Quantcast Progressive vs Interlace - is this Video is Progressive? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
02-26-2004, 04:10 PM
rs008f rs008f is offline
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I have an 23.976 fps AVI video that is non-interlace and top field first, does this mean the video is progressive?
I have encoded it with CCE to MPEG-2 with Offset line 0.
When using pulldown.exe. do I need to use the options
-prog_seq p -prog_frames p
to mark the entire MPEG stream as progressive and mark each frame as progessive too? Or is only one of the options needed?
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  #2  
02-26-2004, 04:33 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs008f
I have an 23.976 fps AVI video that is non-interlace and top field first, does this mean the video is progressive?
There is no interlaced avi. So your file can't be interlaced

Quote:
I have encoded it with CCE to MPEG-2 with Offset line 0.
When using pulldown.exe. do I need to use the options
-prog_seq p -prog_frames p
to mark the entire MPEG stream as progressive and mark each frame as progessive too? Or is only one of the options needed?
Both a required.
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02-26-2004, 04:51 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
There is no interlaced avi. So your file can't be interlaced
Uops! Don't say that in general, .... ok, 23.976 Avis aren't interlaced ... and top field or bottom filed in this case do not matter as he got a FRAMEBASED stream (truly progressive) and not a FIELDBASED stream.
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02-26-2004, 05:33 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Divx supports interlacing ? Since when ?

But I aggree whith you, "avi" is not "divx" and there is surely some avi codec thatn can be interlaced.
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02-26-2004, 05:48 PM
rs008f rs008f is offline
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Maybe I should be more clear. I thought these days people would assume AVIs are MPEG-4 (Xvid,Divx,etc) My videos are either Divx or Xvid. So now I know Divx does not support interlacing but how about Xvid? I thought both are MPEG-4 and should generally behave the same way but I think I'm wrong.
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  #6  
02-26-2004, 05:54 PM
rs008f rs008f is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
There is no interlaced avi. So your file can't be interlaced ?
I just check my Xvid avi video with TMPGEnc. It says interlace, bottom field first, so I guess MPEG-4 codecs can be very different even though all of them are MPEG-4. Now I know Xvid supports interlacing and Divx does not. Is it all kinds of Divx (Divx3, OpenDivx, Divx5) though?
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02-26-2004, 06:11 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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I just check in the encoder settings and you're right, Xvid do support interlace.

TO see if your avi is interlaced or not there is only your eyes : open the file under vdub and drag the slidder. If you see a picture with combo effect, the file is interlaced.

But... 23.976 CAN'T be interlaced (as told by inc).

Note: yes, all Divx I know so far.
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02-26-2004, 06:16 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Watch out! Thats why I pointed that out above.
Yep, XVID supports interlaced mode. Mostly used in capturing purposes.
But do not ONLY trust your eyes according to combing in this case, also trust your eyes in case of chroma artefacts!
(but still I don't beleive that 23.976 comes interlaced!)

I also use XVID sometimes for capturing if movies will be broadcasted which will take 4h or more.

Well if capture or not, IF you got an "interlaced" mpeg4 which is in YV12 and that means 4:2:0 mega risky in case of wrong chroma upsampling! Cause the system does not know how to interprate an YV12 interlaced stream even the FourCC tells the system to decode using the same XVID codec.

Here you can see mega upsized (for explanation purposes) XVID interlaced AVI:



Do you see the chroma artefacts? Thats cause of wrong YV12 Interlaced chroma upsampling!

BUT you can fix that chroma issue by "interpolation" of the chroma by using Avisynth and a conversion to a diff colorspace like YUY2 interlaced.

ConverttoYUY2(interlaced=true)

which results in:



Less chroma artefacts but still not that interlaced chroma quality as compared to YUY2 (4:2:2) interlaced-mjpg or -HuffYUV.

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  #9  
02-26-2004, 06:19 PM
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Do you mean Xvid is Crap ?
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  #10  
02-26-2004, 06:22 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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XVID is "lovely"!!!

That example above is only the issue if source gets as interlaced OUT of that codec!

But in case of encoding progressive sources (as mostly used) .... a very very nice codec!

I wouldn't capture using that codec (sometimes) if it would be crap ... and btw its very fast as hell in case of full size PAL capts.



PS: Thats also an issue of bad quality Stand Alone Divx/XVID Players IF they don't know how to interprate the YV12 interlaced stream correctly when providing it to the TV set

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  #11  
02-26-2004, 06:29 PM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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I know that this is no matter at the moment, but DivX also supports interlacing, at least in early 5.x versions.
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02-26-2004, 06:31 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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If you can choose in Dvix early versions interlaced 4:2:2 ... GIMME THAT LINK TO THAT CODEC

Divx Pro supports also Interlaced as I got here that MEGA .pdf where everything on Divx 5.x is explained
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02-26-2004, 06:44 PM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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I thik I don't understad you You're agree or disagree with me
DivXpro (I alwas use pro adaware versions), supports interlacing, in early 5.x versions. At the time I have no DivX codec on-board, so I can't check the newest version.
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  #14  
02-26-2004, 06:46 PM
rs008f rs008f is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot

But... 23.976 CAN'T be interlaced (as told by inc).

Note: yes, all Divx I know so far.
FYI,
I just my Xvid video. It is 23.976 fps and it's interlace and bottom field first (according to TMPEnc).
I also check an OpenDivx video. It is 23.976 fps and it's interlace and bottom field first.
I guess there's more to it than meet's the eye.
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  #15  
02-26-2004, 08:56 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydeus
I know that this is no matter at the moment, but DivX also supports interlacing, at least in early 5.x versions.
Not at all !
In divx you can ask to the decoder to treat the source as progressive or to deinterlace it, but you ALWAYS encode in progressive.
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02-27-2004, 03:44 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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NEVER! Trust TmpgEnc and its automatic Fieldorder and Frame/Fieldbased Type recognisitions!!

If I use XVID in interlaced capturing mode EVERYTIME in real a TOP-FIELD FIRST streams comes out even if Avisynths Info() command tells me that I would deal with a BottomFieldFirst XVID Source! (and we don't know if you got a XVID capture or just a DVD source XVID backup)

You can check that by creating the following script:

Avisource("yourXVID.avi")
AssumeTFF()
Separatefields()


Now scroll through the video and IF the motion performs smooth you got a Topfieldfirst Stream. If its not smooth, just change AssumeTTF() to AssumeBFF() and do the test again if its then smooth you got a BottomFieldFirst Stream.

And also according to Progressive or interlaced. Even if you feed TmpEnc by a progressive d2v via Avisynth, TmpgEnc recognises an interlaced input which is a) wrong and b) would cause a wrong matrix values ordering when encoding afterwards.


BUT as we all know we are talking here about a 23.976 FPS source AND THEREs NO REASON THAT THIS STREAM SHOULD BE INTERLACED.

I don't know from where you got that XVID (and according to the rules in here I prevent not to ask) but even if it came out of a telecined 29.97 capture restored back to 23.976 also in such a case the orig progressive frames will be restored!
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02-27-2004, 04:33 AM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydeus
I know that this is no matter at the moment, but DivX also supports interlacing, at least in early 5.x versions.
Not at all !
In divx you can ask to the decoder to treat the source as progressive or to deinterlace it, but you ALWAYS encode in progressive.
Not at all
I've downloaded sample movie from 100fps.com (it's not blockbuster it is a capture test sample), and it is DivX5 50fps interlaced. so?
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  #18  
02-27-2004, 04:42 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydeus
Not at all
I've downloaded sample movie from 100fps.com (it's not blockbuster it is a capture test sample), and it is DivX5 50fps interlaced. so?
So DL the codec, open it and find me where is the setting because I look for it yesterday just before posting my message and didn't find any !

PS: can you give me the link towards this sample ? I'll be glad to check how this poor codec deal with interlacing.

EDIT : at home I have Divx5.1.1 and there is no "encode as interlaced" provided. But at my office I have 5.0.5 and... there is this choice !
either they removed the interlacing support or I was to exhausted yesterday
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  #19  
02-27-2004, 04:52 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Here is a very "deep" explanation of the Divx 5 codec:

http://www.divx.com/support/guides/DivXGuide51.pdf
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  #20  
02-27-2004, 05:03 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Okay, according to page 90, I was too tired yesterday
(or perhaps the "interlaced" choice appears only when you have load an interlaced source, that I didn't do).
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