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  #1  
08-16-2015, 03:35 PM
Reading Bug Reading Bug is offline
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Hi all,

The purpose of my post is really twofold. Though discs are becoming less popular, I have no intention of abandoning them and would like to plan for the future. I have two of the older Pioneer optical drives with the NEC chipsets that the Mac Pros used to call "SuperDrives" (the model is DVD-RW DVR-112D). They're both still in my 2008 MP and I plan to keep them there for quite some time, but I ultimately want to keep them as long as they work since they aren't made anymore and are so highly regarded (meaning I'd like to get use from them beyond the computer's lifetime, if possible). Therefore I don't want to let good options pass by between now and then. So... I know external enclosures for internal drives have been around for a while, but as time goes on, I'm wondering if they're becoming less common and/or lesser in quality. Any general thoughts about where they've been, are and may be going are welcome.

The second part pertains to my drives in particular. I don't really know anything about enclosures other than their basic purpose. Is there any particular brand or model still made today recommended for those drives specifically? Or perhaps no longer made but highly valued from some years ago that would make a search worthwhile?

What other qualities or features should I look for? Is there anything specific I should look for beyond matching basic tech specs (i.e. SATA compatibility) or anything to avoid? With the age of my computer and the shrinking popularity of discs, I'm getting the feeling I should act early. Is this smart?

-- merged --

As a follow-up...

I've since learned that the Pioneer drives use an IDE/ATAPI-7 interface and therefore have no enclosures that will accommodate them (at least none made anymore). I contacted Vantec and they suggested hooking the drive up without an enclosure using an IDE-to-USB adapter:

www.amazon.com/Vantec-CB-ISATAU2-Supports-2-5-Inch-5-25-Inch/dp/B000J01I1G

This looks to me like it will work, even though I'm not crazy about handling the drives "bare." A few questions though:

1. Will this indeed work?

2. Is there anything to be especially careful about when doing this?

3. Is there any reason to believe the quality of the drive's operation - especially burns - would be any different with this setup?

4. Are there any products available for achieving this same end result other than Vantec's adapter, or are they the only game in town for IDE optical drive hookups?

Attached are Pioneer's manuals for the drive, in case anyone wants to look at the tech specs. They're also available on the web here:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...rives/DVR-112D


Attached Files
File Type: pdf Drive Installation.pdf (185.4 KB, 0 downloads)
File Type: pdf FAQs.pdf (149.7 KB, 0 downloads)
File Type: pdf Media Speeds.pdf (48.7 KB, 0 downloads)
File Type: pdf Product Overview.pdf (97.8 KB, 0 downloads)
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  #2  
08-19-2015, 09:09 AM
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Drive enclosures have always been very hit-or-miss. The initial Firewire enclosures were a nightmare, from what I can remember, and latter USB2 were not much better. The thing I remember most is that you needed an Oxford chipset in the enclosure, as everything else would reject optical drives.

I have some Samsung/Sony external drives, but they're not as good as the internal SATA or even IDE drives. The Pioneer were best for writing (and really good at reading), while the BTC were best at reading. BenQ was best for testing, with Plextor and LiteOn coming in next.

Honestly, no, external enclosures will never work. The tech was design to be internal.

Even when Oxford was used, the drive's cache would go nuts, and you'd always have buffer underruns. That resulted in bad burns. Or "good" burns that were actually not good when tested.

Never, ever, use that Vantec adapter. Or a clone. It's terrible, even for HDD. I've actually seen that thing kill drives. Internal drives were not made to be used external.

Promise made some excellent IDE PCI cards. If you ever need to add a IDE drive to a SATA only motherboard, and it has enough PCI open, then this should work. It had XP drivers for sure, but I've not looked for anything later. I actually have 3 of these cards, and would be willing to part with one for a few bucks if anybody ever asks. (I may post some more stuff on the Marketplace forum later this year, as I want to downsize my 5 boxes of computer hardware.)

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  #3  
08-19-2015, 10:10 PM
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Thank you for your reply, LS. Trying to get experienced and reliable advice elsewhere is really difficult. I know I can rely on you guys to cut right to the issue and in plain English.

First, I will return the Vantec adapter.

Second, it's clear keeping everything internal is the way to go, which means making an IDE-to-SATA connection. Is a PCI card the best way to do this? You also say Promise "made" an excellent card. Is that no longer the case? What would make them different now, if the cards are still available?

Third, would a card like this also do the trick?

http://www.amazon.com/HDE-SATA-Drive...dp/B002Y2NI4M/

or

http://www.frys.com/product/5983774

Thanks!

Also, I appreciate the mention of the card you'd be willing to sell. I ask about what's out now so you don't have to part with what you've got (I'm also a little concerned about driver issues).
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08-20-2015, 08:46 AM
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I looked online. I have the Promise Promise Ultra133/Ultra100 TX2, and they officially work with only XP and Vista.
Unofficially, it may work with Win7 x62.
RE: https://social.technet.microsoft.com...7itprohardware

You just need to find a good PCI ATA or PCI express card, if needed. Now that I think about it, the Promise was also hit-or-miss with optical drives. But I'm not sure if that was due to the motherboard and CPU being old and slow (P4 generation).

I may or may not just recycle those cards.

Honestly, stick to name brand hardware for this exact need. Vantec is best.
Amazon is $10 cheaper than Newegg: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...42IKEIO2NZ4L5A

But it's PCI express. I'm guessing you have a new system?

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  #5  
08-20-2015, 04:07 PM
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I'm actually still on my old system, and hope to be for a good three or four more years (perhaps longer). This inquiry is to anticipate a solution for when at least some of my current tech is considered obsolete. It looks like I'm close to the wire as it is now.

However, my next system would be a Windows machine and I would anticipate it having PCI/PCIe. As I'm zeroing in on what I need, is there any reason to believe PCIe will be supplanted, replaced or otherwise rendered obsolete in the next, say, five to ten years? It seems pretty darn dominant.

Thanks.
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08-21-2015, 05:11 AM
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5 years - PCIe will probably still be the standard (look at PCI, having been here since the 90s)
10 years - probably a legacy slot on some motherboards

That's a long time to look forward. In 2005, I had no ideas that what exists now would have existed at all. Imagine 6tb hard drive, or fanless CPUs in tablet that runs Windows! It's just mid-blowing. The jump from 1985-1995 and 1995-2005 was even more amazing. I didn't use them for the entire 1975-1985 decade, but I did play with early 80s models (and they were not at all user friendly). I've always considered computers tools for tasks, and not video games. That's what Pong and Atari were for!

Since my age is showing, I think I'll stop there.

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08-21-2015, 10:05 PM
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You can keep going. I'm a younger guy but I still look at computers as tools as well. And really dislike how quickly tech can become outdated when trying to continue using those tools. Hence this thread

It is a long time to look forward to, yes, but I'm hoping this hardware will last and I can use it until the very end. Which is why I'm doing this legwork now so I'm not surprised and out in the cold later. I may be young, but I've learned from experience to Buy. It. Now.

-- merged --

Also, in thinking about this, wouldn't a future OS need not only Vantec's firmware for the PCI card, but also Pioneer's latest firmware for the optical drives? Which could be who knows how many years old by then? If so, I need to consider that as well, yes?
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08-25-2015, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reading Bug View Post
wouldn't a future OS need not only Vantec's firmware for the PCI card, but also Pioneer's latest firmware for the optical drives?
Yes.

This is why we're all locked into Windows XP, regardless of the hardware we're running. Thankfully XP runs on almost anything, even including new hardware for sale today. Whether or not that scenario exists for future hardware and OS remains to be seen.

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08-29-2015, 11:43 AM
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Thanks LS.

So, if searching for a copy of XP to run on a custom-built PC, is there a specific description I should look for? "OEM," "Full Version," "System Builder" etc? Or a specific service pack? I have an existing copy of XP running on the Mac as a virtual machine, and it was described as including just the COA (SP2). The Windows packaging itself calls it OEM software and it has an authentic product key, along with the "only for distribution with a new PC" disclaimer.

Would this be what I want here as well?

P.S. On ebay I'm see a lot of cheaper (mostly Dell) reinstall discs being sold. Should I avoid these?
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08-29-2015, 12:01 PM
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These days, honestly, you'll probably have to get a not-quite-legal version. Find somebody trustworthy that has an original install disc you can copy. Torrents have copies, but there's also the risk that it's been infected with something nasty.

XP came out 15 years ago, and new copies are no longer sold. Even used copies really are not sold. Microsoft just needs to "copyleft" it for us folks that still require the OS. Seeing as how Vista, 7, 8, and now 10 have taken it's place, it's not like they'll lose out on market share by doing so. It's just goodwill on their part. (And they need always need goodwill!)

It needs to be at least SP1, and depending on what else is on the system, SP2 or even SP3 may be required.

I would avoid a "reinstall" disc, yes. Most auctions will be bootleg XP copies, no matter how genuine the auction looks.

Most people can find a copy somewhere, which is why I've never spent much time on "where to get XP" as I have with so many other products.

If you simply insist on buying a legit copy (you hope), then eBay and Amazon are your best bets.

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  #11  
09-05-2015, 12:51 AM
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In thinking about this operation, I've done some more research and have a few more questions regarding my hardware options.

1. In looking at the Vantec card recommended earlier, as well as other cards like it, the general impression I get is that success with IDE hard drives is decent and success with IDE optical drives is very hit or miss. Is using a PCI connection really the best option overall? Would it be better to use a motherboard with an IDE interface, if they're still made? If not, how about an adapter that provides connection straight to the motherboard, like these:

http://www.amazon.com/Parallel-DVD-R.../dp/B003AG79GO
or
http://www.amazon.com/SYBA-ATA133-Bi.../dp/B002OEBO6E

2. If the PCI option is indeed te best, how does Vantec compare to a card that is better reviewed like this Star Tech one? What makes Vantec better?

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-E.../dp/B000YAX13Y

3. With PCI cards, what qualities should I be aware of? Would something like transfer speed capability be an indicator of quality or power, especially if optical drives are finicky?

4. What are the chances any of these options - PCI, adapter, etc - will damage the optical drive? Especially PCI if it's hit or miss?

Thanks!

-- merged --

Here's another little adapter that seems like an option: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=8968484
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  #12  
09-07-2015, 01:02 AM
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Just pay attention to who made it. Syba is good, Startech is good.
That Raygo device looks interesting, but I've never heard of them. Lots of adapters are too good to be true. I'd probably avoid it.

On new builds, I like PCI express options.

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