That's right. Same applies here, because it's the law, and the policeman is the law, and he/she has to give you a ticket. Right
Well, if you have a valid reason (moral), even though the law (GPL) has to give you a ticket (enforce), sometimes they don't give you the ticket
So, even thought the law is clearly written, some times it's not applied.
In this case, only a judge has the final decision, no matter how much noise the people make, or want other to believe in what they think is right.
Hope you get my point

-kwag

Yep same here in Portugal. Though I must say that traffic law is not an example: you can be caught speeding while driving at 10Kph if you crash against the car in front of you.
You were speeding because you couldn't stop the car before crashing even at 10Kph...
But yes, I can see some humor in what you said. I just didn't like the speeding tickets you mentioned: I've been given some too many times already
And BTW you seem like a very reasonable member .
Cheer pal

__________________
Rui

Well, to tell you the whole truth, I don't get caught speeding too often. But when I am, I don't really argue with the officer. It’s a matter of simple economy.

My way to see it is this: I've passed the speed limits several times, most of them unknowingly (in my country signs are sometimes plain stupid, and speed limits unreasonably low in certain areas), but fortunately there has never been a cop around so I was lucky to get away with it.

Adding up both kinds of situations, by paying the ticket when I actually (and seldom) get caught, for me it is "getting it cheap".

But think of this other situation. I drive my car, so I agree to abide by the transit law (i.e. GPL). Another driver, in a van, does the same, but misses a red light and fortunately I stop just in time to avoid being hit. When seeing my maneuver, he also stops. No physical damage done, but I got scared as hell. So I step down and approach to this guy van’s window, and say: Sir, sorry but you scared me to hell. What do you have to say about what you’ve done? (i.e. Program sources, please?)

And he says: I'm very sorry, please accept my apologies. I never meant to do you any harm. I was just thinking about how cute my new van was, and with all my fellows here in the back of the van celebrating, I got too excited. You see, I honestly got my driver's license recently but never read or understood all the actual details of traffic.

I say: OK, please refrain from doing it again. You may inadvertently hurt other people. And he says: I’m very sorry sir, thanks for understanding. I will be more careful in the future. I will also take my van home and won’t take my fellows out on it until I clearly understand this Transit thing.

And they live happily ever after.

However, what if, when I approach the van window and ask the question, something different happens.

Suppose one of the other driver’s good fellows gets pissed off, just because he dislikes me (we met some time ago), and tells me that the transit law is useless, that his friend is a good guy, that I’m not welcome on this neighborhood anyway, that I left to go to other neighborhoods and I must remain where I belong, and that he even thinks I passed a red light myself once, and he is almost sure about that, so what right do I have to ask for anything at all.

Then all the other fellows in the gang, which don’t know how to drive (i.e. users-only of GPL code), start to take sides for his friend, and then I go to talk to some other guys I know of, and ask if my manners were really that bad when simply asked “What do you have to say about what you’ve done?”

And then everyone in the van begins to question the very existence of traffic lights, or if red is really red or if it is orange, or yellow, and what those politicians know about what traffic really is anyway, making useless laws which are full of flaws… Some of them think so bad about me they even say that my actual intentions are to take over the other guy’s van because of a stupid traffic light!

And also some of my friends get too excited when seeing this mess, and start to defend Transit Law, and when no reasoning shown seems to calm this nonsense, they start to throw eggs on the van’s window, and everyone start to call each other names…

Well, you know the rest of the story. You get a street riot.

You know, I think that software developing is more an art than a science. To produce a great piece of software requires more than great ideas and brute force. It requires mood, inspiration, creativity, perseverance, iron will, and mostly… time, perhaps the most scarce resource in life today.

So you really need to be an artist for this. And artists are peculiar persons. We all enjoy some kind of music, and we do it generally without knowing very much about its author. Sometimes we even appreciate the work in spite of who created it. The same with a nice painting, or a good novel, etc.

There may be lots of artists that we actually don’t like in person, but they produce good things we all may enjoy. What is the point of harassing them, or insulting them, or saying bad things about them?

I think we should always remember this, and either give them support or keep out mouth shut.

Well, that was a long post. I hope it is not a stupid one

r6d2,
after read your last 2 posts i have another question.
why after my first answer you posted:
"....but I guess it deserves a separate topic."

nothing against your position but why another if you posted about radar,cars,
transit.....here in this same thread ?
see as a joke here but the first is serious.
why you don't answer here this 2 questions?



or do you want in portuguese?


i need you here too my friend please post what you know about backup copy law:
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10590

thanks!

ouch!

If I may summarize: you think that Neuron2, Nic, Sh0dan, Avery Lee, Suiryc (and many more), are NOT serious developers. Wow ...

Seems that Neo-neko is again bored enough to flood the forum...

__________________
Livlander

obligated?
you're a joker!
hey, what about an avatar? (he have to transmit your feelings)

you post too much (one after another), i need to re read in slow motion but you seems menacing in other post my friend. is needed that? why?

I think it's a good thing that there has been discussion about this issue. Sure beats the "I-downloaded-a-movie-off-the-net-and-want-you-to-convert-it-to-KVCD/KDVD-for-me" posts I've been reading way too many times lately. I almost did the same thing as Phil and was very close to stopping posting.

However, I still don't think it's wise to tell people like neuron2 to FO. Their work has been most valuable to each and every one of us. You just might not come to think of it too often.

Did I say that, or is that what YOU want to believe
They are serious developers. They just made the wrong decision when they selected the license. In my opinion. That's all.
What is serious, is that almost no SERIOUS company will consider their programs, and use them commercially. And that's a fact

-kwag

He's been deleted, and his information has been recorded now with our legal department. I won't even bother with him anymore. It's not up to me now.
Next time he shows up, we'll send his complete history with a beautiful letter to his provider, with some of his "higlight" posts.

-kwag

Who said that
Did I miss a post

-kwag

That was more like a general observation, now that the GPL stuff is being bashed around and Don is one of the most famous GPL-supporting people related to our "business" with video processing.

Because I think that the topic of cultural and language barriers deserves a thread on its own. It has little to do with "Program sources, please?"
Because I was making an analogy. Analogies are good since they describe complex situations in terms familiar to a broader audience. Sometimes you can see things in a way you might not have thought of.

If you read it through, you will see the direct link to the topic at hand, unless of course I'm a really bad writer.
Well, nothing personal of course. You see, I have also asked several direct questions on this thread and very few of them have been answered, if at all. In fact, you have answered none, and that's OK for me. I guess it's up to each of us to answer questions as we see fit.

But as you kindly insist, it would be very uneducated from my part not to answer. So I'll try. These are the two questions in your post (well, they are actually three):
This means that the person to which it is addressed has a great capacity for accepting and enduring punishment.
To me, the poster is pointing out a virtue of the addresee. If I was told that, I'd feel honored.
I actually don't know, but maybe to show his admiration?

I think a more correct way of summarizing Kwag's statement is that those developers which have chosen GPL are a minority.

Which is interesting, kwag brings up the minority subject, again considering it something plain wrong, just because it seems not to be the majority's opinion (according to his knowledge of the matter).

So my previous unanswered question arises again: Is it OK in this forum to have a minority opinion or it is just considered stupid "even beyond stupidity" by default?

And since I'm kindly insisting, I'd expect an educated answer.

Oi!

It is more than ok to have a minority opinion in this forum, the trick is that you have to post it with respect, and you are going to get answers that may or may not agree with, but you have to post your answers, with respect towards the other members.

Case in point, I beg to differ with your answer, about being a "glutton for punisment" I think whoever calls you that is saying your are a masochist, and that my friend is not nice.

Ciao
Glänzend

You got that right. How many commercial developers are in the world, compared to GPL developers
The answer it's pretty obvious. Because it's my opinion The problem is not about minority opinion. It's about a minority user, who didn't have anything costructive to add to this site, and his posts were beyond stupidity

Hey, about stupid answers, I'm aware I have posted stupid answers in the forum
But they were unintentional, or I didn't really read the post or just read it too fast, and I gave a stupid answer. This happens
And this is understandable. It happens to many people every day. But Neo-Neko's posts went far beyond the point.

On another topic, I was questioned why do I use GPL programs, if I'm against GPL
Answer is simple: I'm against the GPL license. Not the programs or the programmers.
They choose to select the license, I choose to USE the programs, but not develop my own projects as GPL.
For example, you might like "Kentucky Fried Chiken", "Evian" water, your great old ZX81 computer.
But even though you like all of these stuff, and you eat it or use it (depending what it is), you may not like the people who cook it, you don't lke the company policy, so you won't ever work for them, etc., but you STILL use their products, because they are EXCELENT
The same applies (to me) for using a GPL product.
Best example is Linux. I use it, but I won't develop any GPL program to run on it. I'll choose a less restrictive license.

-kwag

Beware then, in a moment of lucidity you may remove you own account.

Well, regarding the gluttonny matter, you would not believe it, but look at Webster's definition.

My point on that answer was that communication is a two way path. How things are said or what is meant always has some sort of subjectivity. You may think that being called masochist is not nice, but some people even use masochism as a way to be closer to the spiritual things, and they think that's good.

You surely have heard that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", well it's sort of similar. How you receive a message partly depends on your own personal history and mood. You have a choice about considering it an offense, or better not. "It's all about choice", according to The Matrix.

@r6d2,
I see your point: semantics, grammar, interpretation, etc...
Now let's look for a "moron" or "criminal" definition on webster's or any other online dictionary.
Man, I hate when I have to repeat myself but apparently noone is giving credit to some accusations that were made here or inwards here and that included members of this site/forum i.e. me for instance.
That I shall never forget.
It made me open my eyes and see that some people just don't stand by their reputation.
So let's put things straight, ok?
Some left, some arrived.
I'm happy that some oldtime members have now started to post in this thread while they hadn't come to KVCD so often .
They seek the same I did up until a few days ago: put an end to the differences between this forum and another one's members.
If they (you ) succeed I'll be more than happy.
If afterwards Muaddib and Shh come to an agreement I'll start making the arrangements to the party.
But...if in the end we see the opposite I won't be surprised.
Why? Because some people who blinded for their love to GPL accused Kwag and others of something they did ten times more: Flame!
And that brought us to where we are.
At the edge of the cliff.
Cheers

__________________
Rui

Hmm... The really important thing IMHO is how we interrelate being from different cultures and languages, and provided that plain text usually sounds much more harsh than intended.

Emoticons of course help, but they are not the panacea.
Personally, I can tell you than the reason I came back was precisely Moviestacker. I was (am) very interested on it since its appearance. Other than that, I did not come here too often because I see this site as the ideal place for 1 CD rip fans, which I am not, even though I gave it a try when first interested in encoding.

(I also gave this site the credit I think it deserves when I wrote my Complete Idiot's Guide.)

You know, I thought I could do some improvements to Moviestacker (as I also suggested to shh's FitCD with success). I was even tempted to ask the sources myself.

(Fortunately, I refrained on time. Perhaps local community would have thought I was trying to rip muaddib's work too, even though I was thinking he simply forgot to include the sources.)
Oh, I don't think we are still there. The matter has been settled at last, so we just have to be patient and Moviestacker will glow again on its own. Man, we waited for a year already.

i'm in doubt and sorry for that :
i don't know why you all came here and work so hard to an arrogant stupidity
trying to be so wise and no matter if it hurt someone,the important is that
you have to be honest with your own badness.if we don't accept your position we are minority. this is not an "interpretation" this is fact!
one from domm9 forum came here with another registry as a dictator breaking the rule from where he came, the adiministrator send the same recomendations for a member and is breaking his own law,no one came here to solve,only to menace and destroy and in the end you all are very wise...,but in your sick vision.see that i'm doing some questions here and there but i got the same: everything but not the answers.the very strange: why you all try to be so menace? the law of fear don't work with me...i am talking about what is happen and not what i think.
this is the resaon that i post again: you can think what you want or better , what your badness run driving your imagination in the direction of "doom". it can be energetic to your brain but will destroy your soul. this is the reason that from lots of forums ithey have the same position:
i don't go there cos they are so stupids...this is your international fame.
that comportament came from different cultures and languages.
see now in doom9 forum or in all hours,you have more visits than members all they long.everybody recognise your developers but can't have his friendship , they choose to stay as "guests" than as members.
this is not what i think,is another fact...go to the forum now and see the numbers of members and guests.
but this is not for all and i have to post again: i have good friends there,and will be my friends no matter what happen, my choice for that good friends there is international then we are not the minority.
you are right in all your visions but watching from wrong axis.
in the end,no matter what we think,matter what will be proove.
we can think what we want cos it don't change the reality.
this is the true with this horrible english!
see that i'm not against someone cos i don't know they in person,i'n against your positions and comportament.