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-   -   FFMPEG: Ffvfw settings to create KDVDs and KVCDs (http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/encode/8019-ffmpeg-ffvfw-settings.html)

kwag 02-03-2004 03:16 PM

ffvfw settings to create KDVDs and KVCDs
 
First of all, if you don't have the KVCD "Notch" Matrix in ffvfw format, download it here: http://www.kvcd.net/kvcd-matrix-for-ffvfw.qmatrix

This first screenshot shows the settings to be used for making a KDVD:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2004/02/10.jpg

This second screenshot is for making a KVCD:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2004/02/11.jpg

All the following screenshots are common to both KVCD and KDVD.
Please note the field in red, which I left empty, so you fill in the correct value from the previous two screenshots, depending if you want to do a KVCD or a KDVD:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2004/02/12.jpg
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2004/02/13.jpg
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2004/02/14.jpg
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2004/02/15.jpg
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2004/02/16.jpg

The following optional screenshots, are to insert noise into the encoding. Use it to enhance visual quality, if the material requires it:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2004/02/17.jpg
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2004/02/18.jpg

To do file prediction, you change the values of "Min quantizer" and Max quantizer". The higher the value (up to 31), the lower the file size.

Enjoy,
-kwag

rds_correia 02-03-2004 03:39 PM

Hi Kwag,
Just one question about GOP.
Since I live in PAL I should use GOP size 15 for KDVD and GOP size 24 for KVCD, right?
So, should I change my settings from "Minimux I Frame Interval 18" to 15 or I could just try it
with 18 since most standalones will still play it?
I mean, does it affect your KB/S calculations if I change it from 18 to 15?
Thanks, man.
I don't know what we would do without you around :)

kwag 02-03-2004 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds_correia
Hi Kwag,
Just one question about GOP.
Since I live in PAL I should use GOP size 15 for KDVD and GOP size 24 for KVCD, right?

Yes. The settings are for NTSC, so make the appropiate changes.
Quote:

So, should I change my settings from "Minimux I Frame Interval 18" to 15 or I could just try it
with 18 since most standalones will still play it?
Change it.
Quote:

I mean, does it affect your KB/S calculations if I change it from 18 to 15?
No, I don't think so, but please try it, and then drag your mpeg over to bitrate viewer. You should see a VBV size of "20" for a KVCD and "112" for a KDVD.
Quote:

Thanks, man.
I don't know what we would do without you around :)
:lol:

-kwag

Hydeus 02-03-2004 04:40 PM

@Kwag
How did you discover that bitrate values are right :?: I mean, they are like completly from outer space :lol: why not few bits less or more ?

And secondary, did you try postprocessing mode in ffdshow ? It produces a litle blured image, but it cuts file size of about 10%

digitall.doc 02-03-2004 04:47 PM

Kwag:
you advise to change the values of "Min quantizer" and Max quantizer" to adjust the final file size: the bigger the number, the smaller the file. Do we increase both numbers at the same time (2:2 change to 3:3 and then 4:4 etc)?. Or first the Min quantizer?. And, do we have to change I, P and B Min/Max quantizers at the same time, or first I,...?.
Sorry, maybe too obvious questions.

... and, YES, I completely agree with rds_correia... YOU THE MAN :lol:
:wink:

digitall.doc 02-03-2004 04:50 PM

:oops: sorry, too late.
I read your answer in the loong thread, to change ALL quantizers at the same time.
Isn't it?. Make me know if understood you wrong.

kwag 02-03-2004 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydeus
@Kwag
How did you discover that bitrate values are right :?: I mean, they are like completly from outer space :lol: why not few bits less or more ?

By accident :!:
I was playing with the bitrate value, and I set it down to 1 by error, and when I started to encode, Vdub exploded. So I did a test with a value of about 32, and encoded a clip. Then I increased to 10000 and did another clip. After comparing the differences in bitrate viewer, I noticed the difference in VBV. So I did a simple math to scale the wanted VBV size, and BINGO, right on target :lol:
Quote:


And secondary, did you try postprocessing mode in ffdshow ? It produces a litle blured image, but it cuts file size of about 10%
Haven't tried it yet, but it would be about the same as using AviSynth, because most filters are already built-in.

-kwag

kwag 02-03-2004 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitall.doc
:oops: sorry, too late.
I read your answer in the loong thread, to change ALL quantizers at the same time.
Isn't it?. Make me know if understood you wrong.

You are correct :D
Change all values at the same time ;)

-kwag

Hydeus 02-03-2004 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag
You can actually go up to 48KB ( a VBV value of 24 for KVCDs and VCDs ) which should be optimal.

... so , any corrections to the bitrate value for KVCD?
I know that this is from parallel thread, but IMO it's related to this thread.

kwag 02-03-2004 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydeus
Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag
You can actually go up to 48KB ( a VBV value of 24 for KVCDs and VCDs ) which should be optimal.

... so , any corrections to the bitrate value for KVCD?
I know that this is from parallel thread, but IMO it's related to this thread.

I should have said "Optimal range" :)
The "Standard" value is 40KB, which diplays "20" in Bitrate Viewer.
So first try the values I posted, and tweak from 20 to 24 ( 40KB to 48KB ).

-kwag

digitall.doc 02-03-2004 05:21 PM

... sorry me if being too "asking", but I'm so excited with so fast improvements in this nice codec... anyway, I think, looking at the "visits" numbers of these threads, I'm not the only one excited around here :lol: :lol: .
My question: any recommendation about scripting?. Are we using MA script for KVCD?, also for KDVD, or just resize?. In the other thread we talked about using blockbuster instead ffdshow noise. Incredible recommended (for KDVD I think) this parameters:
Code:

Blockbuster(method="noise",detail_min=1,detail_max=20,variance=1.0,seed=4326)
And we have also talked about using DCT filter.
Maybe it's still to early to talk about scripting, when we are still trying to adjust the codec.

digitall.doc 02-03-2004 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag
The "Standard" value is 40KB, which diplays "20" in Bitrate Viewer.
So first try the values I posted, and tweak from 20 to 24 ( 40KB to 48KB ).

I'm lost, which values are you talking about?, where are we to set them?.

Hydeus 02-03-2004 05:27 PM

For 24 set 1383 in bitrate. Do you agree Kwag? This is what BV displays. Is this affect a lot comlpiance with standalones ?

Dialhot 02-03-2004 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:

So, should I change my settings from "Minimux I Frame Interval 18" to 15 or I could just try it
with 18 since most standalones will still play it?
Change it.

No, don't change, try !
I did all my KDVD till now with GOP=25 and all my three players play it very well.

kwag 02-03-2004 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitall.doc
Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag
The "Standard" value is 40KB, which diplays "20" in Bitrate Viewer.
So first try the values I posted, and tweak from 20 to 24 ( 40KB to 48KB ) for KVCDs or VCDs.

I'm lost, which values are you talking about?, where are we to set them?.

Look at the top of this thread, where the value of CBR is set to 1147, which creates a VBV size of 20 (40KB).
So if you want a value of 48KB, do this:

(1147 / 20) * 24 = 1376.4

So round it to 1376 and that will give you a new VBV buffer size of 48KB (displayed as 24 in BitRate Viewer)

-kwag

Jellygoose 02-03-2004 05:43 PM

Wow, great kwag!

One question. If we change min. and max. quantization parameters at the same time, wouldn't that mean that each scene (slow and action) would be encoded with the exact same quantisizer? :roll:
Is that something we want? wouldn't it be way cooler to encode with a variable quantisizer? Just a thought...

btw: your samples actually speak for themselves. just curious though! :mrgreen:

kwag 02-03-2004 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellygoose
Wow, great kwag!

One question. If we change min. and max. quantization parameters at the same time, wouldn't that mean that each scene (slow and action) would be encoded with the exact same quantisizer? :roll:
Is that something we want? wouldn't it be way cooler to encode with a variable quantisizer? Just a thought...

Actually we want to encode with constant quantization, variable bitrate ( or constant quality/variable bitrate, if you want to see it that way :) )
Quote:


btw: your samples actually speak for themselves. just curious though! :mrgreen:
:mrgreen:

-kwag

Dialhot 02-03-2004 06:02 PM

I definitly have a problem with this codec :!:

All settings set as on the snapshots above (except for max quantizer in macrobloc that I can't change and is set to 31 and not 2 like on the snap).

:arrow: My Q curve it like a saw blade ! Values vary constantly from 0 to 2. The picture is very bad compared to the same sample made with CCE (and the file size is exactly the same) : tiny mosquito noise around edges and lot blocks in dark scenes (even with noise in ffvfw or in the script).

BTW, the sample was 53sec for a 90 min movie that is 1% sample. The file size is 16 Mb. So the final movie will be 1.6 GB without audio. ONLY TWO 90 MIN MOVIE ON THE DVD !

I drop this codec since the "Q curve" shape is not solved.

If someone have an idea...

kwag 02-03-2004 06:08 PM

Hi Phil,

Go to "Masking" option, and select "Luminance masking" and "Normalize adaptive quantization".
Now go back to "Quantization", and you can set Macroblocks to 2.
Then go back and deselect "Masking" options ;)

-kwag

Anerboda 02-03-2004 06:12 PM

Will this affect filesize or quality??

Anerboda


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