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  #1  
03-30-2004, 12:09 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Don't know if this is the right place to post, or better some of the audio threads...

I did a copy of a Tom&Jerry DVD film (Hanna-Barbera) that my son loves and I was afraid he would soon scratch... (those with children will understand ). Is made of several episodes in the same DVD.

I made a nice KVCD, but audio is out of sync. And I realised that audio delay varied from one episode to another. So I splitted the file, demuxed and remuxed in bbmpeg, adjusting delay in every episode. A time-consuming process (how could I do it better?), but finally good result.

But when I joined the files (TMPGEnc mpeg tools), audio was again out of sync. I'm afraid that internally the mpeg tools demux the audio and video tracks, join them and then remux, so I ended up the same as at the begining, since joining the audio tracks didn't take in consideration the delay I fixed in bbmpeg, isn't it?.

How can I solve this?. I think a good way could be add silence at the begining of the audio track (the time necessary to get it in sync), so when it would be joined and remuxed, intervals where respected... But I don't know what tool to use and how to do it. Even there may be another easier way to solve this.

Any help, apreciated.
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  #2  
03-30-2004, 12:17 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Why do you need to merge them ? You can put several mpeg together on a single disc using Vcdeasy or Nero !
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03-30-2004, 12:37 PM
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Hey D.Doc!

Beside one question.......

Do these "american Cartoons" at PAL DVD come out interlaced or progressive??? Do check that in DVD2AVI on motion scenes and tell me as it would be very interesting!

Last week I had luck and got a PAL DVD from Disney incl. DonaldDuck Episodes (new ones) for my GodChild. These Streams just enjoyed a nice PAL Speedup from 23.976 to 25.000 so everything was still progressive

But If you got a fieldblended Stream, means on of these VERY common crappy "23.976 telecine to 29.97 fieldblended conversion to PAL 25.000 again"-Conversions (thats why many PAL users do get crazy about 25.000 americ./japan. Cartoons in here), you should take a look at "Restore24" a VERY good script of didée on doom9.org which does recognise the valuable fields and weave them automatically back to the orig 23.976.
Ok, its slow and maybe a tiny small! amount of blends in the whole stream are still recognisable, but you can encode at lovely 23.976 or just pitch it up to 25.000 PAL incl. Bewsweet workflow. and therefore you wont end up with a continously blended fields stream as if you would just deinterlace
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03-30-2004, 01:25 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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@dialhot,
me:
I used some times Nero with several mpeg1, for comparing quality with different scripts, adding a menu to choose each script at a time. But I guess that if I just throw several mpeg1 files in Nero, without a menu, they will play from begining to end without interruptions or noticing they are different files, isn't it?.
Thanx dude.

@incredible,
DVD2AVI sais its progressive . But when I noticedthe problem of audio delay, I first thought it might be NTSC to PAL conversion issue. But if I understood well, in this case the audio delay would have to be increasing more and more along the film. In my case, audio delay changes from episode to episode.
Thank you anyway. I think Dialhot way will sort my problem out.
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04-02-2004, 05:20 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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dialhot,
Nero could have been the solution, but it wasn't. Why?. Because as I made calculations to fit in a CD, if I add in Nero each chapter (total 10) muxed separately, final size gets 15 Mb bigger. I know, I could buy a 90 min CD and forget about it... but iI think I don't like easy solutions.

I tried feeding head3ac with each mp2 files, set delay and reencode as mp2. But as you guess output was inaudible (just noise). I think a workaround could be feeding head3ac with mp2, convert to wav, and back to mp2 setting delay... What do you think?. Another hint?.
Thanx
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  #6  
04-02-2004, 05:36 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Any CD80 can contain these 15 MB more !
Youu just have to activate the overburning under nero !

(even if you buy a CD90, you have to use overburn as a CD90 is recognize as a CD80 by any burner.Officialy CD90 does not exist)
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04-02-2004, 09:23 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
But when I joined the files (TMPGEnc mpeg tools), audio was again out of sync.
That's why your audio is out if sync. Use TMPEG to cut (demux), but not to join (mux) pieces together.
Use BBMpeg or MPlex to mux your files.
TMPEG is NO good joining files. It has never been

-kwag
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  #8  
04-02-2004, 10:10 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Any CD80 can contain these 15 MB more !
Youu just have to activate the overburning under nero !
I've overburnt CD with Nero and my recorder several times, but just 2-5 Mb extra, never tried 15 Mb. I'll try now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
That's why your audio is out if sync. Use TMPEG to cut (demux), but not to join (mux) pieces together.
Use BBMpeg or MPlex to mux your files.
TMPEG is NO good joining files. It has never been
Yes, I know and I didn't mux with TMPGEnc. Sorry if I didn't explain well. I muxed each chapter separately with BBMpeg (that's why the total final size grew 15Mb, since instead of just 1 header for 1 file, I have 1 header for each 10 files). And then, when I joined the files with TMPGEnc, it seems that internally it demuxes, join audio and video separately, and then mux back again. And as audio files were in synch through delay when muxing, when being joined by TMPGEnc it wasn't consider that delay I introduced when I muxed in BBMpeg.
Don't know if I explained well with my poor english. Anyway, I'm going to "overcook" my CD (...I hope that just my CD )
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  #9  
04-02-2004, 10:14 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
It has never been
One more time, I do ALL my muxing/cropping/merging with it and I NEVER had the slightest problem.
But my problem of bbmpeg that fails at 99% on ANY works since months is still present. Mplex does the same.

Kwag, really, you should revise some judgement some days...
Quote:
that's why the total final size grew 15Mb, since instead of just 1 header for 1 file, I have 1 header for each 10 files
Mux them with tmpgenc then ! It produces files thare are 1% smaller than bbmpeg.

So on 815 MB you will lose 8 MB. And 807 MB will surely fit on your CD.
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04-02-2004, 10:37 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Kwag, really, you should revise some judgement some days...
I should have made it more clear. When you join mpeg clips with TMPEG's MERGE&CUT option, It doesn't work correctly
Anything you merge with TMPEG, with exhibit clicks at joined points, and audio will be out of sync.
Yes, you can demux and mux with TMPEG fine. I guess I didn't explain correctly

-kwag
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  #11  
04-02-2004, 03:47 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Mux them with tmpgenc then ! It produces files thare are 1% smaller than bbmpeg.

So on 815 MB you will lose 8 MB. And 807 MB will surely fit on your CD.
Well, it would be fine. But I don't remember know how can I set an audio delay in TMPGEnc... since each file has a different audio delay, and I set the delay when muxing to be in synch.

Sorry me if this item is begining to be like a pain in the .....
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  #12  
04-02-2004, 03:51 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
Well, it would be fine. But I don't remember know how can I set an audio delay in TMPGEnc... since each file has a different audio delay, and I set the delay when muxing to be in synch.
ugh. Sorry. I forgot that point that you already mentionned earlier

But I'm really surprised that you can overburn 15Mo. Even if the burning fails during the session closing, all will be ok.
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04-02-2004, 03:53 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Demux with TMPEG and remux with audio delay correction applied in BBMpeg.
You can't apply any delays with TMPEG.

-kwag
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04-03-2004, 09:35 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Thanx again for support.
I still didn't try to overburn those 15 Mb, very busy now with other things. But I'll try this afternoon.

Kwag, already tried what you suggest. Splitted the file in 10 pieces (10 chapters) with TMPGEnc, demuxed with TMPGEnc, remuxed each separate chapter with its own delay (different in each chapter) with BBMpeg. And now I have 10 chapters in synch... how the h*ll do I join them back without losing synchrony?. I tried rejoining with TMPGEnc, but you know the result...
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  #15  
04-03-2004, 10:04 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Your audio is artificially in synch because of the muxing delay introduced by bbmpeg. You can't merge 2 videos that are not muxed with the same delays as the delay is set in the header, so it have to be the same for the whole video !

That is not a tmpgenc related problem. What you want to do is imposible.

Ever do the overburn or add manually the delay in each mp2 file before to mux them to the video (with tmpgenc or bbmpeg). You don't have any other choice !
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04-03-2004, 10:39 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Your audio is artificially in synch because of the muxing delay introduced by bbmpeg. You can't merge 2 videos that are not muxed with the same delays as the delay is set in the header, so it have to be the same for the whole video !

That is not a tmpgenc related problem. What you want to do is imposible.

Ever do the overburn or add manually the delay in each mp2 file before to mux them to the video (with tmpgenc or bbmpeg). You don't have any other choice !
Well, friend, if you re-read my first posts, you'll see that I said that was my problem, that the delay was introduced when muxing, and when joining it wasn't respected (since it was in the header, didn't say but you already know). Of course is not a TMPGEnc prob, but the problem is audio are still out of synch (just in synch through header delay, that is lost when joining).
That's why I have been asking for a way to redo my audio streams, to introduce the silence delay in each (as with program ac3delay).
Quote:
I think a good way could be add silence at the begining of the audio track (the time necessary to get it in sync), so when it would be joined and remuxed, intervals where respected...
Again, how can I add manually the delay? (Hmm, feel strange quoting myself, isn't it?)

I see I didn't explain myself well, but this is just what I was asking for since the begining
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  #17  
04-03-2004, 12:38 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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That's right that it is whta you first asked for

Use besweet ! That's so simple
(you will have to do a mp2 -> mp2 conversion in fact becaseu there is no tool that just add a delay to a mp2 wihtout reencoding it).
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04-03-2004, 04:03 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
...

How can I solve this?. I think a good way could be add silence at the begining of the audio track (the time necessary to get it in sync), so when it would be joined and remuxed, intervals where respected... But I don't know what tool to use and how to do it. Even there may be another easier way to solve this.

Any help, apreciated.
Hi, I know maybe this is to make all work again, but you can take a look here http://www.avisynth.org/index.php?page=Splice
Perhaps this unalignedsplice/alignedsplice functions could help you.
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04-03-2004, 04:35 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Thanx dialhot, I tried this in headac3he but it reencoded audio with auwful output (just noise). I'll try with besweet (will it reencode?).

Prodater, nice hint. The problem is that my video/audio files all already encoded, so I cannot make use of this avisynth functions, or I would have to reencode video (avisynth just frameserves an encoder, AFAIK).
Thank you anyway (agraït amic ).
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  #20  
04-03-2004, 05:59 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
Prodater, nice hint. The problem is that my video/audio files all already encoded, so I cannot make use of this avisynth functions, or I would have to reencode video (avisynth just frameserves an encoder, AFAIK).
Thank you anyway (agraït amic ).
I just said you
Quote:
Hi, I know maybe this is to make all work again...
I already know for what is avisynth!

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
Thanx dialhot, I tried this in headac3he but it reencoded audio with auwful output (just noise). I'll try with besweet (will it reencode?).
Of course it will reencode.
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