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  #1  
05-09-2009, 08:27 AM
SailsOnBlue SailsOnBlue is offline
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retain one other feature --
I notice that some disks have a slightly raised outer edge and hub - just a bit, which would be enough to keep them from grinding dust into each other when on a spindle. Hub-printables don't have that, though the latter seem to be more popular now.
So are there anti-scratch DVD-R and CD-R that retain the slight ridges?

Also, elsewhere it's advised not to use the "shiny silver" discs, but I don't understand the difference.

"You're best off buying one of the following discs for archival needs:
Verbatim (Mitsubishi) DVD-R or DVD+R, inkjet or branded (not "shiny silver")
Taiyo Yuden DVD-R or DVD+R, inkjet or branded (not "shiny silver")** "

thanks
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  #2  
05-12-2009, 09:41 AM
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Well, let's go over the first half of the request: scratch resistance.

Very few discs have extra coatings that prevent scratches, and beyond that, you would only want quality media anyway. Hoping I've not missed on, these are your choice for high-quality scratch-resistant discs:
The 8x discs are getting much harder to find, especially for decent prices, and the 2x discs are almost impossible to find. If you're interested in this type of media, buy it now! The Verbatim VideoGard is my suggestion, I've used several dozen of them, and was satisfied. I've also used a handful of the Maxell Broadcast Pro, and was okay with them -- the Verbatim was better.

B&H easily has the best prices on these Verbatim discs anywhere online (or offline), even after added shipping costs, so I'd get those.

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  #3  
05-12-2009, 10:30 AM
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Why avoid "shiny silver" media?

Shiny silver discs are the same quality, burn-wise, as other Taiyo Yuden media, but they are aesthetically ugly after some time has passed.

The shiny silver surface easily gets grimy from the oils and dirt in your skin, and begin to attract sticky fingerprint smudges after even minor handling, and even with the cleanest of hands. These discs were never intended to be bought by end-users and used as-is, these are manufactured with the intention of being printed on (silk screened) like any professional pressed retail disc is. This surface is perfect for bonding the that printing process, but unfortunately its also perfect for bonding with oil/dirt too!

And finally, the raised surfaces...

The outer edge of a disc is not intentionally raised, that's usually just sloppy glue work from that disc's manufacturer. Verbatim's Taiwanese media, for example, is almost perfect, with straight round and smooth edges, as it should be. Other discs, such as Sony-Daxon media, is a tad sloppy, with glue that bumped out beyond the edge.

It's hard to say if this is "right" or "wrong", necessarily. Taiyo Yuden, for example, had some bonding problems about a year or more ago, for a short time, and their discs are smooth and precise. Meanwhile, lower-quality media with bumpy edges rarely has such reports. I guess their solution for bonding is to use excess glue.

And the hub...

Disc hubs come in two basic types -- raised and "printable". Many of the printable discs have flat hubs, often so the print can go all the way to the center hole. The raised hubs are most often found on branded media.

In general, the raised-hub discs would be considered "more archival" because there is a natural spacing to protect stacked media. I would only use the non-raised hubs if storing in actual DVD cases, be it movie-style cases or jewel cases. They would potentially be damaged on spindle storage.

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05-12-2009, 01:50 PM
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Well, that saves some aggravation. I can drop by B&H, thus avoiding the garbage available at the local Staples/Best Buy, or waiting for shipment and hopefully finding stackable media, however small the difference may be.

What's a better (safer) way to store CD-R, DVD-R and optical disks in general rather than stacking? Something compact which offers some degree of safety for normal handling and transport.

Why would I want 2X? Or 8X as opposed to 16? 8X is plenty fast enough for my purposes as I'm ususally more concerned about whether the disk will be readable rather than getting it 5 min sooner.

--good info

Last edited by SailsOnBlue; 05-12-2009 at 02:06 PM.
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  #5  
05-12-2009, 05:29 PM
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The 2x discs are just older blank discs -- there's neither a reason to "want" or "not want" those discs.

The 2x/2.4x DVD+RW/DVD-RW work better on older DVD burners and DVD recorders, whereas newer 4x-8x discs can often give troubles in older equipment. The drives don't support the new RW revisions.

Storing in slim jewels cases is probably the safest way, although these can be a pest to store. The CD/DVD chests from Meritline.com are nice to store such cases.

Those safe chests come with either paper or cloth sleeves. The cloth tends to be more abrasive on discs, causing micro-abrasions on the disc surface that can refract light oddly, thus creating potential reading/playing issues. This is one reason wallets are frowned on for any sort of archival storage, especially on burned media. I guess it's okay if you rarely access the discs, but the in-out action can really scratch the hell out of the media on frequently-used discs.

Paper sleeves tend to work well, although they suffer about the same issue as hubs with no stacking rings. You can scuff the media, if pressure is applied, or if the discs are moved (for example, spinning a spindle on your finger scuffs non-raised hub media something awful!). If the discs are not accessed much, or possibly stored vertically with no pressure (as a chest would do), sleeves are great.

The only real concern with sleeves is the paper dust (including fine particles not easily seen by the naked eye), which can damage the optics and mechanics of players, burners, readers and recorders.

When it comes to jewel cases or DVD movie cases (now, also Blu-ray disc cases), just be sure the inner hub holder is not exerting too much pressure on the disc, as it can crack or warp the media. You don't want a hub that holds so tightly you have to warp the media just to pull it from the case. "Hollywood" movies and tv box sets are terrible for using this cheap crap, I've cracked several brand-new retail DVDs in the past 10 years of buying pressed releases -- and I'm far more careful than John Q. Consumer.

Spindles work well, too -- if the discs have raised hubs AND you keep the media in the dark. Light is a big enemy to burned discs, so keep those spindles and jewel cases in a dark closet, dark cabinet, etc -- never in the open room that is lit every day, ESPECIALLY if it's lit by natural light (the sun). I actually keep some of my spindles in an "open room" on a shelf, but I have black construction paper inside to blot out the light.

Optical media is, and continues to be, one of the poorest media to store. It's just so fragile and finicky. It's one reason consumers are not convinced that Blu-ray is "the next big thing" to take over DVD.

Solid-state is the future -- keep watching Toshiba, Panasonic, Kingston, Lexar, SanDisk and others. Some day we'll have integrated players in all television monitors, and all you will need is a terabyte-sized solid-state drive the size of half your thumb (but much thinner), both in write-once and rewriteable form, to store our videos (either bought retail, or made/"burned" by yrouself).

In the meantime, kudos to you for thinking about quality storage of your DVDs! Pick a good method, and take care of them -- they will last decades and decades if you do!

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  #6  
05-13-2009, 09:33 PM
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You've been very helpful and patient. I tend to be much more into details than most people (probably should have been an aeronautical engineer or pilot... there are few places where attention to detail is really welcome). I just picked up a starter spindle of Verbatims (no hard coat, that wasn't in stock).

"Spindles work well, too -- if the discs have raised hubs ..." Seems like both Verbatim and T-Y give you a choice: You can have the coating or a standard raised hub, *but not both*.

So I'm going to order a spindle of Vb coated from your link and hope for the best. My plan is to *carefully* stack them back on the spindle until I get a better plan worked out (I have limited space for the foreseeable and a short budget at the moment). I figure I should use slim plastic cases, plus a box of some sort to keep said cases (100 or fewer total).

Is CD-R as fragile as DVD? Same basic technology, so I'd assume home-burned CDs aren't much more reliable than home-burned DVDs.
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05-14-2009, 12:46 AM
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CD-R is far more fragile than DVD, because the foil and dye is unprotected. A DVD is foil and dye sandwiched between two polycarbonate platters -- thus protecting the "guts" of the disc on both sides. The only worry you have is scratching the disc on the read side, or others catastrophic damage (stepping on the disc, and shattering it, for example).

CD-R is not sandwiched. The foil and dye sit atop a single platter. This is why it is more important to avoid "shiny silver" CD-R -- at least a screened brand label is somewhat protecting the surface of the disc. As time passes, the environment slowly damages the top of the disc -- sometimes in just a few years on those really cheap "shiny top" crappy-quality budget blanks.

Inkjet CD-R is the best solution for CDs. Either that or a well-coated branded disc. Verbatim tends to be a well-coated branded disc, and both Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden off inkjet CD-R.

If you scratch the top or bottom of the CD-R, it's very likely to be damaged. It has two sides from which damage can occur, not just one.

DVD is an improvement over CD in many ways -- this is one of them.

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  #8  
02-16-2016, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
Why avoid "shiny silver" media?


And finally, the raised surfaces...

The outer edge of a disc is not intentionally raised, that's usually just sloppy glue work from that disc's manufacturer. Verbatim's Taiwanese media, for example, is almost perfect, with straight round and smooth edges, as it should be. Other discs, such as Sony-Daxon media, is a tad sloppy, with glue that bumped out beyond the edge.

It's hard to say if this is "right" or "wrong", necessarily. Taiyo Yuden, for example, had some bonding problems about a year or more ago, for a short time, and their discs are smooth and precise. Meanwhile, lower-quality media with bumpy edges rarely has such reports. I guess their solution for bonding is to use excess glue.
I have used a NAIL FILE to get ridged dvds like this to work. Not for wedding videos or anything, just when I was out of decent blank dvds and 'needed' to record a show off tv with dvd recorder.

I used a very good quality nail file (the kind made with industrial grade diamonds) because they allow for fine grade sanding of the outer edge of the top/label side of the ridge without much pressure.

I wouldn't try this with an emery board, and I'd be careful to remove the dust before recording--maybe a compressed air blast would be good? I'm sure I just blew on it. If one has accidentally recorded something important on a ridged disc that is now acting up, one might give this a careful try.

I had no idea about the glue, I just noticed that the more raised the edge, the more likely the coaster!

(If you are set for coasters, you can also do lovely (or funky) arts and crafts with the bad ones--just sand off the printing or paint over it. If you are inclined to make outdoor items, like wind chimes, be aware that without some extra coating, they will wear down to clear plastic out in the elements. Also, kids love to color on the clear ones from the spindle ends with Sharpies to make 'stained glass' window decorations, but there are probably some cancer-causing fumes emitted from the dvds and/or Sharpies, so only do this with other people's kids. )

Last edited by redbolter; 02-16-2016 at 03:27 PM. Reason: typo correct
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  #9  
04-26-2016, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbolter View Post
I have used a NAIL FILE to get ridged dvds like this to work.
The problem here is that the integrity of the glue may be reduced. So the disc is even more prone to now be a coaster. The best course of action is to avoid overglued discs, when possible.

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