Deinterlace vs IVTC ?

muaddib · #1 08-13-2002, 07:33 PM

For the first time I got a NTSC interlaced movie, and I don't know how to encode it. All the movies I have done so far were PROGRESSIVE FILMS.

Is there a way to know if the film is telecined or it's just interlaced?
And most important what should I do in both situation?
There is tons of de-interlace / ivtc methods...
Should I use AVS, TMPG, VDUB....

I tried this AVS script, but I did not get a smooth play.
LoadPlugin("D:\DVD_Rip\mpeg2dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\DVD_Rip\decomb\decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\Temp\my_movie\movie.d2v")
SwapFields() <-- with and without
Telecide()
Decimate()
BilinearResize(352,480,0,0,720,480)

What am I doing wrong?
Or should try anything different?
Help me please...

kwag · #2 08-13-2002, 07:43 PM

First of all, you should open the VOB's with DVD2AVI, and press "F5". Let it run for about a minute, and look at the statistics window. What percent does it show FILM? Or does it only show NTSC?

-kwag

muaddib · #3 08-13-2002, 07:46 PM

It shows 29.970fps - NTSC - Interlaced

kwag · #4 08-13-2002, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muaddib

It shows 29.970fps - NTSC - Interlaced

Try your script, like this:

LoadPlugin("D:\DVD_Rip\mpeg2dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\DVD_Rip\decomb\decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\Temp\my_movie\movie.d2v")
Bob()
BilinearResize(352,480,0,0,720,480)

And encode at 29.97. Not 23.976.

Tell me what it does

-kwag

muaddib · #5 08-13-2002, 08:07 PM

Well, the movie played smoothly!!

But... is there a way to make it 23.970 fps?
And I just read in the AVS reference guide, that BOB uses a "dirty work".
Is it the best shot?

rendalunit · #6 08-13-2002, 08:20 PM

hey Mauddib,

I use FieldDeinterlace() all the time, but I've heard some people say they like Bob better (who's Bob?

)

this is for IVTC with avisynth ntsc:

Telecide()
Decimate(cycle=5)

Kwag, Do you load the VOBs into DVD2AVI and F5 then close and load into Mediator? I really wish Mediator had a statistics window!!

thx,
ren

kwag · #7 08-13-2002, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rendalunit

hey Mauddib,

I use FieldDeinterlace() all the time, but I've heard some people say they like Bob better (who's Bob?

)

this is for IVTC with avisynth ntsc:

Telecide()
Decimate(cycle=5)

Kwag, Do you load the VOBs into DVD2AVI and F5 then close and load into Mediator? I really wish Mediator had a statistics window!!

thx,
ren

Hi ren,
No, I just load the VOB's with Mediator, and it automatically selects or de-selects "Inverse Telecine", depending on the source.
About bob

, I've heard that bob() is not the same as Bob()

so check the docs on those functions.

@muaddib,
You can't Inverse Telecine what has not been telecined.
So that movie must be encoded at 29.97fps.

-kwag

muaddib · #8 08-13-2002, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag

Hi ren,
No, I just load the VOB's with Mediator, and it automatically selects or de-selects "Inverse Telecine", depending on the source.
About bob

, I've heard that bob() is not the same as Bob()

so check the docs on those functions.

@muaddib,
You can't Inverse Telecine what has not been telecined.
So that movie must be encoded at 29.97fps.

-kwag

How can you know it wasn't telecined?... Is that the NTSC at the DVD2AVI preview?

Now that we are at this subject, I just saw the release of decomb3.9 at doom9.

kwag · #9 08-13-2002, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muaddib

How can you know it wasn't telecined?... Is that the NTSC at the DVD2AVI preview?

Yes, that's it!. The preview will tell you. If it says something like 95% FILM, then the original is FILM. Then you just enable "Force FILM" in DVD2AVI, and encode your movie at 23.976fps.

-kwag

syk2c11 · #10 08-14-2002, 08:37 AM

I am confused now. I have "Unbreakable" DVD in this format
29.97--Film--Interlaced (I have double checked it, it shows this for sure!)

What should I do with it? Please also give me the exact script for FitCD as well, thanks! If it is to be IVTC by using the script, do I leave it untouched at 29.97 in DVD2AVI??

kwag · #11 08-14-2002, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syk2c11

I am confused now. I have "Unbreakable" DVD in this format
29.97--Film--Interlaced (I have double checked it, it shows this for sure!)

What should I do with it? Please also give me the exact script for FitCD as well, thanks! If it is to be IVTC by using the script, do I leave it untouched at 29.97 in DVD2AVI??

That's movie was shot FILM. Just select "Force FILM" in DVD2AVI and create your project file. Then encode with the KVCD template you want, with the default values. They're already set to encode at 23.976.

-kwag

muaddib · #12 08-14-2002, 12:18 PM

If I'm doing a SKVCD (from a NTSC interlaced source), is it better to leave the movie interlaced or should I deinterlace?
What will give me more quality?

kwag · #13 08-14-2002, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muaddib

If I'm doing a SKVCD (from a NTSC interlaced source), is it better to leave the movie interlaced or should I deinterlace?
What will give me more quality?

If you're positive that the source is not telecined (original is 29.97fps interlaced), then just encode without the 3:2 pulldown on the template, and change that to "Interlaced".
SVCD ( and SKVCD ) support interlaced video. But you'll also have to encode at 29.97fps

-kwag

muaddib · #14 08-14-2002, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag

If you're positive that the source is not telecined (original is 29.97fps interlaced), then just encode without the 3:2 pulldown on the template, and change that to "Interlaced".
SVCD ( and SKVCD ) support interlaced video. But you'll also have to encode at 29.97fps

-kwag

Lets see if I understand this...
Looking at the DVD2AVI preview:
FILM or >95% FILM ---> use force film and encode at 23.976
NTSC 29.970 ---> deinterlace for vcd, not deinterlace for svcd and encode at 29.970
FILM <95% ---> it is telecined. So you have to IVTC and encode at 23.976

Is that right?
If it is, then I'm sure that my source is not telecined.

syk2c11 · #15 08-14-2002, 10:36 PM

Kwag,
Back to the issue "29.97--Film--Interlaced". You've tought me how to deal with the frame rate by using "forced film" in DVD2AVI, but how do I deal with "interlaced". Should I use "Bob" in FitCD or something else? Is it possible to convert it to "progressive" because I don't like the result of de-interlacing (I love KVCD-Plus 704x480 better than SKVCD).

kwag · #16 08-14-2002, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syk2c11

Kwag,
Back to the issue "29.97--Film--Interlaced". You've tought me how to deal with the frame rate by using "forced film" in DVD2AVI, but how do I deal with "interlaced". Should I use "Bob" in FitCD or something else? Is it possible to convert it to "progressive" because I don't like the result of de-interlacing (I love KVCD-Plus 704x480 better than SKVCD).

You can try Bob() or bob(). Check the new Decomb.dll's document. It was released yesterday. Get it at doom9's site. You can only encode at 23.976fps if your original material is FILM. If it's a 29.97fps interlaced, you can only deinterlace, for VCD purposes. That's the best you can do. And the quality will be lower if it's 29.97.

-kwag

muaddib · #17 08-14-2002, 11:47 PM

Hi kwag!

Some time ago I had a sound skip problem. With a 23.976fps source encoded as 29.970fps, the sound skip problem was solved, but the movie didn't play smoothly... so I discarded this option.
I just figured out that with a source that is already at 29.970fps (like this NTSC interlaced) and I encoding at 29.970fps (as it should be), my DVD plays ALL KVCDs templates SMOOTHLY!!!

BEAUTIFUL

Well, for encoding this movie with KVCD-Plus_704x480 I have to deinterlace.
So I tried with bob that you said, and with FieldDeinterlace that rendalunit said.
I couldn't see any difference in quality, but somehow I feel more comfortable with bob (who is Bob?

).
The file size with bob is just a little bigger (~250k for 1 min sample).

I also noticed a strange thing...
When I load the BOB_AVS, TEMPGEnc (at video source type) says it's Non-Interlaced (as expected), but when I load the FieldDeinterlace_AVS, TMPGEnc says it's Interlaced!

Is that right, or I did something wrong?

kwag · #18 08-14-2002, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muaddib

Hi kwag!

I also noticed a strange thing...
When I load the BOB_AVS, TEMPGEnc (at video source type) says it's Non-Interlaced (as expected), but when I load the FieldDeinterlace_AVS, TMPGEnc says it's Interlaced! Is that right, or I did something wrong?

I don't know

, I'll have to check that out.

-kwag

syk2c11 · #19 08-15-2002, 12:08 AM

Kwag,
Please forgive me for bothering you again, I understand you message perfectly. The question is that DVD2AVI shows framerate=29.97, it also shows "Film" in the box right under the framerate, so what is it then (29.97 or film)?

kwag · #20 08-15-2002, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syk2c11

Kwag,
Please forgive me for bothering you again, I understand you message perfectly. The question is that DVD2AVI shows framerate=29.97, it also shows "Film" in the box right under the framerate, so what is it then (29.97 or film)?

It's FILM. If it says 29.97 NTSC, that would be 29.97 interlaced.
So your source is FILM. Select "Force FILM" for your project.

-kwag