war in Iraq
 

:cry:

yes friend really sad.

is not only my opinion...read please and if Kwag don't bore,please post too!

@ Kwag
my friend, if you don't like this thread please only delete it.
you don't will bore me if you do it!

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...highlight=turn

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/pt_index.html

http://www.cdrbase.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28475

:cry: :cry: :cry:

:?

3 diferents forums,3 diferents ways:

here,nobody post! :(

in cdrbase,my thread was closed:
http://www.cdrbase.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28475

but in doom9 forum,
lots of posts:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49276

:!: :!: :!:

:(
the forum was left alone!
online alone!

come on friends,came here.
the intention is not to blame,
i have lots of americans friends here and from many others countries too!

the idea is "talking about the problem" and
everybody have the right to express!

for me this is the most friendly forum and nobody answer me!
in cdrbase my thread was closed,but i got lots of pms from moderators,administrators and members.
in doom9 forum,now with 29 posts,more than 400 views in few hours!

waiting for a friend to talk and try to help in something...
or is better go to sleep?
:?
if anybody post here and "spit hornets",
don't bore,he have the right to give his opinion,
but plese try to help!!!
when it's all over ,we don't have to take the shame :
"this forum don't talk about the war,he was aliens"

thanks and waiting.

@ Kwag:
dear friend,if you want,i delete it all and i forget,don't want to bore you
and your page,only pm me!

:)

My comments are: "No comments" :wink:

-kwag

hi Jorel,

There are very many people in the world who feel the same as you about this war. Just one hour north of me in San Francisco, thousands of people have been protesting and marching in the streets. They are very passionate about their beliefs and so are those on the other side who support what we're doing and also those people that have children that are in the military over there.

This is a very sensitive subject :wink:

As for myself, I'll just say that I have no sympathy at all for Saddam Hussein and other evil dictators and I fully support our soldiers over there including our British allies and I hope this thing is over very soon.

ren

hi "friendalunit" :D
i was waiting for you!!

is very important your opinion for me cos i see that you are amreican!
as i wrote,
i have americans friends here too and was thinking of you when
post it....knowing you in forum and in the pms,i knew that :
don't matter about presidents and dictators,
i think in the kids,their family and in all kind of persons!
your news about your people is better post for you than in tv!
the beliefs are the same for all kind of countries,
"... thousands of people have been protesting and marching in the streets.", this is important!

thank you for post friend,.... :)
waiting a faster ending of it all!

Being british, i wish i could disassociate myself from what is happening. None of my friends support the action, and watching some of the images from iraq last night made me sick. They talk of weapons of mass destruction, and mad leaders having the abiltity to use them? well what we are doing now totally contradicts everything. 350 scud missiles were fired the other night! Thats far more than saddam could dream about getting his hands on - in one night - on a country which can't defend itself.

Sorry guys - from now on - no comment :cry:

Jim

I know i am going to get my but whipped for this. And a big a plus i am an american. The reason i justify the war is because if suddam was left alone he might be able to develop those weapons just as north korea has. Then most people would be asking the questions why didnt we intervene before he had the time to develop and use to negitiate like north korea is trying to do. I think that is total bs, and i know the US bombing Iraq is horrible, but if we could do it another way we would have. Iraq said it had complied with the UN, but are presently using weapons they should not have. Trust me i feel for the Iraq people, they are the same as us. But like many US spokesman have said, this isnt a war with Iraq, its a war against the Regime. Just felt i should say something.

Hello Jorel,

First of all, please do not misinterpret my response, because I certainly mean you no offense or disrespect in any way. While I realize that I really don't know you personally, (but then again do any of us truly know each other anymore since the internet came along?...another 1 of those "off-topic" discussions :roll: ), I believe it's safe to say that it is not your intent to cause friction or any potential flamewars here.

I also realize that this is an "off-topic" subject, and as such, you appropriately posted it in the "Anything not related to video" Forum.

While you (and of course, everyone) are 100% entitled to your/their own opinions on this horribly difficult issue, I personally don't feel that this sort of topic is particularly appropriate for this board, even if you did put it in the "Anything not related to video" Forum. True, it does technically fit the description given to the Forum, but that doesn't necessarily make it "appropriate". You have to ask yourself, what is this thread going to accomplish here? It's obviously a very sensitive subject that people will have differing opinions on, with no 100% right or wrong answers. I highly doubt that ANY amount of debate on the subject here within the kvcd forums is going to be of much comfort or very helpful to anyone, and it also probably won't change current world
affairs either unless both saddam and George happen to browse kvcd.net and see this thread and have an epiphany while reading it. (please excuse my attempt at levity during a bad situation).

But, we all do share at least 1 common interest here...video (and all things related). Afterall, this is a board dedicated to "KVCD Templates and Advanced Video Conversion"...at least, that's what it says at the top of the page. :roll: It's also one of the friendliest, nicest forums I've ever stumbled upon and have had the pleasure of being a member of. Let's please try to keep it that way by excercising good judgement and not delving into these types of potentially ugly topics or "gray" areas of discussion. Every time I turn on my TV, listen to the radio or read the newspaper, I'm already constantly being force-fed information about the war in Iraq. When I log on to kvcd.net to partake in my favorite hobby, the war in Iraq is just about the last thing I feel like hearing/seeing/discussing (actually, Rosie O'Donnell having "relations" with Michael Jackson is the LAST thing I'd wanna see...but pointless political debates on topics like war, abortion, the death penalty, flamewars, etc etc, would come in at a close 2nd place). I already went to college and I've had my share of these "what was Goofy anyways: a man or a dog?" debates (that's a reference from the film "Stand By Me" for those not aware). My point being, there really isn't much point. :roll:

There are many more suitable boards/websites that are designed specifically for political/philosophical discussions and debates of this nature (and the flamewars that inevitably follow them...I think we've all seen these kinds of forums..and we know how unpleasant they can be at times). KVCD.net thankfully is not one of these places. Let's do our best to keep it that way folks. :wink: That's my only $0.02 on this subject, or future ones like it.

Peace,
-d&c

I agree with dazed&confused that the KVCD forums aren't really a place for political debates and things that we are forced to listen to every moment of our lives anyway, but I myself am completely against the war in Iraq. I could spend ages explaining why, but as dazed&confused said, I don't particularly think that these forums are the place and I don't want to introduce more political disagreement.....so I'll just say that on:


I completely agree with you. :(

well I don't think that anyone will start a flame-war here, and I really don't have a problem to talk about this topic. I think nobody should be offended, and I don't see why one shouldn't post his opinion about this issue here. Of course it might lead to nothing, but still I personally find it interesting to hear other opinions than my own.

What I have to say is that I am totally against this war, because the way I see it, the Weapon-Inspectors in Iraq have just made promissable progresses in disarming the country. The Iraqi Regime has cooperated with the inspectors in a way they had never done before, so I really think it wasn't necessary to spill blood. I totally agree with everybody who says that Saddam is a very cruel and bad person. But the fact that this war is fought without a United Nation's resolution is the prove for me that it is not legitime.

Looking forward for any responds!

I agree Jellygoose. The problem is, after 9/11, the US and Britain don't want to give anyone any time. Disarming means disarming now, or face the consequences. The problem is, i think this war will create more problems than it solves...

hi jellygoose!

I'm with you- I enjoy hearing other's opinions on this subject. I'm not offended by other's opinions at all and i certainly don't wish to offend other's with mine.

i'm in the minority here because i do support this war. Saddam is a madman who IMO has got to go and his time is up. Please check out these links:
http://web.amnesty.org/web/web.nsf/pages/iraq_faq
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030123-1.html
http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea....htm#executive

ren

friendalunt and friends:
i'm not againt american people and you're not alone here my friend.

but reading what american government say is strange cos in tvs and newspapers i see only what he wants to show!
i'm in various forums now and the internet here is very busy!

i post only this that was copied from another forum,
and if you want i can post the url.....but see...this is not my opinion,read please:


Re: Iraq ... (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, March 22 @ 17:38:07 CET
I'm an ex Polaris Submariner and Sadam is no threat to the UK or the US.

Phoney Blair and Bush are hypocrits for instance, Israel has been in breach of Un resolutions for more than 30 years and has a nuclear reactor that should have been shut down more than 10 years ago because of its age and safety record. Is anything done,No, to much fear of upsetting the Jewish moneymen. does Ari Fleischer mention anything about it, no he probably sends half his monthly wages back to the motherland.

How exactly is Sadam a threat, he certainly doesn't have a missile capable of hitting the UK never mind the US(and I doubt he ever will) for instance Britain builds its own nuclear warheads, and Submarines but the polaris and trident missile systems we buy from the US. Why?? because we don't have the money, resources and technical expertise, if we can't do it Iraq certainly can't.as for selling a warhead to a terrorist, how's he going to achieve this Iraq has been locked down tight for more than 10 years, and believe me to build a nuclear weapon you need facilities a little bit more advanced than a garden shed. Weapons of mass distraction more like.

As for gassiing his own people, whilst I don't condone it, the Kurds aren't Sadam own people they are Kurds who have been fighting for indepence from Iraq for years incidentally they also want a bit of jordan, Kuwait, some other country and a bit of Turkey, who incidentally persecutes the Kurds aswell, ask the Turkish asylum seekers here in the UK. Incidentally are you aware that during the 50's and 60's the US government deliberately infected more than a 1000 black men in the deep south with syphilis, just to see how it affected them. Don't believe me, if your an American check the records they have now been made public. Has anybody been held to account? NO!!. There is also another much more shocking incident which I can't be bothered to go into, but it isn't conspiracy theory, its also been released into the public record.

As for who he got his weapons off, we sell planes to East Timor who use them against their own, but we did nothing, we have done nothing about China's invasion of Tibet(we have given them the Olympic Games). The US gives Israel 3bn dollers PA and all the tanks and helicopter gunships it wants(incidentally this is partly in exchange for unmanned drone aeroplane technology, which Israel was once the world leader in, we should give the Palestinians gunships and tanks so they can fight on an even keel, instead fo having to use stones and suicide bombers. We had Augusto Pinochet under arrest, and we eventually sent him home with a pat on the back and a sorry for the inconvenience old boy. other terrible regimes are Burma, North Korea and Saudi Arabia whom the US government protects from the people it abuses.

Some compare Iraq with Nazi Germany and say we did nothing then and look what happened. During the 30's Germany was destitute, but it had a very large population, vast reserves of timber, coal and iron, all the raw materials needed to build the vast Nazi war machine, Sadam has dates, wool, cotton and oil he can't sell, where's he gonna get the planes, tanks and ships is he going to knit them. Iraqs population is about a third of the UK's.

Also remember that the US is the only nation to have used a nuclear weapon in anger, which to a point was justified ( however us British suffered a lot more at the hands of the Japanese than the US did) but after the first was dropped they went back and did it again, which was unacceptable.
Chemical weapons read Agent Orange. Agent Orange is well and truly part of the Vietnamese food chain, where thousands of children are born with deformities every year because of it, has anybody been brought to justice. NO!!!

Doesn't anybody find it strange that apart from Phoney Blair and the spanish PM the only European leader who is behind Bush is Silvio Berlusconni( I have to wonder has Bush promised him a get out of jail free card next time he's caught with his fingers in the cash register.

As for the links between Iraq and Al Qaeda, Bin Laden hates Sadam. As for Al Qaeda operatives being invited to Iraq, Rumsfeld says they were staying with Kurds in the North. HELLO!! The kurds and Sadam hate each other.

The fact that Bin Laden is still at large(shows the ineptitude of the US military) cruise missiles do not make for a professional force(incidentally Chinook crashes seem to be a regular occurence, time to ground them i think), why do you think they call in the British and Australian SAS to do the really dangerous work.

As I said earlier Bin Laden is still at large, and somebody has to pay for sept 11. The twin towers was full of corporate money movers who, shift large amounts of cyber money around and cream off a massive profit in the process, and making a mess of our pension funds and getting away with it(shame about the fire-fighters, though they are your real community heroes. So the US and British government has picked an easy target who nobody likes and is using him to set an example Somebodies head has to roll, Sadams head is well recognised so well worth rolling.

On another note if the US is so keen to get people for war crimes why did Bush refuse to sign up to the international court, unless US troops were granted immunity. Why would he want this?? isn't justice meant to be for all.
And finally what about the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, which is occupied territory after all, they haven't had access to lawyers, they haven't been charged. Whilst I agree that some of them probably are Al Qaeda, most of them areTaleban Fighters afghanistans ramshackle militia army, (Taleban fighter is not another name for Al Qaeda) in my country some youngsters join the army to get off of welfare, have the US considered some of these may have joined the Afghan army for the prospect of a decent pair of boots and a decent hot meal every once in a while.

Just my two cents worth.

No doubt I'm going to receive some flak over this so if any Americans disagree, please feel free to contradict me with evidence, rather than just resorting to the standard American disagreement reply of your just a looser, a reetard and a mooron. (the spelling is meant to reflect the accent).

As I said I'm an ex Polaris submariner so have been privvy to the odd military secret or two, and my brother is a Lt.Colonel in the british army, he's out there now like he was out there the last time.

Incidentally, I think last time was justified to throw him out, does anybody know the reasons why he invaded Kuwait(No?? didn't think so)however if the US had been in the same position they'd have invaded aswell.

One last thing don't blame the French for the collapse of the 2nd resolution, the US and the UK were the only countries on the security council who were in favour of it. W e have now shown ourselves to be just as bad as he is. To you lars6843 I know exactly whats going on.

it's just one more opinion,like the government...wrote what he wants!
i don't see any "strange weapon" found in iraq,then in what can i believe??
and i saved many,many more posts in the world.
three of my threads are closed,but don't matter,i want to help to stop the war!!!
thanks!

Something that pis*es me off more than anything are the comparisons between Iraq and 1930's Germany by the media / government. In the 30's, Germany was a hugley powerful country with a navy, airforce and army which could compete with any in the world. Hitler marched from country to country, and invented then blitzkrieg (which the UK and US seemed to have copied for this war - only we call it Shock and Awe?). In the 30's, the rest of europe defended itself because it had to, although no one here in the uk could ever forget that the US didn't feel it appropriate to help until they themlselves were attacked.

Iraq now is a country which can't defend itself and has a cobbled together army, next to no airforce and poor weapons. Sure, Saddam is one bad man, but so is Mugabe. What about Chinas human rights record? What about the millions starving and dieing in Africa. And what about Osama?

I don't know what this war is about. President Bush today said; 'Don't be surprised if this is not a quick war'. This again contradicts what we were told only a matter of weeks ago when we were told that they could go in and get this done swiftly. Personally i don't trust Bush's intensions, and i think he's going to drag the rest of the world with him.

Jim

excuse me jamesp
:!:

the part of my post that you quote was not mine,
i copy and paste it here,not wrote or think.
this don't express my feelings and my english is horrible.
i can't write so clear in words like this.

"Some compare ....of the UK's."
i don't wrote this,
please read again my post,i don't edit the post..is the same!
:wink:

Jorel,

Jorel Friend. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. I know you didn't write the post and i wasn't really commenting on it directly. It was an observation in the Bristish Papers today which made another comparison between Hitler and Saddam. Your post just reminded me about it (and i agree with what it says)! I get upset about it because my Grandfather, and all of my fathers uncles were killed in world War 2. Thats why i think this war is so needless.

And about your english. I think your english is amazing! If i could speak spanish (or portuguese - i can't remember what the language of Brazil is?!) i would be a very, very happy man!

Because i have upset you, i won't comment any more on this issue because i never meant to.

Jim

jamesp,
really sorry about your family,friend!
as you know and feel,nobody needs the war...no one will be happy with war!!

my klinglish is boring...in another thread our friend Red-m misunderstand me ...the guilty was my english!
he read and misunderstand what i wrote and i correct all and now is all ok(i think and want)!!
in Brasil we speak portuguese...a little diferent from Portugal,just a little!

for this reason i post again here,someone can read it fast,misunderstand and shoot me,!!!!

you wrote too:
"Because i have upset you, i won't comment any more on this issue because i never meant to"

if i am understanding your intentions,seems that you don't want to post here no more! :?

please,don't do this...your opinion is very important and your english is clear.
i only was feeling "fear" that someone :punch: me!!
came here and stay.
your friend jorel!!

:wink:

Hmm...now that I think about it I don't see why we shouldn't discuss this here, so I'll go ahead and give my reasons for opposing the war.

Firstly, there was no second UN resolution. This means this war is completely illegal. We are told the Iraqi people want this to happen. How can this be true? This is just another example of information being "filtered for the public eye". Secondly, no weapons were found! Even if Saddam does have weapons of mass destruction, so does Bush! And in my opinion he is far more likely to misuse them. Even now he is attacking a completely defenseless country, and after this war Iraq's oil is going to be used to feed America's over-commercialised materialistic requirements. As well as all this, there is of course the small fact that a huge amount of innocent Iraqis will be pointlessly slaughtered. I keep hearing people report that soldiers encountered "pockets of resistance," these are people! They were obviously (and probably mercilessly) killed! How can people speak of them so calmly? We have also been SUPPLYING Iraq with weapons for years, and now we suddenly decide to fight them?! Is this fact advertised? No! Bush believes his country is the center of the world, can do only good, and whatever he decides is the right thing. Not to mention Tony Blair, still foolishly believing that "his country" will accept the fact that they are going to war just because HE SAYS this is right. What happened to democracy?? This is not a democratic system. People are made to believe it is democratic along with other things to give them the illusion of living in a happy world where problems are dealt with quickly and we only have to worry about ourselves. We are expected not to challenge the decisions of our leaders, and to follow the masses like sheep.......we can only hope this war will be over quickly and with few innocent deaths.......

If I have offended anyone I am sorry, but these are just my views. I may be completely wrong about this, make of it what you will.

i see from local iraq tv a child hurt and crying in hopistal!
..........and i see just a few the news!

in doom9 a new rule: :roll:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49457

but i save all pages about war before they close the thread and ever post:
"don't close this, just post your opinion without attack other member"....
was hard... ,many americans members ask doom9 and to the moderators
all the time:
"why you don't close this?"

closed thread:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49276

in cdrbase more 2 threads that i open was closed too!
was closed too faster, and i don't have the links!
but i got many pms from there!

:!:

hi Jorel,

Discussions about the war are encouraged here:
http://nonviolence.org/comment/viewf...94de1d2fdb87bc

I'll post links to any other discussion groups when i find them too.

ren

I think before I post my view I must sort out some of our assumptions. We either A. Believe the world (us/uk included) must help one another and try our best to make this world a better place or B. screw anyone who can't help themselves. If they aren't willing to make the sacrafice of generations to liberate themselves then they deserve what they get.

In a way, I think we all agree with B to some degree. Let the iraqi people have their own country and deal with their own problems. Let the UN deal with UN problems and the iraqi's deal with thier own civil problems. If they won't mount a defense for their wives and children, then we shouldn't be doing it for them.

I'm not trying to insult or offend anyone, but what more must a person do to prove he is wrong. What more must a people suffer to warrent their protection. Saddam and his regime are evil men by nature. They are not peaceful men, they have no love for their country, and therfore will never submit to the world of peaceful men through peaceful means. There comes a point when you quit negotiating, you quit batering deals, and you quit believing that ignoring a situation will make it go away. I think people compare this to world war II, not because sadam is anywhere near as powerful as hitler, or because he has comitted as many crimes. We compare it because he has the POTENTIAL to do MORE. Do you honestly believe that if sadam had the power, he would hesitate to destroy isreal, the us, great britian, the curds, or anyone else he could not force to bow down? Do you understand that sadam does not mistreat his prisoners, he tortures them and their families. Do you not see sadam hiding his troops in civialan homes, hospitals, and schools? Have you not seen what happens when iraqis speak out against their "leader"? Are these the actions of a man capable of peace?

I think the world feels that americans want everyone to be american, but this is so far from the truth. We do get over arrogant, in assuming we are the greatest nation on the earth, therefore have the greatest ideas. This is not allways the case, but the bottom line is, we will not tollerate being terrorized. And that nation has been terrorizing people for half a century.

/end rants and raves

-BC

hi friendelunit , hi bytecode!

once again, i'm not offended by anyone's opinion and i don't want to offend anyone's country, or culture or anyone. I regard everybody in this forum as a friend, and I know this doesn't belong here, but I think it's okay to exchange one's opinion and maybe learn from them.

I think we all agree that saddam is a very dangerous dictator, and that he is a criminal. and i'm sure the world WILL be better off without such a man, and you're right, he is not peaceful at all.
but what I'm saying is, when America is now starting a war against iraq, without a United Nations permission, with the reason that Saddam is a threat to the rest of the world, why can't India for example start a war against Pakistan for the same reason? Doesn't it all lie in the eye of the beholder? I know that many americans will shout now, and again, this is no offense to anyone!
The fact that is so disappointing to me is just, that America, as the role model of morality and democracy just doesn't seem to care about international laws, that they themselves passed. I think in the 21st century, it is the duty of mankind, to prevent every war that is not totally necessary. i was on america's side, when it came to the afghanistan war, just like my country (germany), who were one of the first countries to help the US in this war. but this now is totally different. it's just not like President Bush says, that there is evidence of mass destruction weapons in Iraq, and a connection to the terrorist networks. i know it's presented in such ways in america, but in other countries there are doubts.
I really love america, and I've been in Dallas, TX at september 11, when the bombings happened. I've seen their energy and how united the american people are, when it comes to crisises.
but when we now start wars against dictatorships, why don't we start with let's say north korea? this country has every mass destruction weapon, (including nuclear missiles), that america is still looking for in Iraq. the threat here is far more important to the world.

this is my statement, and again i don't want to offend anyone.

@rendalunit: I didn't know that the majority of the american people are against the war. Here in the news it's said that there are more supporters.
waiting for your reply! :wink:

@ ByteCode !
U are so right man and I've to agree with u totally!!!
I didn't wanted to post my oppinion on this WAR but when I see NEWS , when I see those trups that are going to fight for what is right ( and I'm sure it's right ) I just can't stand a side and do not nothing ( THIS is a minimum a can do ) .
What is happening with our world ? He hes got BLIND ??? Or nobody sees the great denger that our leaders see ???? Or Just NOBODY cares ???
Ya , I know some of u will laugh and some others will say that I'm talking noncense . Maybe , but recall plase World War II .
Than happened very same thing : EVERYone UK,France,US knew what are planes of HITTLER and what he can do but they did nothing to prevent that war and sacrificed 50 million lifes for nothing ?!!!
This is not happening today : Bush KNOWS what is in Saddam 's arsenal and He is afread that all of those Chemical and more dengerous Biological weapon will find a way to get to US or UK or any other country erond the world and rest I just Leave to your immegination .
Very skary thought , VERY !!!
So Let's wish that war will come to end sune as possible and Saddam or AnyOne else who is rulling in Iraq now will save lifes of hes own ppl and many OTHERS from another side who are just doing their jobs .
I hope and prey for all soldiers that they will go back to their homes and families live and in best health and Iraqian's ( too ) will find peace and prosperity .
Sorry to be sentimental but I know what war is , I know What is when troups are going to fight and I already have seen many of them dead too . :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :!:
It's traggedy and I'm so sorry that THE END of it is still far away .
bman

In most of the forums I've seen it seems most people can't wait to start flame wars, then get kicked out by the mods...but not here! :D

Some people must be very dumb to believe,that there are any WoMD (Weapons of Mass destruction)In Iraq.This alleged Threat was made up by the US Government (Cheaney,Rumsfeld,Wolfowitz) to legitmate a war,which has other Reasons that we all should know(Oil,Israel).After 9/11,especially Wolfowitz,pleaded for war an immediate war.The US Government just made up the suspicion,that Iraq has Links with Al Queda.But all informed people know, that there's still no evidence for that and there will be no evidence at all, because it's just a Lie to legitimate this war.All the people,who watch those NBC,Fox TV Networks cannot be informed properly, because those Networks are controlled by the Army,Government and the Industry, which will be the big winner of this war.Those networks are influencing the people with this fictious Threat.

The claim,that there are any WoMD in Iraq is very unlikely,if not totally wrong.And even if there would be those weapons,tey are still no Threat,because Iraq has no carrier systems to reach Europe or America.And people,who believe that there are any Nuclear Weapons in Iraq must be informed very badly.Cause,to have serious Nuclear Weapons,tests have to be made and those tests cannot be hide, like Bush is always lying.The chief of the International Nuclear authority,El Baradei,said that there had been no activities related with Nuclear Things,since 1990 by Iraq.To me it's unlikely that there are any Biological and chemical Weapons,as well.Hans Blix,Chief UN-Inspector,said that "big steps of Cooperation" have been made by the Iraq,and as we all know,No weapons of Mass destruction had been found in Iraq.Und also the doubtful Al Samoud Rockets have been destroyed in the limit of the prescribed time.The remaining rockets could not be destroyed, because Bush already gave his OK for the (Oil)war.

The US TV reporters have been dismissed, because they were not reporting objective.Reporters from other countries were allowed to stay in Baghdad, because they are not used as tools of Propaganda, which the US Government is pursueing more than Iraq.

I noticed, that a lot of people use the Argument, that saddam killed his own people with poison gas.That may be true,but when was did that happen?2001,2002,2003?
No,it happened 1995,that's almost 10 Years from now.And after that Attack,the United Nations immediately sent Inspectors to totally disarm the Iraq,unfortunately they have been dismissed from iraq,because the US Government used them for espionage,as can be proved.

So,for me there's no Legitimation for this war,and as we can see in Nadjaf the people don't welcome their self styled Liberators.

Well said Bytecode!!! Look what happened when they did not stop Hitler when they had the chance. He went on to terrorize millions.

When did they have the chance to stop Hitler?

You are always talking about how good the US and the UK were, because they fought against the Nazi's.But while they fought the Nazi's they teamed up with one, who was probably more evil than Hitler.

Yes,I'm talking about Stalin. The US and UK were Cooperating with a Devil, who terrorized Millions,as well.

And by the way, neither the US nor the UK defeated Hitler.It was Stalin,who won the decisive battle in Stalingrad.That defeat broke Hitler's neck.

I always thought that America (please note i am not anti american) has always been a little to quick to say that their entry into the war was the decisive moment that eventually won the war. The Russian winter was a killer for the germans, and killed a huge amount of soldiers. They never really recovered from these losses. Also, the resistance put up by britain during the battle of britain changed the course of the war. If we hadn't done that, the war would have been over before america could have entered.

But, i agree that Stalin was the biggest monster he has ever walked this earth. If i remember rightly, he is accountable for more deaths than any other ruler in history. What a great man to have as your allie.

Jim

I did not mean the US when I said we, I just meant the world in general.
Here is what I was talking about when I said we did not stop him when we had the chance.
http://www.ellonacademy.org.uk/histo...rhrineland.htm

digitalize,

Thanks for those notes, very interesting. However, I don't agree with them on the point about stopping Hitler. Surely opposing him militarily in 1936 (?) most probably would have brought the war forward. Germany didn't become a huge power overnight.

Jim

strange old "news":

http://www.awolbush.com/wherewasbush.asp

http://www.awolbush.com/

:!:

@jamesp, I don't wanna comment on the current war at all. But you should read up on your history lesson. Germany was _not_ a superpower at all before Hitler took over Germany. Infact, Germany was inflicted with sanctions since WWI. There was a big depression in all of Europe last in the 20ies and the beginning of the 30ies and really didn't have any army in particular. Then Hitler took over and he didn't give a hoot about the sanctions and he actually succeeded in overcomming the depression in Germany. He built a very stable infrastructure manufactured many needed things like the Beetle and lots of new roads. Unfortunatly he was a megalomaniac and also built a big army. Within a few years, Germany had one of the biggest armies in the world. In the history books it's often mentioned that if the countries that sanctioned Germany had stepped in and stoppped Hitler when he started breaking the sanctions inflicted upon Germany, we might have avoided WWII.

I just wanted to correct you on this matter and I hope I haven't offended you or anybody here. I just need to have the facts straight.

Canman,

I totally agree with you, Germany became a huge power after Hitler took over. However, he actually came to power in 1933. The document indicated that opposing him militarily in 1936-37 could have averted the war. By 1936 Hitlers germany was fast becoming that huge miliary power. I don't think that by opposing in 36 would have stopped a war, just brought it forward.

In fact, one of the things which contributed to Germany's hatred of the rest of the world were those sancations imposed after World War 1. Even in the British governments eyes, Germany was treated way too harshly and when Germany started violating those sanctions, the rest of the World let them get on with it because of the depressions those sanctions caused. How awful would history look if not only did we impose these harsh actions, but also after a horrible depression we take miltary action that starts a war. This is why i personally don't agree with imposing harsh sanctions (like those imposed against Iraq). They hurt the general public and create further rifts between them and the rest of the world.

Well, we will never know. You might think that WWII was unavoidable and I might think the opposite but lets face it, we will never know and we could probably argue about that a long time and never agree, so lets not argue about what we will not know. What we do know is that we did have a WWII and that a lot of innocent people was killed.

:roll:

more "strange" things:

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...8-032440-7289r

http://www.cdrbase.com/showthread.ph...hlight=%2A.%2A

:? :!: :!: :?: :!: 8O

I think what jamesp meant is not that WW2 was unavoidable.
If those sanctions wouldn't have been that hard, and maybe the victorious countries of WW1 would have helped to rebuild economy in Germany, this would have avoided WW2. Hitler wouldn't have had the chance to step into germany and start a revolution, because people would have been more satisfied with the political situation at that time.
I agree with jamesp that a war in 1936 wouldn't have changed anything. any war is bad.

According to the American Battle Monuments Commission there are 26,255 Yankee dead from World War I buried in 4 cemeteries in France. There are 30,426 American dead from World War II buried in 6 cemeteries in France.
===============================================
When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked
by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the United States has
sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for
freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."

It became very quiet in the room.

Ahh, so your opinion is that a country who unprovoked invades a country to seize it and then looses should not be punished at all. That imho would be the same, in a smaller scale, to let the known rapist go unpunished? Because that was what the sanctions against Germany were. It was means to try and keep the war mongers down, unfortunately as we know, it wasn't followed up upon and Hitler could roam freely. Besides the depression was in all of europe and not just germany.

Two things:
1. As I said we will never know. What your expressing is pure beliefs, nothing else. We might as well discuss what religion is the right religion.
2. But questioning your beliefs: You think it was better to let Hitler have the 3 additional years to plan for any thing and building extermination camps?