei 8 Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Once again, I don't think I fully understand you What is difference betwen cmd-line script and BAT file?
If none i sugest simple
Quote:
 mencoder -of mpeg -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg2video:vrc_minrate=300:vrc_maxrate=6000 :vbitrate=4000: "c:\in.avi" -o "c:\out.mpg"
... as always in one line.
It pops wit PTS errors (still don't know what are they), but it works and produces mpeg file.

Note for future: I'm from europe (also RDS, Incredible, and few others), so by now it's almost 1am, and don't be angry on us when we didn't answer yours questions
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#108
02-17-2004, 06:55 PM
 vhelp Free Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,009 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi rds, Hydeus, and others

Basically, all I need is a tipicle mencoder script that you would feed to it,
in dos cmd-line mode. Like the one you posted on the first page of:
* Mencoder for Windows

That one is not working I need one that truely works for the following:

Some notes...

* AVI source ( ie, my .avi source is huffy, and I named it "5.avi" )
* Output sourcename (ie, mine is 5_encode.avi)
* Audio: that's a good question. Doesn't mencoder NOT do audio ??
...if so, then why does it ask for it, via an Audio not found error (-oac) ??

But, the script you posted above, (Hydeus) will do for now
Thanks for the help/support guys,

For now, I'm in testing/debuggin mode ( and a little :banghead: mode too)
-vhelp
#109
02-17-2004, 07:03 PM
 Hydeus Free Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Omicron Persei 8 Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by vhelp Basically, all I need is a tipicle mencoder script that you would feed to it, in dos cmd-line mode. Like the one you posted on the first page of: * Mencoder for Windows
We are in Mencoder for Windows thread

I think that we don't need mencoder audio encoding, cause BeSweet is a lot better choose.

Quote:
 Output sourcename (ie, mine is 5_encode.avi)

You mean output filename 5_encode.mpg

PS: Read the note in my previous post, while my bed, my pillow, and my coverlet are looking at me with very sleepy eyes
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#110
02-17-2004, 07:04 PM
 rds_correia Free Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chinese Democracy starts now! Posts: 2,563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey vhelp,
Anything u need buddy. You name it!
Code:
mencoder -of mpeg -nosound -ovc lavc -lavcopts aspect=1.3333:vmax_b_frames=2:
vcodec=mpeg2video:intra_matrix=8,9,12,22,26,27,29,34,9,10,14,26,27,29,34,37,12,14,18,27,29,34,37,
38,22,26,27,31,36,37,38,40,26,27,29,36,39,38,40,48,27,29,34,37,38,40,48,58,29,34,37,38,40,48,58,69,
34,37,38,40,48,58,69,79:inter_matrix=16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,20,22,24,26,28,
30,32,34,22,24,26,30,32,32,34,36,24,26,28,32,34,34,36,38,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,28,30,32,34,36,38,
42,42,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44:mbd=2:vrc_minrate=300:vrc_maxrate=4000:vbitrate=3000:
vrc_buf_size=1835:keyint=15 c:\video\mplayer\bttf.avi -o c:\video\mplayer\encoded.mpg
Now Hydeus this one is working because it has the vbv set to vrc_buf_size=1835.
Remember DVD vbv buff should be 224. So 224*1024*8/1000=1835,008
Also note that this one final average bitrate is ~3000
Cheers
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Rui
#111
02-17-2004, 07:10 PM
 Hydeus Free Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Omicron Persei 8 Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes VBV is very needed
I was posting only simple non-effective script.

Ok. For today I hade enough.
Good night
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#112
02-17-2004, 07:18 PM
 vhelp Free Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,009 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
@ rds, Hydeus, and others..

Thanks. Yes, I ment *.MPG file. Actually, I was really meaning *.m2v because
I'm after creating MPEG-2 source source
And, the more script samples, the better my chances w/ bebuggin things
out w/out having to post more dumb question. Thanks again guys.

Yes, if you're tired, that fine. Go ta bed then.
-vhelp
#113
02-17-2004, 08:36 PM
 vhelp Free Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,009 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
UPDATE !!

BiNGo !!

It's working. (using CMD.EXE) but I haven't tried it with the Matrix. That's
going to be my next "scary" endeavor

Still needs some work. But, I have some questions. Maybe I'm doing things
correctly. But, I gotta be sure

Shortly, I will be skinning some control in my GUI for those "common" commands
(or params) use mostly. I'm in thinking mode hmm...

Lots more testing to do w/ mencoder (under Windows 98 anyways) but so
far, things are finally looking up. 72 hours plus, working/debuggin this tight-ass

Some notes/questions ...

* After I create my 5.m2v MPEG-2 file, vdubMOD, PowerDVD will not open it.
* WinDVD will, but will hickup like crazy.
* dvd2ave opens it like a charm and plays it very smoothly.

Please let me know, if there is proper way of MUXing this to "normal" MPEG-2
source files.
However, it could be that I'm not using the proper param(s) to create a "normal"
MPEG-2 source file. You help will be needed in this area, please.

Thanks for all the support guys,
-vhelp
#114
02-17-2004, 09:55 PM
 Amenophis Free Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by vhelp Some notes/questions ... * After I create my 5.m2v MPEG-2 file, vdubMOD, PowerDVD will not open it. * WinDVD will, but will hickup like crazy. * dvd2ave opens it like a charm and plays it very smoothly. Please let me know, if there is proper way of MUXing this to "normal" MPEG-2 source files. However, it could be that I'm not using the proper param(s) to create a "normal" MPEG-2 source file. You help will be needed in this area, please. Thanks for all the support guys, -vhelp
which application did u use for demuxing the m2v stream? mplayer has problems with demuxing files >2GB, i prefer bbdmux for doing this. unfortunately mencoder can only output mpg files (even if you may call them *.m2v)
#115
02-17-2004, 10:00 PM
 vhelp Free Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,009 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi Amenophis ... ( I like name, sounds Greek )

Anyways..

Yeah, but the .m2v file is read as an MPEG-2 (according to dvd2avi) Also,
DVD Patcher reads it in w/ no problems. Unfortunately, this time around,
(unlike ffVFW encoded *.m2v files) even though I perform a "patch" on this,
it still means nothing to PowerDVD/WinDVD. PDVD will not open, while WDVD will
but wiith some 'zee'ness

I'm wondering is mencoder creating an mpeg wrapper (avi wrapper) ???

-vhelp
#116
02-18-2004, 02:00 AM
 vhelp Free Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,009 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
#2 - UPDATE !!

Guys, another BINGO

Last param script for mencoder, that rds posted, works
After tweaking around, I finally got it to work. W98 user cannot work the
script inside a dos box, nor can they use it inside a W98 command.com
dos box either, due to W98 dos limitations/restrictions.

However, CMD.EXE (that rds posted, from reactOS [now defunkted]) is he
only dos simulator that seems to work w/ mencoder and it's LOOONGGG
and STRAAAAAAAN param scripts.
.
.
However, there seems to be a bug somewheres, because CMD.EXE is crashing
out (at the end of the encode) although, the final encoded .m2v file is in tacked !!

Maybe there is another DOS simulator ??

Well, so far, ..making progress
Good night.
-vhelp
#117
02-18-2004, 02:52 AM
 rds_correia Free Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chinese Democracy starts now! Posts: 2,563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi vhelp,
Great news buddy.
It seams you finally found your way.
I no time you will be going :banghead: trying to understand how to restrain bitrate instead
of fiddling around with the command prompt that is not in a mood to receive all your arguments.
Along with it we will have your mencoder GUI to play around
Anyway let me tell you a couple of things that I've understood in the last couple of days.
An good looking encoded movie means nothing if it can't be played on a standalone (popular wisdom ).
So we need to be sure we allways set vbv buffer and GOP size whenever we try a different approach.
That's why I really don't like ffvfw too much these days.
So in mencoder you have to set "vrc_buf_size=..." and "keyint=...".
Where "vrc_buf_size" should be set to 328 for VCD, 918 for SVCD or 1835 for KDVD.
And "keyint" should be set to 24 for KVCD and 15(PAL)/18(NTSC) for KDVD.
Though I'm not 100% sure if PAL KVCD should be set to 24 or 25...maybe one of you guys can correct me if I'm wrong.
Also always disable sound ( -nosound) in mencoder. If we're going to keep using HeadAC3he
and Besweet then there's just no point in letting it encode the sound too.
Hope I helped.
PS-Try searching for rxvt port or bash port to replace reactos.
Cheers
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Rui
#118
02-18-2004, 05:14 AM
 Hydeus Free Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Omicron Persei 8 Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
For DVD GOP is 15/18 and AFAIK the same values are for (S)VCD (by the book). GOP 24 is already modified by Kwag, cause standalones eats this type of modification (only fo (S)VCD). I do compresion (under ffvfw) with GOP set to 100 , but encoder never goes to this value, because it places I-frame at every sceen change, so in real it becomes ~50, and this type of films are played without any problems (I doo test on very new machine, don't know how this will works with old machines).
But for MPEG2 DVD, GOP must be 15/18, while sandalone will not work with other settings
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#119
02-18-2004, 06:42 AM
 Hydeus Free Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Omicron Persei 8 Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey vHelp, I think that you have concurent in mencoder GUI development, in doom9 forum.
There is thread CCE vs FFVFW (where I'm also intrested), and Amnon82 (creator of COCOC: process to backup DVD with ffvfw) have also idea to create mencoder GUI under Delphi This is just a very fresh idea (this morning), and I'm wonder what concept he will propose. You're intested
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#120
02-19-2004, 04:36 PM
 Hydeus Free Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Omicron Persei 8 Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Nothing intresting. This GUI looks almost exactly like qulmencoder (I'm wonder why ... ... maybe it has something to do with this "Avalon" sing under about button ) If nothing new is produced, why to produce it at all ?

And what is your progress vHelp ?
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