Quantcast Should I Just use DVD Shrink or do a KDVD? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
05-27-2004, 06:09 PM
bigggt bigggt is offline
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Hi most of you know me here (no computer knowledge)but i can learn usually without too much trouble but i am going to get a dvd burner but have no idea on how to start kdvd or anything

1. if i want to put 1 movie on dvd-r should i just use dvd shrink or do a kdvd

2.What is the best encoder to use (i have used tmpge for ever but have been playing around with MEncodeME and packshot but obviously without a burner i wasn't doing dvd r)

I have lloked at the homepage and the only guide for dvd is by VM,is this the one i should follow because in the thread it has went to DIKO and i treid it and couldn't get CCE to work.

So basically i just want to know where to start to learn

Thanx
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  #2  
05-27-2004, 06:18 PM
Encoder Master Encoder Master is offline
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Quote:
1. if i want to put 1 movie on dvd-r should i just use dvd shrink or do a kdvd
If you want to copy a DVD-5 you can do 1:1 burning. If it's a DVD-9 delete some subtitels and not needed Audiofiles like DTS Streams or foreign languages. I recommend a shrink factor of 5 % not more because of the Quality and with mencoder its actually the same time.

Quote:
2.What is the best encoder to use (i have used tmpge for ever but have been playing around with MEncodeME and packshot but obviously without a burner i wasn't doing dvd r)
I don't test MencodeMe Yet but the results with Packshot und Mencoder are amazing and also with very low bitrate for ONE.CD.Endongs the Mencoder 2-pass mode is better than TMPGEncs CQ Mode.

Quote:
have lloked at the homepage and the only guide for dvd is by VM,is this the one i should follow because in the thread it has went to DIKO and i treid it and couldn't get CCE to work.
Extract the DVD with DVD Decrypter or DVD Shrink as one File and load the VOB in Mencoder (Pack-Shot in my case)and the values and start encoding. You will like the results.
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  #3  
05-27-2004, 06:35 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encoder Master
If you want to copy a DVD-5 you can do 1:1 burning. If it's a DVD-9 delete some subtitels and not needed Audiofiles like DTS Streams or foreign languages. I recommend a shrink factor of 5 % not more because of the Quality and with mencoder its actually the same time.
wow wow wow... slow down man.

Encoding the video with mencoder on your PC takes less than one hour (burning included - that's the time I need with dvdshrink !) ? It's not a PC, it's a space rocket

Moreover, encoding the video is not everything. Audio (2 else it's not funny), subtitles, menu, authoring... all that take hours to be done. Shrinking the DVD with a correct tool takes only 5 minutes.

Now, for the quality... Trust me you can go with dvdshrink 1.3.7 till 15% with no real problem. Above that and for no more than 20-22%, use DVD2One 1.4 (the versions are important, these are the last ones).

In fact I do KDVD only when I can shrink it in good condition. And in this case I do... a 2 movie KDVD

Quote:
I don't test MencodeMe Yet but the results with Packshot und Mencoder are amazing and also with very low bitrate for ONE.CD.Endongs the Mencoder 2-pass mode is better than TMPGEncs CQ Mode.
You're amazingly wrong on that point MPEG1 CQ mode don't have any challenger yet for KVCD.
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  #4  
05-27-2004, 07:19 PM
bigggt bigggt is offline
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Thanx for your reply's fellas

i must admit time is not really a concern for me i just want to get the best video and audio possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
In fact I do KDVD only when I can shrink it in good condition. And in this case I do... a 2 movie KDVD
When you say this do you mean you only use KDVD when you can't shrink it with dvdshrink to your satisfaction,i am not trying to correct you i'm just not sure what you mean

Thanx
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  #5  
05-27-2004, 07:33 PM
rendalunit rendalunit is offline
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Hey, I'll throw in my 2 cents since I just got my burner a week or two ago and I'm wondering if i'm doing things correctly too :P

I'm using MencodeME and I'm completely blown away by the quality and speed of this thing. With a dvd source I'll encode to KDVD full via avisynth with no filtering and set target media size to ~2000 mb so I can fit two movies on a dvdr. Also I'll put the AC3 audio track on there instead of reencoding it. With .avi sources or others then I'll encode to KDVD-half (352x480) and set media size to ~1400 mb so I can fit 3 movies on a dvdr.
Then I authored it with TMPG DVD author (it's the easiest one I tried so far) and if it goes over the capacity then re-author with DVDShrink to make it a little smaller.
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  #6  
05-27-2004, 08:36 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggt
i must admit time is not really a concern for me i just want to get the best video and audio possible
The problem is not the time for your PC to process the job. I'm speaking about hour you have to be in front of your keyboard !
These hours are hooouuurrrrrssssss

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggt
When you say this do you mean you only use KDVD when you can't shrink it with dvdshrink to your satisfaction,i am not trying to correct you i'm just not sure what you mean
You understood me well. I typed "can" for "can't" in my previous post.
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  #7  
05-27-2004, 08:54 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rendalunit
and if it goes over the capacity then re-author with DVDShrink to make it a little smaller.
I used to do that but be carrefull to not use long GOP. DVDShrink has big trouble with that. It's okay if you use standard GOP (15/1.

For the remainder I'm sorry but TRY ONCE a shrink a 15% with the last release and look at the result.
(Remember also that DVDShrink is the worst shrinker. Dvd2one is far better.)

And I don't even speak about forced subtitles that give you pain in the ass
with the handy method when you don't just forget them because you didn't notice their existence (not easy to understand the elves in LOTR with no subtitle, isn't it ?). The only think that make me sometime have regrets with the method is that I can't put more than one movie on the DVD with this.

But DVD-R are 0.6 each (less than 1$)...

Note: for avis I continue to do KVCD (mpeg2, long GOP) at 544*480 with tmpgenc at CQ90 and I also put 3 of them of the DVD-R. Try that...

Edit: I forgot to tell you to use the "deep analysis" mode of DVDshrink as it's equivalent to a 2-pass in encoders (this analysis is to create a log file and it takes almost as long as the work itself).
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  #8  
05-27-2004, 09:07 PM
bigggt bigggt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
These hours are hooouuurrrrrssssss
i didn't realize it was actual working time instead of encoding time

Now Phil by your remarks to rendalunit you would recommend dvd2one over dvdshrink in most cases

I admit i know nothing on this subject its just i though most people use dvdshrink
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  #9  
05-27-2004, 09:24 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggt
Now Phil by your remarks to rendalunit you would recommend dvd2one over dvdshrink in most cases
Yeah. But as DVD2ONE don't have a "predict" mode to see how much will be the compression before to start, I think that everyone try first dvdshrink.

You let it estimate the compression level and you decide what to do according to the value : use dvdshrink, use dvd2one or decide to do a KDVD.

Quote:
I admit i know nothing on this subject its just i though most people use dvdshrink
Now you know why you are right
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  #10  
05-28-2004, 11:31 AM
Encoder Master Encoder Master is offline
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@DialHot

Quote:
Encoding the video with mencoder on your PC takes less than one hour (burning included - that's the time I need with dvdshrink !) ? It's not a PC, it's a space rocket
No, no. My transcode with DVD shrink takes more than an hour inclusive burning so with ONe.pass it's actually the same time with my PC.


Quote:
You're amazingly wrong on that point MPEG1 CQ mode don't have any challenger yet for KVCD.
And can you tell me why?

I've testet a lot with Mencoder and very low bitrates and compare this with TMPGEncs CQ mode in MPEG-1 and Mencoder gives me better quality means less block and a homogener picture.
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  #11  
05-28-2004, 11:36 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encoder Master
I've testet a lot with Mencoder and very low bitrates and compare this with TMPGEncs CQ mode in MPEG-1 and Mencoder gives me better quality means less block and a homogener picture.
I guess you mean Mencoder's MPEG-2 produces better results than TMPEG's MPEG-1
If that's the case, yes I agree.
But Phil said "For KVCDs" using CQ mode, TMPEG is best, and this would be the case for doing MPEG-1 KVCDs with TMPEG.
If you can do MPEG-2 KVCDs, because your standalone supports MPEG-2 burned as VCD, then yes, Mencoder is better. At least for what I've seen.

-kwag
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  #12  
05-28-2004, 12:38 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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I must say that I didn't even think about comparing MPEG2 mencoder to MPEG1 Tmpgenc for low bitrates.

As I'm currently doing 'MPEG1 SVCD" that my standalone handles very well (while MPEG1 VCD are not), I can test MPEG2 SVCD encoded zith mencoder. I'll do that.
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  #13  
05-28-2004, 12:40 PM
Encoder Master Encoder Master is offline
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Quote:
I must say that I didn't even think about comparing MPEG2 mencoder to MPEG1 Tmpgenc for low bitrates.
Like kwag said, that's what I mean.

But actually the MPEG-1 Mode of Mencoder isn't realy good.
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  #14  
05-28-2004, 08:13 PM
Peter1234 Peter1234 is offline
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Dialhot.
I am not an expert, but in my opinion, at low data rates 2-pass VBR mpeg2 encoded with QuEnc using max GOP=24 and KVCD matrix is much better than TMPGEnc 2.521 mpeg1 KVCD. Since QuEnc and Mencoder use the same encoder I assume your results will be the same. I have not yet tried the new TMPGEnc, it may have better mpeg1.
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  #15  
05-29-2004, 06:36 AM
Encoder Master Encoder Master is offline
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But QuEnc isn't better then Mencoder. With MEncoder there are less blocks and it's a lot of faster.
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  #16  
06-02-2004, 09:50 PM
bigggt bigggt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
Note: for avis I continue to do KVCD (mpeg2, long GOP) at 544*480 with tmpgenc at CQ90 and I also put 3 of them of the DVD-R. Try that...
This is going to be basic but when you do this i don't understand how to author it if tmpge dvd author doesn't accept 23.976 framerate

please clue me in

going crazy here with all the new things i am trying to learn
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  #17  
06-03-2004, 03:26 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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I simply pulldown the m2v produced by tmpgenc
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  #18  
06-03-2004, 05:20 PM
bigggt bigggt is offline
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Thanx Phil ,I didn't think it would be that easy
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  #19  
06-04-2004, 07:02 AM
Encoder Master Encoder Master is offline
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You coul patch the Frame Rate with DVD Patcher and if you have athor it you have to re-patch it. Then it's ok. I think DVD lab doesn'z give you that problems.
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  #20  
06-04-2004, 07:06 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Chances are poor that it will works after that on the DVD standalone but why not...
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