Quantcast What is the Right Way to Create an Anamorphic KDVD? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
01-20-2004, 09:20 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Hi everybody.

I don't know how many minutes (widescreen material) you guys fit on one DVD-R. Currently I'm trying to cram 3 movies (all in all 327 min.) onto one, with a 384kb AC3 for each movie. Quality is poor at 720x576. I had a CQ of 56 as I recall. Is 327 min. widescreen just too much to put on 1 DVD-R at that resolution?
One movie is pretty high action, the other two are medium to low action.

Also what is the right way to create an Anamorphic KDVD? I know it was discussed before, but whenever I set Input=16:9 and Output=16:9 PowerDVD squishes it down (faces are not egg-headed but squished together horizontally) except when I UNcheck keep AR. Will that look right in my Standalone?
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  #2  
01-20-2004, 09:35 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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The anamorph input and anamorph output handling will be done in your avisynth script only!

So you still end up with a "center" setting in TmpgEnc just a encoding at "16:9" added in the encoder options of TmpgEnc (which only sets the flag to the encoded stream). Source is just 1:1 as its a avs input.

Thats all.

According to Quality:

- Try to lower your AC3s to 256kbit for example - just test it.

- Change to 704x576

- A CQ of 56 at full resolution (704/720x576) is not that bad (ok, not good enough ) as it will be not horizont. resized that much like 528x576 or even 480x576.

- Low action as you see it as a whole in the movie doesn't have to mean something. Bitrate peaks also will be happen at scenes where for your "interpretation" is no action Diamond sparcles, ... also a romantic "interpreted" calm scene where raindrops fall onto a watersurface the bitrate will rise up very much.




Inc.
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  #3  
01-20-2004, 11:03 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
Source is just 1:1 as its a avs input.
I wil say more "encoding a 16:9 source into a 16:9 target" is _exactly the same_ to do "4:3 source in 4:3 format".

Remember what is the definition of "anamorphic" : a 16:9 image stetched to fit in a 4:3 container.

You can verify that under movie stacker : load a source that is anamorphic, check the "anamorphic" box for the destination and look at the resizing parameters Moviestacker gives. Then uncheck BOTH anamorphic boxes (source and target). See the resizing parameters again... they are identical !
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01-20-2004, 01:56 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Yep!

Thats what I meant, no size "maipulation" done in TmpgEnc.
All these in and iff output parameters do have their sense primary when TmpgEnc does the Resizing. But we don't do that, thats also why we love avisynth.
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  #5  
01-22-2004, 09:56 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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I'll give it a try, thanks for your help!
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01-23-2004, 10:31 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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How would you guys do predicition for 3 movies on one DVD-R? Right now I'm putting all 3 d2v files into one AVS script and let it predict. The problem is that those sources are of very different quality. One is very clean and high quality, the other one is quiet noisy. So it's not a good idea to treat all three sources with one AVS script. What way is there that you can specify the filters/resizing parameters etc. for each source seperately but in ONE AVS script?

Another questions I have is to use IfoEdit to get the correct GOP structure of the original DVD because I'd like to have exact chapterpoints since DVDLab does support ChapterXtractor. However, TMPGEnc doesn't seem to recognise the .txt file IfoEdit gives me. When I load it in TMPGEnc's Force Picture Type setting, no GOP structure appears, so i guess I have done something wrong. I recall there are several different presets you can save your .txt file as. Which one is the right one for TMPGEnc?
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01-23-2004, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
How would you guys do predicition for 3 movies on one DVD-R? Right now I'm putting all 3 d2v files into one AVS script and let it predict. The problem is that those sources are of very different quality. One is very clean and high quality, the other one is quiet noisy. So it's not a good idea to treat all three sources with one AVS script. What way is there that you can specify the filters/resizing parameters etc. for each source seperately but in ONE AVS script?
All depend on what you are using for encoding.

With TMPGENC, you surely use CQMatic for predicting and there is a setting where you specify the number of stream on the media. You just have to indicate 3 there, choose DVD are target medium, and CQMatic will do a prediction for a target size of 1/3 of DVD.

If you use VMesquite method and CCE, just divide 4.37/3 and use this calue as targeted size
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01-23-2004, 11:38 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Hi all:
Jellygoose wrote:
Quote:
What way is there that you can specify the filters/resizing parameters etc. for each source seperately but in ONE AVS script?
Well, sure there are better methods out there. This is the method I use:
Code:
Mpeg2Source("D:\film1.d2v")
......filters1&resize1...........
a=Limiter()
Mpeg2Source("D:\film2.d2v")
......filters2&resize2...........
b=Limiter()
return a+b
You can apply two different set of filters, according to your sources. But, the CQ will be the same for both films.
This works for me.
Tells us if does work for you.
Cheers
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  #9  
01-23-2004, 11:40 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Jell,

you should determine clips in your avs so every source gets its own filtering, like

a=mpeg2source("xxxxx.d2v")
a=a.Denoiseheavy here ()
a=a.Resize here ()
#
b=mpeg2source("yyyyy.d2v")
b=b.Denoiseheavy light ()
b=b.Resize here ()
#
c=mpeg2source("zzzzzz.d2v")
c=c.Denoiseheavy medium ()
c=c.Resize here ()
#
return a+b+c

ok, but all streams have to have same...

... colorspace (I think you do just deal with mpeg sources and so they all do have 4:2:0 YV12)
... FPS (... here the same, as your sources could all be 25 FPS)
... Endsize after resizing! (ok, all should be 704x576 not imortand if encoding 1 anamorph afterwards and 2 not)

EDIT: Our Digitall.Doc was más rapido! :)

PS: I use this also to apply at the beginning of all may captures one of my Movie-Company Intros ... as I finally got a nice collection. Cause many broadcasts do got that animated logo, when the logo flys in or something (like Pro7 = Interlaced! *würg* horizontal animation)

Second:
If using IfoEdits txt file, you only need to let it give you the "I"Frame Timestamps! When loading that txt into TmpgEncs Force Picture Type settings, it "could" be that it takes a long time! So your machine did NOT bomb!
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01-23-2004, 11:45 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Hey incredible:
I was faster (first time!) , but maybe you're far accurate.
Don't think that makes a difference, but there's no need to use a=a. ... each time (look my code). But in the end, I think we said both the same.
Quote:
ok, but all streams have to have same...

... colorspace
... FPS
... Endsize after resizing!
Yep, you're right, and I forgot to say that .
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  #11  
01-23-2004, 11:52 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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But please don't use that limiter() as it first treads the luminance at its ends very bad and second if using standard KVCD Template settings, this will be done before encoding via tmpgEnc!
I got bad experiences with limiter
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01-25-2004, 09:29 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Ok, one more question concerning Anamorphic Streams... Please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere.

When I have a 16:9 Display DVD (as most DVDs are right?), and I load it in Moviestacker "Anamorphic" box is automatically checked, meaning that the film IS coded with egg-heads, and that there's a flag in the stream that tells the DVD player to squish the video horizontally, so that it is displayed as 16:9 (no more egg-heads) on TV right?
So when I copy that DVD to KDVD I have two options.

First one is Input=Output AR, meaning that I encode it too as an Anamorphic stream. (no resizing or add borders, Input= 1:1 (avs) Output=16:9 Video Arrange=center) With that in Tmpgenc's preview screen, when resized to 352x240 (standard) the picture would look horizontally stretched (egg-heads), as the stream is actually encoded just so, and only the 16:9 flag in it tells the DVD player to display it correctly.

Second Option, to encode as Non-Anamorphic and 4:3 display flag. That would give the correct AR with DVD Players and 4:3 TVs. It would also save LOTS of space on the DVD, since a lot less film-pixel is encoded.

Now how would such a stream would look on a 16:9 TV?
What are the advantages encoding Anamorphic? Why would you code a movie with egg-heads, and tell the player to squish it down? It doesn't make sense to me. Are there more details present?
Can someone enlighten me?
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01-25-2004, 09:40 AM
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1. 352x240 = always non-anamorph! as its not supported at that size

2. http://www.widescreen.org/widescreen.shtml

Also a nice flash animation where they show how does 4:3 look at 16:9 tv sets.

Means

a) a little 4:3 moviearea within the 16:9 and borders left & right added.

b) that 4:3 movie zoomed so it fits in its effectively movietreatment the total of 16:9

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01-25-2004, 12:18 PM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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with 352x240, I was talking about the size of the preview window in TMPGEnc. I know that Anamorphic is only supported by DVD resolutions, such as 720x576/704x576...

Okay, I get the flash, totally...

However, it still does not make sense to me. so once more, sorry for being stupid. Why would I encode as Anamorphic at all? Why wouldn't I just resize to 16:9 image with 4:3 display? It makes no sense to me that DVDs that are really 16:9 are encoded as Anamorphic (stretched to egg-heads). Why is that so?
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01-25-2004, 12:23 PM
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Because of a full anamorph vertical 576/480 resolution on a 16:9 tv set!
The quality is better than doing just a zoom to fit a 4:3 video to a WHOLE 16:9 Tv set width Proportionaly.

Because anamorphic videos will be stretched in their WIDTH to 1024x576 on a 16:9 Tv set. Means only be scaled in their width but not in their height. And at non-anamoprph 4:3 Streams you have to scale the width AND the hight (to fit proportional the complete width of a 16:9 Tv set)! And as the height resolution of a stream is most responsable for sharpness on a TV this makes sense.

But that advantage stands very much in relation to the more bitrate you need. So in case of anamorph encodings we do need more bitrate to enjoy that advantage
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01-25-2004, 03:33 PM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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That's exactly what I mean. Do you think it's worth to encode Anamorphic at all?
Would a 4:3 stream be stretched to fit in width and height automatically when displayed on a 16:9 tv?
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01-25-2004, 03:49 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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A 4:3 stream is treated the same way as a 4:3 TV brodcast program. You have to use a zoom mode to fit the 16:9 entirely.
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01-25-2004, 04:02 PM
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Ok, i decided to delete this post - - too much info not needed
-vhelp
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01-25-2004, 04:29 PM
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Update.. no longer available
-vhelp
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  #20  
01-25-2004, 05:40 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
That's exactly what I mean. Do you think it's worth to encode Anamorphic at all?
Well its all a thing of space/bitrate that is needed, so IF you see an anamorph stream on a 1&:9 TVset you will recognise the quality.
Quote:
Would a 4:3 stream be stretched to fit in width and height automatically when displayed on a 16:9 tv?
Its a matter of settings, as almost every 16:9 TVset gots a zoom option to compensate this.
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