DVD Recorder vs VC500 to capture lossless footage in VirtualDub?

Sirworm · #1 06-02-2019, 10:28 AM

Hello,
I'm planning to get a Sony SLV-D251P DVD Player/VCR Combo and replace my Magnavox (4 head, hi-fi). I heard that using a DVD recorder can provide incredible results, but with a capture card you have to be more careful. I have a Diamond VC500, and was wondering if using Virtualdub to capture tapes with no codecs and lossless quality would be better.

lordsmurf · #2 06-02-2019, 01:23 PM

I don't know where you heard/read that. It's just a lousy low-end DVD/VHS combo. Nothing special. Sony DVD recorders are actually some of the worst DVD recorders, very noisy encodes.

DVD isn't lossless anyway.

The "more careful" statement makes no sense. If anything, DVD needs more care, as the compression can shred maginal quality into unwatchable garbage. At least with a capture card, going lossless, you can filter/restore. DVD recorders are intended for high quality sources, not really VHS tapes, save for a few models known to clean up bad incoming VHS signals.

The VC500 can be fine, but not my favorite. Yes, use VirtualDub, nothing else.

I think you've been led partially astray by bad advice. Let's try to re-educate you propoerly.

Sirworm · #3 06-02-2019, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I don't know where you heard/read that. It's just a lousy low-end DVD/VHS combo. Nothing special. Sony DVD recorders are actually some of the worst DVD recorders, very noisy encodes.

DVD isn't lossless anyway.

The "more careful" statement makes no sense. If anything, DVD needs more care, as the compression can shred maginal quality into unwatchable garbage. At least with a capture card, going lossless, you can filter/restore. DVD recorders are intended for high quality sources, not really VHS tapes, save for a few models known to clean up bad incoming VHS signals.

The VC500 can be fine, but not my favorite. Yes, use VirtualDub, nothing else.

I think you've been led partially astray by bad advice. Let's try to re-educate you propoerly.

I probably have been mislead, I've been thinking all these months that using a capture card was worse than using a DVD recorder. At least my vc500 doesn't have to go to the trash.

Compression wise, I was worried that my vc500 would compress the tape a bit too much? I'm also a bit confused on why people use DVD recorders when they can be much more expensive?

Anyway, I'll go with my original pick for a new VCR and go with the JVC HR-S9600U.

lordsmurf · #4 06-02-2019, 05:16 PM

You need to be careful with the 9600. It was the best VCR, years ago. Was. The problem now is the dynamic drum gears and heavily failing in past years. Even my own 9800 decks are now retired, the DD gears are wearing. Only when no other deck will play a tape do I get it out, and then baby it along, coaxing it to cooperate.

Sirworm · #5 06-02-2019, 05:28 PM

In all fairness, all decks have their flaws. Wouldn't most gears on any machine wear down over time?

lordsmurf · #6 06-02-2019, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirworm

In all fairness, all decks have their flaws. Wouldn't most gears on any machine wear down over time?

No. That would assume all the gears are equal, and that's most definitely not the case. The DD is a tiny, fragile, crackable little SOB, and has become a bane to many JVC users in these late 2010s. You must remember these are 1990s built decks, and were probably never intended to last this long. I'm probably one of the most careful VCR/video users you'll ever come across, and even mine are not immune. The biggest variable seems to be time, environment (moisture/etc), and materials used to make the gears. Not so much wear from use.

Sirworm · #7 06-02-2019, 07:05 PM

Agreed, but I feel like this is a factor with most VCRs in general since their market nowadays lacks innovation. What JVC VCR won't have a worn out dynamic drum over time? This is probably a lot to consider but my eyes are still glued to the 9600. I fell in love instantly with it

lordsmurf · #8 06-02-2019, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirworm

What JVC VCR won't have a worn out dynamic drum over time?

For starters, all of the units WITHOUT dynamics drums.

9600, 9800, and 9900 are the only unit (worth mentioning) that have DD. Most JVCs do not have DD. In fact, some units based on the V10 chassis actually track EP better. The DD was intended to help track better, and it does work compared to most of the non-DD of the same era. But the DD tech was eventually deprecated.

Don't misunderstand me, the 9600 was a great VCR, and I'm part of the reason it's so respected online, having talked about it since the late 90s.

Also understand that I know how to fix most JVCs, but even I'm skittish of the DD units now because no replacement parts exist. Nor is there really a way to safely remove the parts from a parts deck (and usually, that part is broken, the reason the unit was scrapped). And none can be created on 3D printers yet, because that tech is still too new, printed items are not as fine or sturdy as required. So us 9600/9800/9900 owners sit on the decks, waiting for 3D to mature. In the meantime, most of us have found other JVCs, and sometimes the newer units really are upgrades.

It would have to be a truly minty deck for me to even consider it now.

JVC DD really is like Panasonic caps lately. You find more needing repair than not. At least the Panasonics can (usually) be repaired.

I don't want to seem down on the unit, but I've seen far to many people insist on the 9600/9800 lately, and it's just unwarranted. Like I said, even I'm not using my 9800 anymore.

hodgey · #9 06-03-2019, 08:16 AM

In europe there's also the 8600 that have it. (and 8500/9500 which lack the picture modes.)
I think the 8xxx models are mainy europe only.

Sirworm · #10 06-03-2019, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

For starters, all of the units WITHOUT dynamics drums.

9600, 9800, and 9900 are the only unit (worth mentioning) that have DD. Most JVCs do not have DD. In fact, some units based on the V10 chassis actually track EP better. The DD was intended to help track better, and it does work compared to most of the non-DD of the same era. But the DD tech was eventually deprecated.

Don't misunderstand me, the 9600 was a great VCR, and I'm part of the reason it's so respected online, having talked about it since the late 90s.

Also understand that I know how to fix most JVCs, but even I'm skittish of the DD units now because no replacement parts exist. Nor is there really a way to safely remove the parts from a parts deck (and usually, that part is broken, the reason the unit was scrapped). And none can be created on 3D printers yet, because that tech is still too new, printed items are not as fine or sturdy as required. So us 9600/9800/9900 owners sit on the decks, waiting for 3D to mature. In the meantime, most of us have found other JVCs, and sometimes the newer units really are upgrades.

It would have to be a truly minty deck for me to even consider it now.

JVC DD really is like Panasonic caps lately. You find more needing repair than not. At least the Panasonics can (usually) be repaired.

I don't want to seem down on the unit, but I've seen far to many people insist on the 9600/9800 lately, and it's just unwarranted. Like I said, even I'm not using my 9800 anymore.

Ah well, that's a tragedy. It's now a bit more complicated knowing that, yes the JVC VCRs that had the DD were sometimes better at tracking than VCRs with no DD, at the expense of the DD wearing out

Any VCRs that could potentially/somewhat match the 9600? I'm probably going off-topic so we should probably continue discussion in pms.