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-   -   Sagitaire and mencoder (http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/lounge/13934-sagitaire-mencoder.html)

Dialhot 11-03-2005 06:20 PM

Sagitaire and mencoder
 
Hello.

This guy :
1/ post about mencoder in a forum that is not dedicated for that
2/ can't understand the difference between "the samples he encoded are compliant" and "the encoder is compliant".
3/ can't even understand what is MPEG2 !

I open a poll to close definitely his new thread.

Prodater64 11-03-2005 06:46 PM

Just ignore it and don't answer his questions or simply say, "here there are not anybody interested in mencoder.

Dialhot 11-03-2005 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodater64
Just ignore it and don't answer his questions or simply say, "here there are not anybody interested in mencoder.

Sorry Pro but :
1/ Ignoring him won't prevent people that read his message to think that mencoder is "the best MPEG2 encoder". It's not a matter with just me, it's a matter with all the forum. What do you think people will say with someone telling that mencoder is a super software while we closed the memcoder section of the forum ?
They will ask why it is closed, we will need to explain, they will ask why then sagitaire told other thing, and then... what ? We will tell "just ignore him" ?

2/ I can't speak for other people and simply saying "no one is interrested with mencoder here". I'm not interresting into something that is not abble to encode correct stream. I guess other people too. But I can't decide for others.

Edit: on an other hand, he said that the notch matrix is imcompatible (let me laught) with mencoder. So mencoder is not for KVCD/KDVD.

Prodater64 11-03-2005 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodater64
Just ignore it and don't answer his questions or simply say, "here there are not anybody interested in mencoder.

Sorry Pro but :
1/ Ignoring him won't prevent people that read his message to think that mencoder is "the best MPEG2 encoder". It's not a matter with just me, it's a matter with all the forum. What do you think people will say with someone telling that mencoder is a super software while we closed the memcoder section of the forum ?
They will ask why it is closed, we will need to explain, they will ask why then sagitaire told other thing, and then... what ? We will tell "just ignore him" ?

2/ I can't speak for other people and simply saying "no one is interrested with mencoder here". I'm not interresting into something that is not abble to encode correct stream. I guess other people too. But I can't decide for others.

Edit: on an other hand, he said that the notch matrix is imcompatible (let me laught) with mencoder. So mencoder is not for KVCD/KDVD.

Its the nice of the forums. Each one has his own opinion. I think that for that reason, D9 rule doesn't permit to talk about "what is the better".
Your opinion can be that mencoder is a bad encoder. Saggitaire thinks just the opposite, both explained yours positions, and it is all.

I worked a lot of time with mencoder. I only leave it when i was completely sure of its rc problems don't had solution. Let him make his own experience. If after many encodings he noticed that his DVDs don't play in his SAP, it is his problem.
So don't waste your time, is not worth (as it was not worth to speak to me same things, a long time ago) :lol: :lol: :lol:

kwag 11-03-2005 10:08 PM

I posted an answer to saggitarius earlier. He keeps rubbing old things that we have well documented, and he should actually start reading the forums so he can see that what he thinks, is totally wrong, and proven over and over by many people here.
Luis, it's not really an opinion. He's plain wrong, because the facts are clearly written and time tested :)
But people really start to piss me off when they start saying that a matrix makes non-compliant DVDs :nasty: :lol:

-Karl

Boulder 11-04-2005 01:19 AM

He has been proven wrong at D9 and now it looks like he tries to start the same discussion here. He thinks that SSIM and PSNR are directly proportional to quality :roll:

incredible 11-04-2005 07:20 AM

I dont beleive the fact 100% MP@ML compilancy due ONE encoding freak tells so. Even the "notch" point in his expl. is "paradox".

I have NO problem if someone tells:
"I did tests using a new line, it results on MY tests very good but still watch out as it could be non compilant - so do make tests on your own."

But he insists on facts which CANT be proofed only by using HIS SAP and even these facts do NOT 100% base on mpeg2 group facts.

So it will be verrry interesting HOW he will explain my Q's in there.

Quote:

SSIM and PSNR
I never used that, I do trust my eyes as these ones do directly see a diff. when comparing encodings on a TVset.
Everything else is "pure" theory. ;)

Prodater64 11-04-2005 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incredible
Quote:

SSIM and PSNR
I never used that, I do trust my eyes as these ones do directly see a diff. when comparing encodings on a TVset.
Everything else is "pure" theory. ;)

Our own eyes can be a great (or not) tool when judging video quality.
We need an objective parameter, that all can use to compare different encoders, filters, etc.
This is the correct way (science procedure).
I don't know if SSIM or PSNR are our reference, but its the only that there is, at the moment.
Maybe we need to correlate many videos with "our eyes" and SSIM and PSNR and see if the results match. But remember that "our eyes" method could be contaminated with subjectivity.

Dialhot 11-04-2005 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodater64
But remember that "our eyes" method could be contaminated with subjectivity.

And remember that maths can be fooled easily !
There is NO metrics that can testify the quality of a video.

Okay, fooling the PSNR has no real interrest, but stop thinking that a video can be resumed to a number.

kwag 11-04-2005 09:52 PM

Thanks for locking that crazy thread Phil :roll:
I just got in from work, so I missed the good stuff :lol:

-Karl

GFR 11-10-2005 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodater64
But remember that "our eyes" method could be contaminated with subjectivity.

And remember that maths can be fooled easily !
There is NO metrics that can testify the quality of a video.

Okay, fooling the PSNR has no real interrest, but stop thinking that a video can be resumed to a number.

That's why people in the audio world insist on blind tests, ABX, atc. The idea is to judge the media subjectively, but under controlled circunstances (so that your will for some result doesn't interfere with your judgement). Then you do this a lot of times, with many people, and do an statistical analysis of that. To say that A is better than B you need a significant preference for A in lots of tests. This way you can account for subjective factors that can't be measured by numbers yet (because we don't know how our perception works with enough depth) but you can still be "scientific".

Subjectivity is a good thing, after all the idea is to please your eyes and have joy when you see the media. The bad thing is when you fool yourself in thinking your eyes are pleased just because you want it to be.

Dialhot 11-10-2005 06:28 AM

Just a thing : Sagittaire started the same thread he tried to open here, about "best mpeg2 encoder".

Look at the thread :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=101735

... so much answer :D

Prodater64 11-10-2005 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dialhot
Just a thing : Sagittaire started the same thread he tried to open here, about "best mpeg2 encoder".

Look at the thread :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=101735

... so much answer :D

He started it, quite before posting here.
He did the same with a previous tests.
At least he is consistent with himself.

:D


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