Quantcast MovieStacker: Program Sources, Please? - Page 5 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #81  
04-26-2004, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
You have recently lost a number of members due to recent events. But you have at least in the very short term gained a few as well. I come to you today outside my duties on the many forums which I frequent or moderate. To put it simply I come as one of you to speak to you. And what have I come to speak on you might ask? Why the General Public License (here after referred to as the GPL) and user rights and responsibilities of course. Along with many issues raised within this conversation thread.
You win some, you loose some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
And I don't like being disrespected.
No one does, and you should start by not disrespecting others!!!
You call what you quoted disrespectfull? Do you know what disrespectfull means. I am a nice guy and will define it for you. You need only ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
Please abstain yourself from making accusations against kwag, you are putting yourself in a position in which legal action can be taken for libel and defamation of character, not to mention you are harassing one of our members and you, yourself are a member of this organization since you decided to join voluntarily.
I have things called facts on my side. I also have people called lawyers on my side. I further have things called licenses on my side. I have in no way defamed or slandered Kwag. I am not lying about Kwag. Everything I said he said he did. Everything I called him on he has done. Second there is nothing in the registration process that asked my consent to join this imaginary organization. I am not a member of this organization and neither are you. Try to accept help when it is offered. I have nothing against Muaddib personally. Simply he has made some very bad decisions and taken some very bad advice. Mostly from Kwag. I have every confidence that Muaddib can be a good person and do the right thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
You want to let your opinion be known? There’s nothing wrong with that, but please comply with the rules and most of all refrain from harassing other members and please stop making accusations, that constitute slandering and defamation of character. Your false statement is defamatory, meaning that it actually harms the reputation of kwag, as opposed to being merely insulting or offensive.
Exactly which one of my factually based statments is false? Tell me and I will be more than happy to discuss it with you. it is not my intention to make false statements here as others have done. Tell me and I will listen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
You want to keep doing that? Go back to where you came from, I’m sure the moderators of this forum will agree with me that such behavior will not be tolerated anymore.
I sure hope not. In this case they would be neglecting their duties to you the users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
You want to keep posting? Do it with respect for everyone. Mind you, two wrongs don’t make a right and we will not do it to you, but we will not tolerate it either.
I respect you [so far]. I respect Muaddib. I respect shh. I respect basically everyone else who has posted to this thread. There is only one person who has posted to this thread for whom I have little or no respect. But that is only due to the disrespect he has shown others.
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  #82  
04-26-2004, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Hey Mr. Neo Neko,
With all due respect sir, I have not written several paragraphs you are quoting as being my words!
Please do what you have to do to clear this subject as soon as possible.
Now didn't you all read Mr. Inc. post here in this thread??
Let's act as adults please.
?? Sorry. PM me quickly as soon as you can and tell me which ones. I want to fix it. And with your help I am sure I can. It was never my intention to missrepresent you. Of course I think you know that.
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  #83  
04-26-2004, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Again Mr. Neo Neko,
I demand a proper action taken care here
I am not the author of several paragraphs you say you are quoting me
If you don't act accordingly I shall have to ask others to do so on your behalf
Sorry. Again my deepest apologies. I believe I have rectified the situation. Please let me know if there is anything else that I might do to help correct the situation. I got careless with my ctrl-v usage kinda like Muaddib. We are all humans here after all. Again deepest apologies.
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  #84  
04-26-2004, 06:10 PM
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@Kwag&Muaddib.
I am sure shh would agree and if either of you are agreeable [especially you Muaddib] I would like to offer my assistance and possibly that of others to help you come to a mutually agreeable solution.
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  #85  
04-26-2004, 06:30 PM
glänzend glänzend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
You read but have very little understanding. First Jorel is not some innocent. I don't want to start a game of who started it. But suficed to say that jorel is not innocent. On top of being quite hard to understand. Jorel have you tried babelfish? It might help. In terms of treatment of Kwag it has been rather light. Especially for the serious danger he is putting you in.
Ohh, Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone in particular is innocent or not, but I don't see any reason to be so harsh.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
Nope that is not a requirement. The GPL is a living license that grows and evolves to better protect those it serves. Kwag has lied to you and spread false fear, uncertainty, and doubt(FUD)...
Then that means that everyone can chose, the one that best fits, even if anyone elese does not like that particular one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
Wrong. Muaddib "can" resolve this on his own. But he has no final say on the situation. Assuming that he does not do the right thing and resolve the issue shh and those of us that support the GPL have a very BIG say in the matter.
I still belive that the last words belong to muaddib as much as Shh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
Well then the moderators need to boot me out. I am sorry but I can not exist by the non existant terms of this false organization.
Then why did you join?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
I have heard from 5+ professional lawyers on the subject and more legal students than I care to remember. Kwag is incapable of forming such an organization. I can abide by general forum rules. But this organization fallicy is something I will not tollerate. And neither should any forum member. Kwag has no rights to use your identity in any legal context since he has not procured consent from a single one of you. By doing so Kwag is perpetrating illegal/criminal actions.
Again please read the terms and conditions, so you can see that you agreed, FREELY, AND WILLINGLY. NO ONE asked you to. NO ONE force you to,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
I am here. I did not recieve any such aproval from the "owner". Though I think he knew better than to refuse.
:banghead: mreee!! wrong again, you were aproved, and its kind of funny, since there was no reason to reject you, until you started slandering, kwag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
No he isn't. But I know others who are contemplating such actions.
Bring them on, I give you my personal guarantee, that if we are wrong, dictated by a judge mind you, I will personally bring this forum down. and my friend you don't know me, when I say down, I mean erased from the face of the earth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
False. Kwag poses a great danger to all forum members. Shh should be included as one of "your own" and this just goes to show rampant hypocracy. I know other forums where shh is less known and has spent less time and effort on. But he is still considdered one of "their own".
They are all "our own including you. Some agree with muaddib and some agree with Shh.
But don't you find it interesting that the ones that, agree with Shh all left the forum instead of continue posting his support for him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
In the end Muaddib has no final say in the matter. He has already proven less than reliable.
Maybe so, but he does has the final say with Shh since he is the only one who has the code.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
snigger*did you bother to look at Kwag's link?? http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq....cePostedPublic *snigger* Doesn't that mean that Kwag's claims about being exempt because he is his own organization are equally false? [Hint. In order not to be a flaming hypocrit you need to agree with me on this]
Trust me my friend, I disagree with those links to the FAQ from everybody. I say they are not the license and only the license can be subject to interpretation. And only by a judge.
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  #86  
04-26-2004, 06:55 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Ok Mr. Neo Neko,
Now that everything has been starightened about my name and what I write I do ask for one thing off topic (yes it is off topic more than what? 90% of what's been written here? and still everybody can post!).
Do you feel you can actually do anything besides calling your lawyer?
Is that why you're here?
Are you here to start a flaming war?
See, that I am only asking you, thus not acusing you of any such acts.
But please be advised that you have used (probably without intention ) my name in vain and in an improper way.
I would feel offended although you have already prooved me before of being a civilized person.
If back at doom9 or at any other forum (that most probably we're all members of) you can give a precious advise to Mr. shh, I believe you already noticed you will not change what we all feel here.
Now talking about civilized:
I would ask for all those posting here to keep your posts as objective as possible.

1 - Of course we all see that IF GPL will be accpeted in a court of law, maybe Mr. Muaddib will have to give his sources.
2 - Of course we are all in favour of free software and team work for the benefit of communities.
3 - Of course we all understand that Mr. Shh may or may not be using licenses/law for his own future benefit.
4 - We all understand that, besides Mr. Shh and lately you Mr. Neo Neko, noone EVER asked for Moviestacker sources.

Let us all look at this:
5 - Once Mr. Shh released FitCD under GPL and released it's sources.
6 - After some time Mr. Muaddib (and maybe other members of past FitCD forum @kvcd.net) asked for some slight changes/developments on some of the program features.
7 - Mr. Shh (politely or not!) informed the other members that since the source was available they could do the changes themselves (3rd person/plural because I wasn't even registered here)
8 - Mr. Muaddib reacted to this behaviour by making the changes himself and maintaining "his" new program under GPL (his crime as it seems...)
9 - As soon as 1st Moviestacker was released Mr. Shh asks for the sources. He is given some kind of sources that I have not really understood which at this time myself. By then Mr. Shh draws back.
10 - Other releases happen...
11 - After one year Moviestacker 2.1.0 hits the 1st page of the news here and the next day here we have Mr. Shh claiming for everybody's/his rights.

I mostly obbey and go by the law.
But I'm also on the innocent/weaks side.
And here I have to make a judgement that may not be fair:
Do I stick with the law and by a margin of 10% of intellectual property support Mr. Shh?
Or do I stick with the weaks that REALLY tried to help the community when it most needed (as opposed to other that didn't care!) and support what now may well be 90% of intellectual property of Mr. Muaddib on that code???
No Mr. Neo Neko you may be right or wrong and I really don't care anymore as I already know what Mr. Shh was doing here this whole time.
And you have my promisse that I_will_always_support_freeware of any kind under any license and it's author.
It's just that I just don't consider Moviestacker based on Mr. Shh intellectual property anymore, unless prooven wrong!
@All,
So you can all keep attacking each other but be warned that by the rules that support this forum I will advise the Mods/admin of anything said or done here that doesn't go by them (the rules).
Remember a great saying: "Friendship is all".
If we cannot be friendly let us keep our posts (at least here) civilized.
May you all have a nice day


PS-BTW Mr. Neo Neko. Being a Mod at Doom9, could you please see and tell us why a lot of members there seem to have difficulties understanding Mr. Jorel? I find that a big surprise because although his English is not perfect noone ever mistreated him here as I've seen at Doom9 even by those who are not regular members, out of not understanding him.
Please be so kind to see what seems to be the problem regarding this subject, and advise with me. Since both me and Mr. Jorel speak Portuguese there won't be any misunderstanding and that may help him in future visits there.
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  #87  
04-26-2004, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
In the end Muaddib has no final say in the matter. He has already proven less than reliable.
Sorry but I don't think you have the right to come here and talk like about a person that spent his free time, developing a free software, getting no money from it, helping lots of newbies and so on for free. You registered today, and come here to talk about a person based on what you read on a thread.

Your words are really hash on someone that has been here on KVCD.net only helping. Then you strike on Kwag and Jorel, people that has helped others for ages.

I think somethink is clear: Muaddib doesn't feel like to release the 90% of original work that now constitutes MovieStacker. But of course, you don't give a dawn, you think this guy made a mistake, used GPL code in the begining when he didn't even know how to program, Now let's make him pay Who cares if he's motivation is gone if your goal is fullfiled, you're not from here anyway. Who cares if Muaddib discontinues MovieStacker, releasing sources or not? You don't use it, anyway.

I understand why GPL was created and I know good things came from that. But I think you, shh and the so-called GPL supporters should understand that this is not another "Mplayer vs KISS" case. Muaddib didn't took a GPL code, did minor improvement and sold. He started a very long ago from GPL'ed code, and added so many features that the GPL'ed part became less than 10%. And still, giving away as freeware.

What I see here is a massive disrespect for muaddib, for a supposed GPL defense.It's very interesting that you feel the right to have muaddib sources, regardless of GPL. I can't imagine how many hours muaddib spent working and bug-fixing his software, for you to come and say you have the right to look at his sources against his will. And yes, it's his sources. The fitCD derived work sources has been released, but it's not enough, you want it all. You are pushing Muaddib for his sources. You are making the guy feel bad, in exchange for what? If you do win, who will win in the end?

So, regardless of the forum being an organization or not, regardless of what it's on GPL, if I were you, shh, I would leave this matter, just for decency. If you find someone around selling a slightly modified FitCD without source code, let me know and I'll even support you. But push a helpful person for his original work, for whatever license/reasons is wrong.
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  #88  
04-26-2004, 07:14 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
So, regardless of the forum being an organization or not, regardless of what it's on GPL, if I were you, shh, I would leave this matter, just for decency. If you find someone around selling a slightly modified FitCD without source code, let me know and I'll even support you. But push a helpful person for his original work, for whatever license/reasons is wrong.
Give this man a cigar!
You bet you'll help Shh against a company selling software based on his code.
And I'll support both of you.
Hell (pardon my French) we'll all help and those that I name here will for sure, like Kwag, Jorel, Incredible, Glanzend, Muaddib,etc.
That's our point here: the man just wanted to help for God sake!
And he didn't win any money, EVER, on it!
So can we all reach an agreement soon please???
Cheers
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  #89  
04-26-2004, 09:02 PM
glänzend glänzend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Give this man a cigar!
I'll take your cigar and I'll drink to that!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
…Furthermore such activities constitute illegal if not criminal action.

Kwag for instance has taken great joy at slandering, defaming, shh for no reason simply to turn the forum against him.

Also known as warezing and most definitely in violation of the TOS for his web host.
These quotes belong to your post and to you, I find it not only disrespectful, but under libel and defamation of character, you are accusing kwag of illegal activities and thus my post above. Still I ask you again,
don’t you find it interesting that the people who back Shh, left the forum, for another forums where they can slander this forums reputation and not stick around to defend him?

I tell you, they could have done so in a respectful way and no one would have deleted them. Please understand that in this forum, people are all for helping their fellow users, and yes Shh is a fellow member but for some reason as you can see everyone who was for him left to post on other forums and not sticking out for him.
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  #90  
04-26-2004, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
Ohh, Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone in particular is innocent or not, but I don't see any reason to be so harsh.
In jorel's case I am not sure if it is his fault or not. But he does come off kind of harsh. But whenever I personally deal with those I know do not use english as their primary language I try and be even more understanding that usual. After reading some of jorel's recent posts I wonder if I might stand a beter chance at fully understanding them if they were in his native language.


Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
Then that means that everyone can chose, the one that best fits, even if anyone elese does not like that particular one?
A+! Yes indeed. When licensing a work under the GPL the author can if they so choose license the work under any version of the GPL their hearts desire. Not just the current one. This also means that software previously licensed under an older version of the GPL does not automatically have the latest version of the GPL applied to it. The authour might have chosen the version they chose for a reason. Altering the license after the fact is not in the interest of the user or the FSF and would be illegal. And that is why it is not done.

Quote:
from the current version of the GPL item 9 subsection 1

Each version is given a distinguishing version number. If the Program specifies a version number of this License which applies to it and "any later version", you have the option of following the terms and conditions either of that version or of any later version published by the Free Software Foundation. If the Program does not specify a version number of this License, you may choose any version ever published by the Free Software Foundation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
I still belive that the last words belong to muaddib as much as Shh.
That I whole heartedly agree with. Muaddib alone though has no such say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
Then why did you join?
I joined to help everyone in the forum. Some of what Kwag is suggesting is not only wrong but actually poses a danger. Even to those members who have never read this thread or are not active posters. Kwag is using their names without permission. Something that should be really scarry to all of you. Maybe you agree with Kwag. But does everyone else on the forum/organization[so called]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
Again please read the terms and conditions, so you can see that you agreed, FREELY, AND WILLINGLY. NO ONE asked you to. NO ONE force you to,
??

Quote:

While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent the webmaster, administrator and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

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By clicking Register below you agree to be bound by these conditions.
This is the standard phpbb disclaimer. And it mentions nothing about organization. And if there is to be an organization it needs to be discussed right there at the very least. I can abide by the forum rules fine. Save for what has gone on in this thread. I speak so seriously because this is serious. Muaddib and most everyone in this thread blows this off so lightly. Folks this is serious stuff. I think it's scarry serious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
:banghead: mreee!! wrong again, you were aproved, and its kind of funny, since there was no reason to reject you, until you started slandering, kwag.
I have run PHPBB. What I submitted to was the defacto PHPBB disclaimer and email verrification. Kwag was helpfull when it came to an email issue. But he is not sitting there all day and night waiting for people to register and send out automatic manual emails with the standard PHPBB generated activation link. As someone who has run such software I know what kind of work it would be to do such things with a large "public" forum. If Kwag persoannly approved them all he would hardly have time for anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
Bring them on, I give you my personal guarantee, that if we are wrong, dictated by a judge mind you, I will personally bring this forum down. and my friend you don't know me, when I say down, I mean erased from the face of the earth.
That is a bit excessive. I came here more to keep that from happening if possible. But I can tell you with all certainty that this is such a clear cut case that no judge would seriously give it his time and effort. Muaddib is not in complinace. And Kwag has assisted in exacerbating the issue. Personaly I have no vested interest to see the site shut down. It presents plenty of other usefull information that I have no issue with. I would much rather build community rather than destroy it. But you need to be aware that what goes on in this forum does not just effect this forum. It has wider reprecussions. You are your own community here. But you are also part of a much larger community as well. The general digital multimedia community. You may not realize it but the actions here can reflect upon us all. And in this case not to well might I add.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
They are all "our own including you. Some agree with muaddib and some agree with Shh. But don't you find it interesting that the ones that, agree with Shh all left the forum instead of continue posting his support for him?
No actually it makes quite alot of sense. They have left for one of a few reasons. One either they have presented reasonable arguments to the best of their abilities that have gone largely ignored. Or simply they are not knowledgable enough to really debate the subject but still recognize that this is wrong and as a form of protest leave. It makes perfect sense. In fact before I came here to post I can't tell you how many people kept telling me that I was wasting my efforts. That "people there just wont listen" or "have no interest in doing the right thing".

Quote:
Originally Posted by glänzend
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
snigger*did you bother to look at Kwag's link?? http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq....cePostedPublic *snigger* Doesn't that mean that Kwag's claims about being exempt because he is his own organization are equally false? [Hint. In order not to be a flaming hypocrit you need to agree with me on this]
Trust me my friend, I disagree with those links to the FAQ from everybody. I say they are not the license and only the license can be subject to interpretation. And only by a judge.
Then why have you never voiced issue with Kwag's flagrant promotion of that segment of the GPL FAQ as justification for him to ignore his responsibilities under the GPL. Without that Kwag's got nothing but his highly biased oppinions. How could you defend Kwag?

Here are my honest thoughts on Kwag right now. Surely he is not stupid. He has built this site and it's forums. And they do contain real; usefull data. Further he has so many of you trusting him so completely you find it hard to question or disagree with him. Even when it should be obvious that you should. Doom9 alows me to help moderate some of his forum. I have alot of respect for the guy. But I am not afraid to correct or disagree with him on the rare occasion that I do. I think he would agree with that assesment. In fact in a discussion related to this verry thread I had to make a small correction. Doom9 is not perfect. He just works really hard at it. All any of us on many of the forums currently quietly discussing this very thread elsewhere want to see is Kwag conceede and Muaddib and shh find a way to really work this out.
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  #91  
04-26-2004, 09:20 PM
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How do I delete my account from this criminal forum?
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  #92  
04-26-2004, 09:24 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Originally Posted by neuron2
How do I delete my account from this criminal forum?
I'm sorry to hear that.
I will do it for you right now.

Thanks,
-kwag
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  #93  
04-26-2004, 09:59 PM
r6d2 r6d2 is offline
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Excuse me, guys, I only want to share my point of view. I understand the matter is sensitive for all of us so I will just I invite you to a "sincerity exercise".

This exercise does not have anything to do with shh’s FitCD code, it merely concentrates on muaddib’s Moviestacker latest release.

The drill is as follows. For every numbered sentence below, please ask yourself if it is, in your opinion, true or false. Kind of a quiz.

Syntax: <> brackets are used to refer to the GPL license. () brackets are used to refer to points in this post. Sorry if this is confusing.

(1) GPL is a license which developers are free to choose (they can choose others). However, if used, must be honored by software developers who do.

(2) The latest version of Moviestacker was released under GPL, as can be clearly seen when installing the software.

(3) As mentioned in point <3> of the included GPL, you may distribute the Program in executable form, so muaddib was playing by the book so far.

(4) But in order to do (3), the very same GPL document which shows up when you install Moviestacker, requires you also do one of the following: (a) Accompany the source code. (b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to deliver the corresponding source code, or (c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code (this only applies if you received it as binary, so not in this case since it was coded my muaddib himself).

(5) muaddib did (3), but did not do (4), i.e., neither (a) nor (b). (c) does not even apply, as seen above.

(6) As per point <4> of the very same included GPL, you may not distribute the Program except as expressly provided under GPL.

(7) As per point <4> of the very same included GPL, any attempt otherwise to distribute the Program is void, and will automatically terminate your rights under the GPL license.

(8 ) muaddib distributed the software in a different form as required by the license he choose to use. So, he failed to comply with (6).

(9) Since he did not comply with (6), (7) applies, so muaddib's rights under GPL were terminated.

OK, that was it. How many T (true) and F (false) did you get? T+F should add up 9.
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  #94  
04-26-2004, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Do you feel you can actually do anything besides calling your lawyer?
Is that why you're here?
Yes I know of a good number of things that can be done outside a court of law. I am not threatening them though. Merely stating that the situation is more serious than you may think. And it can get worse. Even the biggest companys have real problems with the public. Guys like the RIAA have dificulty keeping their website up for more than a few weeks at a time. Never think that you are exempt from people taking the same actions. None of us are invulnerable. And sometimes there is nothing you can do about it. But in this instance it could be very avoidable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Are you here to start a flaming war?
No I am here to issue a wake up call. I worked all weekend on that post just to make sure I didn't do that. Alot of people called it a waste of a weekend. And you should have seen some of the first drafts. I totally scrapped the first one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
I would feel offended although you have already prooved me before of being a civilized person. If back at doom9 or at any other forum (that most probably we're all members of) you can give a precious advise to Mr. shh, I believe you already noticed you will not change what we all feel here.
I know I was told that over and over. I hope I can be forgiven then for thinking better of the membership here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Now talking about civilized:
I would ask for all those posting here to keep your posts as objective as possible.

1 - Of course we all see that IF GPL will be accpeted in a court of law, maybe Mr. Muaddib will have to give his sources.
To which I reply not only has it been accepted in a court of law it has been accepted in many courts. Further it is a legaly recognized document in basically every industrialized nation of the world. And would go further to say not maybe but definitely that unless Muaddib can get shh to agree otherwise Muaddib has to give his sources or remove all GPL code.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
2 - Of course we are all in favour of free software and team work for the benefit of communities.
You need to show it though. Or you discourrage just that. I know several opensource and GPL developers who are steemed over this issue. Who were even prominent members here at one time. By disrespecting those who develop free GPL programs you discourrage them from doing so in the future. Muaddib's program would be almost unfunctional if it were not for the tens of opensource GPL components bundled with it. And I'm not talking about any of shh's code at this point. If I am not mistaken the installer contains MarcFD's Mpeg2dec3.dll, Nic's mpeg dll, and further the whole program relies heavily on Avisynth which Shodan helps to develop. And that is just for openers. There is also GPL work by Donald Graft included. Now Muaddib is not to the letter of the license currently violating their rights under the GPL. But he is disrespecting them. Imagine if any one of them were upset enough to stop releasing to the public under the GPL or similar license. Muaddib could no longer package them and his program would suffer quite a bit from their dissapearance. None of us want that. But that is just what could happen! Do you realize just how many open source and GPL components MovieStacker makes use of in one way or another?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
3 - Of course we all understand that Mr. Shh may or may not be using licenses/law for his own future benefit.
Shh may not use Muaddib's code without licensing his own program back under the GPL. At which time anyone including Muaddib would have the rights to use that code under the terms of the GPL. Worst case scenario is that you would have two identically functioning software. Software who anyone could take and moddify further under the terms of the GPL. Worse things could happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
4 - We all understand that, besides Mr. Shh and lately you Mr. Neo Neko, noone EVER asked for Moviestacker sources.
If that is a problem for you I think I can get quite a few others to request it as well. It is after all their right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Let us all look at this:
5 - Once Mr. Shh released FitCD under GPL and released it's sources.
6 - After some time Mr. Muaddib (and maybe other members of past FitCD forum @kvcd.net) asked for some slight changes/developments on some of the program features.
7 - Mr. Shh (politely or not!) informed the other members that since the source was available they could do the changes themselves (3rd person/plural because I wasn't even registered here)
8 - Mr. Muaddib reacted to this behaviour by making the changes himself and maintaining "his" new program under GPL (his crime as it seems...)
The GPL is there just for that purpose. So that anyone may take the code and improve it within the terms of the license. Shh did not have the time to make the moddifications requested by some and now Muaddib has not the time to remove the remaining GPL code. What makes one better than the other in your eyes? No one said that in order to write GPL code or code in general that you have to have a personality like one of those talkative yippy terriers. Some of the best coders are rather quiet and like their privacy. Milan for instance who develops the well known ffdshow implementation of Mplayer's ffmpeg library is a hard man to catch and not all that talkative. Koepi who works on the Xvid project tends to be quite serious and rather gruff all the time. You don't have to be a doormat to code opensource. It just helps sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
9 - As soon as 1st Moviestacker was released Mr. Shh asks for the sources. He is given some kind of sources that I have not really understood which at this time myself. By then Mr. Shh draws back.
Shh is not telepathic. None of us are that I am aware of. And in case they are that is what tin foil is for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
10 - Other releases happen...
11 - After one year Moviestacker 2.1.0 hits the 1st page of the news here and the next day here we have Mr. Shh claiming for everybody's/his rights.
It is possible that shh may have had other things going on IRL? I mean haven't we all from time to time? Or is it perhaps possible he was being quite generous giving Muaddib time to comply? Or perhaps both?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
I mostly obbey and go by the law.
But I'm also on the innocent/weaks side.
And here I have to make a judgement that may not be fair:
Do I stick with the law and by a margin of 10% of intellectual property support Mr. Shh?
Or do I stick with the weaks that REALLY tried to help the community when it most needed (as opposed to other that didn't care!) and support what now may well be 90% of intellectual property of Mr. Muaddib on that code???
No Mr. Neo Neko you may be right or wrong and I really don't care anymore as I already know what Mr. Shh was doing here this whole time.
And you have my promisse that I_will_always_support_freeware of any kind under any license and it's author.
It's just that I just don't consider Moviestacker based on Mr. Shh intellectual property anymore, unless prooven wrong!
Muaddib told you so. Kwag told you so. MovieStacker is based on shh's code even though a relatively small amount remains. By using shh's code Muaddib agreed to the terms of the license. If you got caught speeding on the road what law enforcement officer would let you go if you told him you simply did not know what the speed limit was? They would be risking their jobs if they did. I am all for supporting the weak. And that is why I am here. Muaddib has no one to blame but himself here. He knew it was GPL but did not take the time to find out what that meant. And now when shh comes back and makes a simple request that is his right under the GPL everyone here thinks the worst of him. Claiming that he is just doing it for his own benefit and to be a jerk. Muaddib the weak party? Hardly. He has the support of the site administrator and most of the people in this thread! You considder shh weak simply because he has the law on his side? I am so confused.................

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
PS-BTW Mr. Neo Neko. Being a Mod at Doom9, could you please see and tell us why a lot of members there seem to have difficulties understanding Mr. Jorel? I find that a big surprise because although his English is not perfect noone ever mistreated him here as I've seen at Doom9 even by those who are not regular members, out of not understanding him.
Please be so kind to see what seems to be the problem regarding this subject, and advise with me. Since both me and Mr. Jorel speak Portuguese there won't be any misunderstanding and that may help him in future visits there.
I am not going to talk about any of them here. I will simply say I am a bit more tollerant and understanding than some. Perhaps even sometimes to a fault. Fact is Doom9 is a fairly strict site. And for good reason. There are many things that I would do or have done at other forums that I would never dream of doing there. And honestly I can't pinpoint it. But in those latest threads for whatever reason jorel comes off a bit angry/hateful. I can honestly say you do excellent with your english. But has jorel tried machine translation? It is far from perfect. But if you keep it simple babelfish and others tend to get the message through. If I am not mistaken portugese is similar to spanish. I hardly know any spanish. I wont kidd myself I know more Japanese than I do spanish and I still have trouble expressing single simple thoughts in Japanese. But I can often read something in spanish or french and come away with the general idea. There are alot of similar words or words with similar bases. Especially when it comes to computer terminology. Jorel's english is just so broken that machine translation may be a good aid while he is learning. I know it has helped me a few times.
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  #95  
04-26-2004, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2
How do I delete my account from this criminal forum?
Well it is a form of protest. :P But I wish more GPL developers had the time to speak shortly on the discussion. Anyhow nice to see you Mr. Donald Graft http://neuron2.net/ author of the very excelent decomb plugin for Avisynth known on the file system as Decomb510.dll.

Quote:
Output folder: C:\Archivos de programa\MovieStacker
Extract: MovieStacker.exe
Extract: avsWARP.dll
Extract: rel_notes.txt
Extract: copying.txt
Extract: readme.txt
Output folder: C:\Archivos de programa\MovieStacker\Filters
Extract: aSharp.dll
Extract: BlockBuster.dll
Extract: Convolution3D.dll
Extract: Convolution3DYV12.dll
Extract: DctFilter.dll
Extract: Decomb510.dll
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  #96  
04-26-2004, 10:59 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
Anyhow nice to see you Mr. Donald Graft http://neuron2.net/ author of the very excelent decomb plugin for Avisynth known on the file system as Decomb510.dll.

Quote:
Output folder: C:\Archivos de programa\MovieStacker
Extract: MovieStacker.exe
Extract: avsWARP.dll
Extract: rel_notes.txt
Extract: copying.txt
Extract: readme.txt
Output folder: C:\Archivos de programa\MovieStacker\Filters
Extract: aSharp.dll
Extract: BlockBuster.dll
Extract: Convolution3D.dll
Extract: Convolution3DYV12.dll
Extract: DctFilter.dll
Extract: Decomb510.dll
So
We all know about his excelent filter(s).
What does it have to do with this issue

-kwag
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  #97  
04-26-2004, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
In the end Muaddib has no final say in the matter. He has already proven less than reliable.
Sorry but I don't think you have the right to come here and talk like about a person that spent his free time, developing a free software, getting no money from it, helping lots of newbies and so on for free. You registered today, and come here to talk about a person based on what you read on a thread.
No major disrespect to Muaddib but if he didn't take the time to do proper research for himself what about his work for others. Muaddib is not an evil person. And I think Kwag just comes off as borderline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
Your words are really hash on someone that has been here on KVCD.net only helping. Then you strike on Kwag and Jorel, people that has helped others for ages.
It's called tough love my friend. Oh and please help me if I am forgetfull. But exactly where did I say anything about Jorel? I don't remember having any big issues with jorel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
I think somethink is clear: Muaddib doesn't feel like to release the 90% of original work that now constitutes MovieStacker.
Sometimes I don't feel like obeying the speedlimit. But I still got a ticket, fine, and had to appear in court over it. And there have been times in the course of my life when I have felt like killing someone. But I refrained for what I whink are more than obvious reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
But of course, you don't give a dawn, you think this guy made a mistake, used GPL code in the begining when he didn't even know how to program, Now let's make him pay
Actually I do give a *damn*. Muaddib did make a mistake. But I don't want him to pay. Only to comply. I ask of him only what he owes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
Who cares if he's motivation is gone if your goal is fullfiled, you're not from here anyway.
I care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
Who cares if Muaddib discontinues MovieStacker, releasing sources or not? You don't use it, anyway.
Does not matter if I use it or not. I care. Had I not cared I would have written this forum and it's membership off long ago. Make no mistake I am here because I care ya big lug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
I understand why GPL was created and I know good things came from that. But I think you, shh and the so-called GPL supporters should understand that this is not another "Mplayer vs KISS" case. Muaddib didn't took a GPL code, did minor improvement and sold. He started a very long ago from GPL'ed code, and added so many features that the GPL'ed part became less than 10%. And still, giving away as freeware.
No one ever claimed it was an "Mplayer vs. KISS" case. Damn must have missed that one. I was there for the "Xvid vs Sigmadesigns" case and the "Mplayer vs Xbox Media Player" case. But I must have missed that one. But any how it does not matter if he has not made any money. Hell if he does not intend to make money then why not just release under the GPL as he is obliged to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
What I see here is a massive disrespect for muaddib, for a supposed GPL defense. It's very interesting that you feel the right to have muaddib sources, regardless of GPL.
I have the right because of the GPL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
I can't imagine how many hours muaddib spent working and bug-fixing his software, for you to come and say you have the right to look at his sources against his will. And yes, it's his sources. The fitCD derived work sources has been released, but it's not enough, you want it all.
Hell no. I don't want it all. I just want what he is legaly obligated to provide and has not to this date. Nothing more nothing less. Fact is if he and shh came to an understanding where shh gave him the rights to use the code in his closed source program. I would be just as happy. I personally don't have much use for the source code. Nor do I plan to do evil things with it. Muahahaha! *kof* I only want what Muaddib promissed even without his knowledge when he used shh's code. If shh waves him of his obligation to do so then I am just super hunkydory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
You are pushing Muaddib for his sources. You are making the guy feel bad, in exchange for what? If you do win, who will win in the end?
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Yeah I watch treak. What of it? :P Cases like this effect more people than you think. I would hate to see Muaddib go. But he needs to face his responsibilities and obligations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
So, regardless of the forum being an organization or not, regardless of what it's on GPL, if I were you, shh, I would leave this matter, just for decency. If you find someone around selling a slightly modified FitCD without source code, let me know and I'll even support you. But push a helpful person for his original work, for whatever license/reasons is wrong.
God we ask so little. You make it sound like we ask for his soul. What does Muaddib have to hide? Is he really opposed to having people donate code back to him to make his program better from time to time? Is he really opposed to taking constructive criticism about his programming so that he may learn to code better and make even better programs? If he opens the source to his program and people laugh at his coding skills I will type at them so much their eyes will hurt and they will get headaches. You know the ones. Migraines. Big honking migraines. The ones where you take the whole bottle of tylenol. YOU KNOW I CAN DO IT!!
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  #98  
04-26-2004, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko
Anyhow nice to see you Mr. Donald Graft http://neuron2.net/ author of the very excelent decomb plugin for Avisynth known on the file system as Decomb510.dll.

Quote:
Output folder: C:\Archivos de programa\MovieStacker
Extract: MovieStacker.exe
Extract: avsWARP.dll
Extract: rel_notes.txt
Extract: copying.txt
Extract: readme.txt
Output folder: C:\Archivos de programa\MovieStacker\Filters
Extract: aSharp.dll
Extract: BlockBuster.dll
Extract: Convolution3D.dll
Extract: Convolution3DYV12.dll
Extract: DctFilter.dll
Extract: Decomb510.dll
So
We all know about his excelent filter(s).
What does it have to do with this issue

-kwag
You mean you don't know? I know you know. Neuron2 A.K.A. Donald Graft is a very skilled, very well known, very influential GPL software writer. Who has left your community over your treatment and thoughts on the GPL and authors who use it. I though for sure you would not want me to repeat something so painful. Yet you ask me to repeat it again! Wow! His departure deminishes you all greatly. It would hurt any community to loose such an intelegent wonderfull member. I am dumbfounded. At a loss for words. Well not really. That almost never happens.
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  #99  
04-26-2004, 11:50 PM
glänzend glänzend is offline
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Hey, Hello

Ok people, Please stay on topic, this is about MovieStacker, and FitCd forget everything else.

Lets wait for muaddib and Shh to solve the issue.

Somebody left?

To bad so sad, how many post did he have again, how many people did he helped?
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  #100  
04-26-2004, 11:52 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Neko

You mean you don't know?
Of course I (we) all know. Don't try to twist the words. You know what I mean

-kwag
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