Quantcast FFmpeg: Bitrate Peaks - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
02-29-2004, 08:26 AM
Anerboda Anerboda is offline
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I really like the encodings done with ffvfw, and I couldn't control the max bitratepeaks either. So I looked at one movie in Bitrateviewer, and found that the average bitrate was¨839 kbit/s and with peak at 5540 kbit/s.
I was doing a SVCD at 480x576 and VBV 112 (56 in BV).
Muxed and burned as SVCD. When I was watching the movie in my standalone, I didn't see any difference at those scenes with the high bitrate peaks ????
I have now done 5 movies, they all have bitrate peaks between 3500 and 5540 kbit/s, and they all played perfectly...

Maybe I'm just lucky to have a standalone, that will play these movies, but I'm a very happy with my results and testings

Have anybody else actually tried to burn these high bitratepeaks movies and tested them in your standalone?

Well, just wanted to share my findings

Anerboda
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  #2  
02-29-2004, 08:47 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Well it's good for you your player will play it, and I'm also pretty sure my player will play SVCDs with peaks of ~5000kb/sec, but when it comes to DVD encoding and the peaks go up to ~15.000kb/sec, I guarantee you that NO standalone on the world will play it, because it's just way out of standard...
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02-29-2004, 11:06 AM
Amenophis Amenophis is offline
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Bitrateview calculates the bitrate BEFORE the use of the vbv buffer. If you want to create an standard svcd, it's only important, that the bitrate AFTER the use of the vbv buffer ist below 2756 kbit/s (oder something like that).

thats the case when i encode stuff with mencoder, even if there are the same bitrate peaks, too. Additionally, you can reduce the rate control tolerance, this will cut these peaks. not even scenarist complaints about peaks @ 10 mbit/s (+2 mbit/s audio), if rct is not too high, and this tool generally complaints about everything.
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02-29-2004, 12:13 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Hi anerboda,
I still didn't get peaks above vrc_maxrate in mencoder, did you get them?. What was your mencoder command-line, and what the bitrate peaks you got?. Did you take a look at that scene overbitrated?, how did it look?.
AFAIK there's no single function in mencoder to adjust rate control tolerance. How do you adjust it?. Do you make use of vrc_eq, vi/b_qoffset,...?.
I'm really curious about this bitrate peaks
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02-29-2004, 12:21 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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I think he's talking about ffvfw encoding
This is getting a bit out of hands
So many encoders in these threads that we don't really know what we're talking about
Could you tell us which one you're experiencing over-bitrates?

@all,
When you start a thread be a sports and tell us which encoder and OS you refer to

Cheers
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02-29-2004, 12:25 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Well, Rui, I don't really know:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amenophis
thats the case when i encode stuff with mencoder, even if there are the same bitrate peaks, too.
I understood he meant mencoder, but you're right: working with so many encoders at the same time... we'll finally mess them up!
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  #7  
02-29-2004, 12:37 PM
Amenophis Amenophis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
AFAIK there's no single function in mencoder to adjust rate control tolerance. How do you adjust it?. Do you make use of vrc_eq, vi/b_qoffset,...?.
I'm really curious about this bitrate peaks
There is such a feature called rate control tolerance, set it with :vratetol=1000: or something like this. i prefer a value between 1000 and 2000.
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02-29-2004, 01:54 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Hi amenophis, from man_page:
Quote:
vratetol=<value>
approximated filesize tolerance in kBit. 1000-100000 is a sane range. (warning: 1kBit = 1000 Bits) (default: 8000)
I didn't know filesize tolerance was the same as rate control tolerance. I thought the first refered to final filesize, and rate control would refer to same internal way of encoder to adjust bitrate. But just figured it out, since I don't have the knowledge. I see I was wrong.
Then, what is vratetol supposed to be doing?, how does it work?. Where did you take that 1000 value?. When you change it, what happens to the m2v file, and the image?.
Amenophis, I see that you use some settings (vqblur=0.3, lumi_mask, dark_mask) that I suppose that you got from your tests, or from guides, forums,... Could you help us with these settings, and how you decide which employ in every situation/film (increase filesize, increase compression, improve quality,...)?
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  #9  
02-29-2004, 02:57 PM
Amenophis Amenophis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
I didn't know filesize tolerance was the same as rate control tolerance. I thought the first refered to final filesize, and rate control would refer to same internal way of encoder to adjust bitrate. But just figured it out, since I don't have the knowledge. I see I was wrong.
Then, what is vratetol supposed to be doing?, how does it work?. Where did you take that 1000 value?. When you change it, what happens to the m2v file, and the image?.
in general, both things are something different, but it seems that both things are adjusted by this settings. i've choosen a value between 1000 and 2000, because values < 1000 will result in strange bitrate distribution and higher values will result in higher peaks. I thought it was called rate control tolerance in the manual, sorry if my first answer was a little bit confusing because of that.

Quote:
Amenophis, I see that you use some settings (vqblur=0.3, lumi_mask, dark_mask) that I suppose that you got from your tests, or from guides, forums,...
i didn't use lumi- oder dark_masking, both will lower the quality. it may be good for low-bitrate rips, but i concentrate on dvd->dvdr conversation. i havn't tested the influence of vqblur yet, i did choose 0.3 in the gui because it's close to the standard and these results with this setting were ok.
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02-29-2004, 03:26 PM
Anerboda Anerboda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
I think he's talking about ffvfw encoding
This is getting a bit out of hands
So many encoders in these threads that we don't really know what we're talking about
Could you tell us which one you're experiencing over-bitrates?

@all,
When you start a thread be a sports and tell us which encoder and OS you refer to

Cheers
You're right, I didn't make that clear, I'm sorry
My testings and results were done using the ffvfw codec, and my OS is XP pro.
This is not a new thing, it was discovered long ago in some other threads, I was just curious if these movies with high bitrate peaks would play in my standalone, and they do.

Anerboda
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  #11  
02-29-2004, 04:13 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Lucky you, Anerboda .
As for some of us can't say the same...
Anyway maybe one of these days Milan solves it, for us.
Thanks for sharing it with us.
Cheers
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  #12  
02-29-2004, 04:21 PM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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I've got one question. Is the bitrate peek acceptance for standalones related to VBV value I mean, DVDs cann accept 9MB/s with VBV224 (good value ?) , so what will hapen when we'll set VBV value to 224 for SVCD streams. Maybe this will solve peek problems.

It will be great if some with problem of high bitrate on standalone test this way. I have no problem with them.
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02-29-2004, 04:41 PM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydeus
It will be great if some with problem of high bitrate on standalone test this way. I have no problem with them.
sorry to ask here, but with what kind of bitrate peaks does your player have no problem? you're not talking about the >10.000kb/sec peaks are you?
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02-29-2004, 04:49 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Just for info,
my player also doesn't accept high bitrates. It seems to me that with bitrates above 9500 for DVD, and above 2900 for SVCD, it beggins to "skip" frames or "slow motion" like.
In SVCD I managed to raise a bit (I think to 3000) adjusting VBV.
But this small change for DVD means nothing
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02-29-2004, 05:06 PM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
sorry to ask here, but with what kind of bitrate peaks does your player have no problem? you're not talking about the >10.000kb/sec peaks are you?
Do'h. No.
Problem was with ~5000kbps as Anerboda pointed, so I was just wonder if that type of file (with bitrate peek let say around 5000kbps, with VBV set to 224, and muxed as SVCD) will be playable on standalones that do have problem with VCD bitrate peeks above permited ~3000kbps. As the DVD with the same bitpeek value will be playable.

And yes, my standalone (the one I'm testing) plays even 7000 bitpeeks with VBV set to 40.
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02-29-2004, 05:16 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Well, Hydeus, as I just posted, 5000 kbps won't play in my standalone in VCD neither SVCD (I already tested playing with VBV)
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02-29-2004, 05:19 PM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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To what value, and how you adjusted this (of course VBV)
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02-29-2004, 05:33 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hya,
As far as I have understood from www.dvdrhelp.com any SAP could go up to the 4500kbps in an X(S)VCD.
But that means that some will do no more than 3000kbps.
Some won't go above SVCD specs., period.
As for DVD all should go fine up to DVD specs. which is 9800kbps for video only,
but very few should do more than that.
Maybe the new SAP era of DivX capable players will do > 9800kbps but what about the others...
DivX capable SAPs are still above 300€/$.
At least here in Portugal.
I can buy a SAP for less than 70€/$ here if I don't care about MPEG-4, and I don't
So let's see if in a not so far future Milan can give us a hand.
BTW have you noticed that now the FF forum is not exclusivly dedicated to U*NIX and Co.
Cheers
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02-29-2004, 07:32 PM
poerschr poerschr is offline
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I think that bitrate viewer is bunk...

I have a secondpass file encoded with ffvfw...When I checked it with bitrate rate viewer, the maxium peak was 8879. After running pulldown, the bitrate peak jumps to 10612. How can that be?
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  #20  
02-29-2004, 07:55 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poerschr
I think that bitrate viewer is bunk...

I have a secondpass file encoded with ffvfw...When I checked it with bitrate rate viewer, the maxium peak was 8879. After running pulldown, the bitrate peak jumps to 10612. How can that be?
You could be right
I know that Bitrate Viewer does give incorrect average bitrates on MPEG-1 files.
The true average bitrate is found with VirtualDub.
Maybe it's time for me to write "Bitrate Peeper"

-kwag
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