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  #121  
02-26-2004, 06:13 PM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcellus
Well, I ended up with the value of 4 because that way I noticed that the quantization stays lower at the same bitrate setting (at least in my tests). When I increased the B value even more the quantization goes even lower but the image tends to be uglyer and messed-up.
Ok.
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Originally Posted by marcellus
I noticed myself the speed increase with less B frames and I explain it by the fact that probably the algorithm to produce a B frame is more CPU intensive than for a P frame.
Yes it is, because this type of frames are build from previous and next frame so this is like "two step forward one step backward" process.
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  #122  
02-26-2004, 07:41 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydeus
While I have not my own standalone, I can't test this, but I know that this file is still incompliant "mutant" file
Not necessarily, because I'm almost positive that when you play on a standalone, the mpeg decoders just read the first header, and set up the decoding for the rest of the material.
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I'm trying to find pattern of the header. If you already know this, tell me, so I won't be inventing wheel for second time
The sequence header is a 32 bit field, hexadecimal 000001B3
After that, you have two 14 bit fields, which identify the horizontal size and one for the vertical size.
Next you have one 8 bit field, where the high nibble (4 most significant bits) are the aspect ratio information, and the low nibble is the frame rate code.
Next a 18 bit field, which is the bitrate value.
Next is a one bit field, the marker bit, which is always set to 1.
And the next field, the one we want, is the VBV biffer size value, which is 10 bits.
So to put it in English words , the byte offset (counting from 0 ) after the sequence header, the least significant 4 bits of byte offset 6 and the 8 bits of byte offset 7, is where the VBV value is stored.
Hope you got all of that
Quote:

NOTE
VBV patcher probably won't work with TMPG video files, while TMPG adds header of its own "encoded by TMPGEnc (ver. xxxxxx)".
Nope. Any MPEG stream can be "signed"( AKA inserting comments ), but that is in a "System Video + Audio" and not on an elementary stream, such as a .m2v. So you could use VBVPatcher with TMPEG files too.
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Maybe this header is no problem, and for sure we don't need to use this tool for TMPEG files, but keep that in mind.
That's right, there's no need
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EDIT: I also want to be a moderator
One day

-kwag
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  #123  
02-26-2004, 10:47 PM
poerschr poerschr is offline
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Not necessarily, because I'm almost positive that when you play on a standalone, the mpeg decoders just read the first header, and set up the decoding for the rest of the material.
Yea, that is another reason why i chose a wierd resolution to encode my earlier test..I knew that it could be easily patched to a standard resolution...the same applies to VBV as well...
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  #124  
02-26-2004, 11:22 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poerschr
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Not necessarily, because I'm almost positive that when you play on a standalone, the mpeg decoders just read the first header, and set up the decoding for the rest of the material.
Yea, that is another reason why i chose a wierd resolution to encode my earlier test..I knew that it could be easily patched to a standard resolution...the same applies to VBV as well...
No, it's not the same principle
It's not the same to "pre-load" the parameters from the first sequence header, than to "fool" the DVD player to think the complete video is X resolution, when in reality it's going to be Y resolution.
So that trick just won't work on many players. I've already experienced that, and chances are that if you make an MPEG at 528x480 (patched to 704x480 or 720x480 ), it will work on some, but not all players.
The VBV issue is another story. Once the MPEG decoder sets it's internal buffer to the specified size on the header, it will have enough buffer space to process the data, basically "branding" the mpeg file to the correct requirements.

-kwag
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  #125  
02-27-2004, 01:39 AM
poerschr poerschr is offline
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I finished some testing....Here is a jpeg to see the results...

http://rstuff.home.texas.net/testing.jpg

I think the results are a good start - I would like to get some more input on the settings for the second pass - they are obviously based upon Xvid..

I actually tried two Xvid stat readers - on which was from Nitrogen - it read the file correctly, (no crashes) but it only returned the number of frames in the stream.....I haven't done Xvid encoding in a long time..I am a bit rusty...

Quote:
So that trick just won't work on many players.
yea, patching the file works fine for me...I think that my Malata is not such a bad player afterall - just maybe the drive is garbage (it will not read store bought - pressed CDs!!!) - I am curious if anyone has ever switched out the drive of their DVD player with a better one....just curious..
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  #126  
02-27-2004, 01:44 AM
poerschr poerschr is offline
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ah, everybody is sleeping like a baby in the old country....
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  #127  
02-27-2004, 02:55 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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At 6:44am I wasn't. But I was...a bit occupied to be here posting with you
Again I wish we all were in the same timezone
At lunch time guys in New York are get off bed...
This way we loose many posting time
C ya at lunch time
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  #128  
02-27-2004, 04:56 AM
marcellus marcellus is offline
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Nice screenhots poerschr. I am, myself, used to judge the quality of an encoding on tv screen, not by static images but I guess they look pretty good. It shows here and there some blocks but , anyway ...
How they look on your tv?
As maybe many people noticed already it's unlikely to have a straight Q line with second pass
bye
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  #129  
02-27-2004, 05:04 AM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
One day


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwag
Hope you got all of that
Less or more Great to hear that I don't have to dig this by my self

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydeus
While I have not my own standalone, I can't test this, but I know that this file is still incompliant "mutant" file
Not necessarily, because I'm almost positive that when you play on a standalone, the mpeg decoders just read the first header, and set up the decoding for the rest of the material.
For sure (?) If it's the way that standalones will eat movies. that'g great. I already could use hexedit for VBV repair :banghead:
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  #130  
02-27-2004, 07:32 AM
marcellus marcellus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Not necessarily, because I'm almost positive that when you play on a standalone, the mpeg decoders just read the first header, and set up the decoding for the rest of the material.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
It's not the same to "pre-load" the parameters from the first sequence header, than to "fool" the DVD player to think the complete video is X resolution, when in reality it's going to be Y resolution.
So that trick just won't work on many players. I've already experienced that, and chances are that if you make an MPEG at 528x480 (patched to 704x480 or 720x480 ), it will work on some, but not all players.
The VBV issue is another story. Once the MPEG decoder sets it's internal buffer to the specified size on the header, it will have enough buffer space to process the data, basically "branding" the mpeg file to the correct requirements.
Well, maybe I'm talking about something else here but when I first started ever to make KVCD's, last summer, using tmpegenc, at the first attempts my player weren't able to do any fast forward, it messed up the image with green blocks after a fast forward even though it started to play the movie corectly. I finally managed to find the problem in the setting of 0 for "Output interval of sequence header " and I changed to 1. Since then I never had such a problem. So I guess my player needs to read the header at every GOP to play corectly.
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  #131  
02-27-2004, 07:59 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcellus
Well, maybe I'm talking about something else here but when I first started ever to make KVCD's, last summer, using tmpegenc, at the first attempts my player weren't able to do any fast forward, it messed up the image with green blocks after a fast forward even though it started to play the movie corectly. I finally managed to find the problem in the setting of 0 for "Output interval of sequence header " and I changed to 1. Since then I never had such a problem. So I guess my player needs to read the header at every GOP to play corectly.
bye
That's true, but probably only for VCD/SVCD playback.
Have you tried a DVD(KDVD) made with TMPEG on your player with the value set to 0

-kwag
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  #132  
02-27-2004, 08:45 AM
marcellus marcellus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcellus
Well, maybe I'm talking about something else here but when I first started ever to make KVCD's, last summer, using tmpegenc, at the first attempts my player weren't able to do any fast forward, it messed up the image with green blocks after a fast forward even though it started to play the movie corectly. I finally managed to find the problem in the setting of 0 for "Output interval of sequence header " and I changed to 1. Since then I never had such a problem. So I guess my player needs to read the header at every GOP to play corectly.
bye
That's true, but probably only for VCD/SVCD playback.
Have you tried a DVD(KDVD) made with TMPEG on your player with the value set to 0

-kwag
No, I don't have a DVD writer yet. (I assume I need one in order to make a KDVD)
marcellus
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  #133  
02-27-2004, 09:44 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcellus
No, I don't have a DVD writer yet. (I assume I need one in order to make a KDVD)
You can do mini-DVD that are DVD burnt on CD media.
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  #134  
02-27-2004, 10:54 AM
poerschr poerschr is offline
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Hey Phil, I thought that you would be happy that I used a French film for my testing???

All in all, the movie was a little dark...but since it was 100% digital, this took precidence....I am still curious if anyone has had some experience with Xvid and how we can tweak the settings..
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  #135  
02-27-2004, 11:39 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Originally Posted by poerschr
Hey Phil, I thought that you would be happy that I used a French film for my testing???
Hugh. Didn't noticed that. In fact I do not really read this thread, I just give soma glance at it to stay "up to date" in the discussion.

Quote:
I am still curious if anyone has had some experience with Xvid and how we can tweak the settings..
What do you mean ? Xvid as source ? Or as target ?

PS: note that Vidocq was almost completly digitaly rendered. None of the picture is 100% natural.
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  #136  
02-27-2004, 12:08 PM
marcellus marcellus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcellus
No, I don't have a DVD writer yet. (I assume I need one in order to make a KDVD)
You can do mini-DVD that are DVD burnt on CD media.

I surely learned something new today! Do you know a burning software able to do that trick?
Many thanks!
marcellus
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  #137  
02-27-2004, 12:12 PM
vmesquita vmesquita is offline
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@marcellus
The latest Nero version has a Mini-DVD option.
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  #138  
02-27-2004, 12:23 PM
marcellus marcellus is offline
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@vmesquita

thanks a lot
marcellus
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  #139  
02-27-2004, 01:21 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hya,
Yep, I started my tests on KDVD with mini(K)DVD using Nero.
Now I also use ImgTool along with DVDDecrypter.
ImgTool needs to know where the VOBs are and it builds the image to be burnt with DVDDecrypter.
Although I sense that maybe Nero is more accurate than these two, both are freeware .
Cheers
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  #140  
02-27-2004, 03:39 PM
poerschr poerschr is offline
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Quote:
What do you mean ? Xvid as source ? Or as target ?
I noticed that most of the settings on the second pass are very similar (if not exact) to an early build of Xvid...I thought that sence Xvid was far more testing, we could play with the settings of Xvid to improve the second pass in ffvfw (mpeg)...however, I am a bit rusty in Xvid, I did a few encodings about a year ago, and would like some help from someone how has some more experience...for example. what curve aggression is best, I chose medium - linear becasue it would provide a nice balance between high and low bitrate scenes...but maybe high is better for more compression??? also, if I frames are busted by 10% will this make a better encoding, or does it come as too much of a cost to the P frames....

I thought that maybe an Xvid stats reader might provide some help...but, I testing the one made by nitrogen, it would read the file correctly, but would only return the number of fames in the stream...I am still searching for something that might help....but, a tweaked stats reader for ffvfw would be great...

also, I wanted to ask...I just received a copy of some video dubbed on two crappy VCRs (I hate it, but it is the only option)...most of the video is static scenes that flicker alot, it seems to me that somehow the field order got reversed...has this ever happened to anyone on VCRs??
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