Quantcast TMPGEnc DVD Author - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
12-12-2004, 08:25 AM
dminches dminches is offline
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I am using this for the first time and I am bit confused. Maybe it is my lack of understanding between the relationship between a track and a chapter.

I have imported a .vob file and I would like to cut out some material from the beginning and add chapters so that I can skip to parts of the video when I view it.

When I hit "source setup" I have one track on the left and one clip in the middle.

I then hit "edit clip" and now am trying to add chapters. I move to the beginning frame and at the point I want the chapter to begin I hit "add current fram to chapter." The frame shows up on the right and indicates that I have a new chapter. I did this 5 times resulting in 5 chapters.

I hit ok and then go to "create menu." This is where my confusion starts. I don't see the opportunity to add text for each of my chapters, leading me to believe that maybe I don't have any chapters. All I can see is the ability to add text for tracks. So, am I confusing tracks and chapters or does the software not support chapter skips in the menu even though I seem to have made chapters.

Let me know if you need additional information to help me with this.
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  #2  
12-12-2004, 09:05 AM
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Follow up. When I burned the DVD I only got the opening and no chapters. I am obviously doing something wrong.
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  #3  
12-12-2004, 12:41 PM
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Ok. Here's where I am.

I figured out that I need to have one title for the 16 minute segment. I have cut out the material that I do not want and selected the frames to begin the 5 chapters. I did edit the chapter titles, created the ISO file and burned.

The DVD plays, it has 5 chapters, but I do not see any of the title page formatting that I seemed to have created. Any thoughts on why?

I find the software pretty easy to use, but it isn't very robust. What product is at the next level in terms of complexity?

Thanks.
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  #4  
12-12-2004, 01:29 PM
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Authoring can be complex. But tools like TDA are meant for newbies. It's dummy friendly. It's overall pretty dismal software, ease-of-use aside.

Ulead DVD Workshop 2 (from ulead.com, and with 2.011 updates and patches) is not hard to understand, and has a drag/drop interface with decent controls. It's not super-simple, but not complex either.

Refer to the authoring intro guides on digitalFAQ.com. "Tracks" is another term for "VTS" (Video Title Sets). For sake of argument, we'll call each new video a "movie".

Each new movie usually needs a VTS of it's own. You usually do not merge them into one big file, nor do they often all have the very same video/audio specs.

Chapters are bookmarks in the VTS. You assign a chapter mark.

It sounds like you used TDA to edit your files. Bad idea. Use editing software to get the files perfect. You want to import perfect ready-to-use files into an authoring software, at least in ideal situations.

I do not know what you mean by "title page". TDA has strict limits on the menu. You cannot create much. All you can do is change fonts and images. The linking is out of your control. DVDWS2 gives you linking control too. DVDit! PE is also a good option, though no motion menus or multi VTS there (NOT v5 of DVDit!, but PE 2.5).

Another post on this forum has covered good software for authoring, with price and where to buy it:http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=120

Read over that one.
If you have the money to spend then Ulead DVDWS2 is worth it.
If not, then DVDit PE 2.5 is good 2nd choice.



+++++++++

Note:

Beyond that, you tend to have programs that are complex for no reason, or software that costs more than a car/house. The "complex for no reason" software is based off a "pro" interface, which means nothing. Pro software was largely made in the mid/late 90s, and the interface is engineering-style, and most pro software comes with training courses (you attend seminars!). The non-pro but "pro interface" software, of course, has no such training. You're left high and dry. DVD-LAB and ReelDVD are perfect examples of this kind of software. Old and kludgey.

Authoring should be a quick process. You should spend time making menus, not making the software work. My belief, at least.


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  #5  
12-12-2004, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin
It sounds like you used TDA to edit your files. Bad idea. Use editing software to get the files perfect. You want to import perfect ready-to-use files into an authoring software, at least in ideal situations.
From reading the guides it seems as though I should be editing in, let's say, Womble. If that is the case can I use this process?

1 - Capture/transfer using my Canopus 100 and Scenalyzer
(What format is the file in? .avi? MPEG?)
2 - Edit in Womble (can Womble edit .AVIs or do I need to convert first?
3 - Author in TMPGenc DVD Author
4 - Burn in Nero

As you can see, even after reading your guides I am having a bit of difficulty getting the "formats" straight. When I rip a DVD I get .VOBs. This is an MPEG format, right? I assume I can edit this in Womble as I would a .MPEG file.

Sorry for all the questions.
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  #6  
12-13-2004, 10:54 AM
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1. CAPTURE

Your capture method is fine.

2. EDIT

Womble MPEG-VCR is an MPEG editor. Must be encoded as MPEG first.

Since you are capturing AVI, do not waste time encoding something you'll throw away later. Edit the AVI, then encode. Save time.

I would use Adobe Premiere, but a free software for DV footage may work for you: Avid Free DV... and maybe the Procoder Express plugin. I've not yet tried this method, but I will soon. My only "question" is what MPEG encoder may plugin to Avid.

Avid Free DV is .. well ... FREE! .. like the name says:
http://www.avid.com/freedv/

Adobe Premiere Elements is the "DV" version, for $100:
http://www.adobe.com/products/premiereel/main.html

You are capturing DV footage, so perfect NLE's to edit with.

3. AUTHOR

That's one method. I only use this software for quick VCD->DVD transfers or for no-menu authors.

You mentioned wanting more powerful authoring abilities, so again, I'd suggest Ulead DVD Workshop 2 or Sonic DVDit! PE 2.5 instead.

4. BURN

Perfect. I use Nero 5.5.10.56 for my burning.


++++++++++++++++++++

MPEG is a video format.

MPEG also has an audio format, but it's not used much on DVD, at least not by pros (MP2 audio). Audio can be DTS, AC3 Dolby, or PCM WAV/AIFF.

DVD-Video format needs files that are 1GB each max size, and conform to a certain pattern. VOB is the solution. It makes 0.99GB files that have audio/video and other navigation/subtitle info in the VOB.

A VOB "contains" MPEG video and an audio (or multi audio!), but it is not "an MPEG" itself. You cannot often edit VOB because of the non-video/audio stuff inside. It must be demux'd with a tool like VOBEDIT or even TMPGENC (FILE -> MPEG TOOLS). Demux (demultiplex) is to separate data back to elementary forms.

Video on a DVD, when authored on a PC or bought in the store, is in "DVD-Video" format. This is the "format" of most DVDs. This specifics an AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folder, with the VOB, IFO and BUP files inside.

(DVD recorder discs use DVD+VR or DVD-VR format, not quite the same, it's an "active" format, and these VOBs are almost completely audio/video. Some use VRO, not VOB.)

You probably cannot edit VOB files in Womble, not unless they are from DVD recorders.

Hopefully this has cleared it up some.


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  #7  
12-13-2004, 11:00 PM
dminches dminches is offline
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Thanks for your help. You explained things well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by admin
I would use Adobe Premiere, but a free software for DV footage may work for you: Avid Free DV... and maybe the Procoder Express plugin. I've not yet tried this method, but I will soon. My only "question" is what MPEG encoder may plugin to Avid.

Adobe Premiere Elements is the "DV" version, for $100:
http://www.adobe.com/products/premiereel/main.html

You are capturing DV footage, so perfect NLE's to edit with.

3. AUTHOR

That's one method. I only use this software for quick VCD->DVD transfers or for no-menu authors.

You mentioned wanting more powerful authoring abilities, so again, I'd suggest Ulead DVD Workshop 2 or Sonic DVDit! PE 2.5 instead.
One would think that there would be a good package (is there?) to do the editing and the authoring. I realize they are somewhat different tasks, but all I want to do is take raw video, clean it up a bit (edit), put in menus (author) and convert to a format to be burned.

On the pure audio side one can accomplish this with Soundforge or Cool Edit 2000/Pro.
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  #8  
12-14-2004, 09:01 AM
dminches dminches is offline
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Last question and then I'll put this to rest. It seems as though the editing tools are more limited for .AVIs than for MPEGs. That is why I was considering encoding and then editing. I've heard really good things about MPEG editors like Womble and other packages but little about the AVI editors.

Finally, what's an NLE?
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  #9  
12-14-2004, 07:48 PM
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Editing and authoring are two separate functions.
Consider this...
Do you like all of the programs that come included with Microsoft Windows? Probably not. Wordpad is a poor excuse for a word processor program, and Solitaire isn't the most riveting game. We got lucky that Internet Explorer is decent, but that's often debated. Windows is one HUGE program. All that code bogs it down, and nothing is really top-notch because of it.

Programs do exist, called "all-in-one" applications, but nobody ever really likes them. They're often buggy and stripped of advanced options. Most users have horrible experiences. Pros use separate software, and for good reason.

There are not many steps to video conversion:
1- Capture (restore/filter as needed)
2- Edit
3- Encode (restore/filter as needed)
4- Author
5- Burn

(NOTE: An "NLE" is a non-linear editor. While most editing softwares could probably, technically, be called NLEs, most people generally use the term "NLE" for advanced editing software like Adobe Premiere, Sony Vegas Video, Canopus Edius, and Avid editors. These are what you might call "AVI editors".)

You can flip "edit" and "encode" steps ... sometimes.

It all depends on what you call "editing". Again, while this could technically refer to ANY KIND of alteration of the footage, most people generally exclude cutting/splicing/merging or simple fades (in/out) from the definition. Editing is usually used to describe altering audio tracks, video tracks, lots of special effects, etc. Merge/cut and fades are not really the same as "true" editing. Real editing always requires a full re-encode of the video

You can merge/cut or add fades to MPEG files, after an encode. Splicing footage just dumps or adds to your file, nothing more. The fades only re-encode the few seconds where implemented. Neither of these functions requires a full re-encode of the video. Womble MPEG VCR, Womble MPEG Video Wizard and VideoRedo are three excellent programs for this.

MPEG is a final product format. Aside from fades/cuts, you want to NOT touch the file much. If you need to edit, use an AVI (uncompressed, DV, HuffYUV, MJPEG), as that is a WORKING format, intended for editing, not a final product.

Is that clearing things up a bit better?



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  #10  
12-14-2004, 10:46 PM
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Yes, very much. I am comfortable with the capture, encode, author and burn steps. I haven't done any real editing up to this point since most of my transfers are going straight to DVD. Your comment about not wanting to edit MPEGs and instead work with a "working format" cleared things up quite a bit.

As to your point about "all-in-ones" I was referring more to the edit/author steps. It seems as though Adobe Elements does that, but it seems more suitable for DV than anything else. That may work well for me now since I am using a Canopus 100 to transfer.
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  #11  
12-14-2004, 11:08 PM
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Yes, most of those DV centric editors (Premiere Elements, for example, what I call a mini-NLE) have limited authoring ability. None of them are very advanced. If you're not impressed by TDA, you certainly won't be thrilled by the authoring done by those mini-NLEs.

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  #12  
12-14-2004, 11:14 PM
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It sounds like I may want to check out Sonic DVDit, as you suggested.

I assume I can edit the AVI in DVDit, use TMPGEnc to encode to MPEG (instead of DVDit since everyone likes it so much), author in DVDit and then burn?
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  #13  
12-15-2004, 12:07 AM
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No. DVDit! is just for authoring. No editing.
If you want to edit those DV files, use Avid Free DV or Adobe Premiere Elements.

Then encode, usually using some sort of export command. I need to install some of these new DV NLEs and see how they react to MPEG encoders. I'm flying a little blind on this part.

And then take the MPEG and import into an authoring program, to make menus and the likes. Many authoring applications can also burn quite well (TDA does not work well!).

Later today, I may instal Avid Free DV and reinstall my Canopus Procoder to see if it plugs in. Maybe not.


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