Bitrate Too High in UleadDVDW2
 

I am preparing to create the DVD folders out of DVDW2 for a subsequent burn using ImgBurn.

Before I can proceed, I get an error message that the total bitrate for the title is too high. I have attached screenshots of this error, the selected disc template, and the DVDW2 MPEG encoder parameters.

It seems DVDW2 limits me to an 8000 vbr max as it's range is stated 1775-8264. But my output from the Adobe Premiere MainConcept 1.3 MPEG codec was done at 6500 min; 7500 avg; and 9750 max (oops).

So I assume I must re-export from AP and constrain the vbr to an 8000 max...agreed?

Should I use cbr instead and set to 8000 (since my title is 57 mins)?

Also, the disc template used by DVDW2 says it is NTSC 4:3...and nothing else is available in my installation of DVDW2. I have been using 16:9 for this project all along. Will the desired 16:9 aspect not be accommodated by DVDW2 ?

Ignore the settings in DVDWS2 -- those are ONLY for re-encoding from within DVDWS2. You never want to re-encode video in authoring software, that's not what it excels at. Although Ulead uses the MainConcept engine, Ulead's limited range of presets aren't all that great. Keep encoding using Premiere, as you've been doing. Adobe uses MainConcept, too, but with user-adjustable settings AND better presets (if you use presets).

The warning message, however, is valid. Your total combined bitrate of audio+video exceeded the 9800kbps max. You can lower the video to 9400kpbs, and be fine (this would allow for 384kbps AC3 audio).
-- Or 9300k if you used 448k AC3 audio.
-- If you use PCM, which is 1.5Mbps, then you'll need to put video at closer to 8000kbps.

You made an "oops", yes. Easy fix, if you still have the NLE files/source and can re-export.

Should I compress my 443Mb .wav file to AC3 to avoid a re-encode of the video? Should I use VirtualDub for this?

I only have a fade-in/fade-out of the audio on the NLE which I can do through DVDW2, right?

Will that take care of the bitrate issue, or is a video re-export from the NLE (AP6.5) un-avoidable in any combination?

...and should I stay with vbr instead of cbr for efficiency?

Duh, I think I should convert the .wav to AC3 in SFPro10...right?
Do you recommend a particular AC3 (Dolby Digital Pro or Studio)?

Nah...I can't use that either. The only AC3 in SFPro10 is Dolby Digital Studio at 192kbps.

Audacity 1.3.10 offers AC3 (FFmpeg) export in the range 32-640 kbps, so I would use 448...ok?

There must be something I don't understand about the workflow. Ulead can't open AC3 audio files...so how am I getting audio to the project DVD folders? Direct placement into the AUDIO_TS which is then brought in by ImgBurn?

I guess this means I must apply fade-in/fade-out for the menu audio .wav in Audacity prior to exporting the AC3 from it. Is this correct?

p.s. I apologize for all the quickly successive (and some un-necessary) questions as I've been trying to prepare for the correct burn.

The audio for the main title is a 641Mb .wav, not 443Mb I said above.

Convert the WAV audio to AC3, yes. Ulead DVDWS2 actually does have an option to convert audio to AC3, but it can be tricky sometimes.

You convert to AC3 after you've finished your audio work in Premiere, Audacity or whatever you're using to edit the audio.

If your export is a multiplexed ".MPG" file (audio+video together in same file), then you'll just need to demux it to elementary streams (M2V for video, WAV for audio). I use TMPGEnc Plus to demux, but BatchDemux works, too.

For the best quality WAV>AC3 option, see this: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...-ac3-1465.html -- Only $29 for that one.
For a freeware method, see http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...3-mp2-407.html -- that one uses FFMPEG, which is okay but I suggest TMPGEnc.

To import AC3 in Ulead, refer to the guide at http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...-dvd-1506.html as well as some of the posts below it. I know the import process was discussed at length, in detail, with forum member Superstar earlier this year.

You never use the AUDIO_TS folder. It's empty at all times. It is for use by DVD-Audio discs (and on those, the VIDEO_TS is empty, if present).

Yes, stay with VBR for efficiency, if your video is longer than one hour (and being burned to single layer DVD-R or DVD+R media).

.... and I think that covers everything? :)

No AC3 import to UleadDVDW2 ?
 

When I attempt to import the AC3 audio file into UleadDVDW2, the Load Audio File dialog will not permit a file of this type as a supported format. And when I force it to browse all files types and open in this dialog it gives an error as "Unable to open file. File format mismatch."

So I looked in the online manual. See the attached screen shot. There is a listing for "Dolby Digital" but does not declare the file extension like the other formats listed. In any case, I can't open it.

This is perplexing. Did I misunderstand that DVDW2 can work with an AC3 stream?

I followed the Superstar thread you pointed to. I didn't see anything directly addressing the audio import for AC3 into DVDW2.

Is my dumb newbie light on again?

You have to have the full registered legal version, in order to use AC3. Note that the trial, hacked version, etc, do not support AC3. Dolby Digital = AC3 files.

I don't know where you're trying to import the AC3 file. There's honestly no reason to "import" the AC3 at all, into an audio-only area. This is what you do instead:

1. Import the M2V video files into the asset manager window on the lower left, in the video area
2. Drag it to the "timeline" at the bottom of the screen
3. Now double-click it, in the timeline area, to change to edit mode
4. On the upper left side are several tabs, pick the audio tab
5. Here is where you import AND attach audios to your video. Audios, plural. You can do one track or multiple tracks. Available formats include WAV (uncompressed PCM), MPA or MP2 (MPEG audio), and AC3 Dolby (2ch or 6ch).

I believe this is shown on that guide. (Not watched it in a while, admittedly, however.)

Thanks, but I'm already well past getting all the source assets where they need to be. And I know how to load the audio...in several ways that it can be done in DVDW2. Like the screen shot shows...AC3 is not listed in the Load Audio File dialog...which is where all these access methods end up.

Your first comment was the answer:

I'M WORKING WITH THE TRIAL VERSION!...geesh!

Just trying to see if I can get through this first authoring before I commit to all the software to be utilized in my workflow...only I keep running into these walls with disfunctional software versions. Like SFAS9 vs. SFPro10; UleadDVDW2 trial vs. the "real" thing.

So much for evaluations huh?

For tax reasons I wanted to purchase after January 1...good grief.

So I re-render out of my NLE: AP6.5 for 8000 vbr in order to get my project burned tomorrow (hopefully by 2:00pm).

Should I anticipate any problems with ImgBurn - which I haven't used yet?

If this is for a client, and it needs to be 100% DVD-Video NTSC compliant, then yes, re-encode to 8Mb/s video. If that is not required, then I would just re-encode as MPEG Layer II audio (MP2, MPA). Sound Forge can export as MPEG audio. That will save you a lot of time.

Although MPEG audio is not officially supported by the NTSC spec, it is by the PAL spec. And because most all MPEG decoder chips found in DVD players are made for worldwide use, most DVD players (NTSC or PAL) will play MPEG audio just fine. I've actually only run across maybe 3-4 players in the past 8-9 years that would not play MPEG audio. Most of those were pre-2000 machines, too.

I don't remember if the file extension needs to be MPA or MP2 for DVDWS2 to see it. Try MP2, and if that doesn't work, rename to .MPA instead.

Some of my personal DVDs use MPEG audio, and I've done MPEG audio for clients in the past, at their request.

Super!...I'll give that a shot.

DVDW2 will take .mpa or .mp3 for MPEG audio.
I can just rename the SFPro10 output file extension to .mpa ?

I don't need the 100% NTSC compliance and would prefer the quality.

Watch...knowing my luck...one of my friends will have the glitchy DVD players that won't read it. Should I just buy them an updated player? ;-)

In DVDW2 can I have the menu audio as .wav and the main title then in .mpa? ...or is that asking for trouble with mixed audio?

Also, I notice that SFPro10 produces .sfk and .sfl files. What are these for? Are they supposed to be linked in to the DVD authoring?

I first saw the .sfk when I used the paragraphic EQ filters for the .wav file in SFPro10.

Although the .mpa (renamed from .mpg from SFPro10) will play on my media player, DVDW2 claims it contains no audio data when I attempt to Load Audio File...so much for that idea. Is this another trial version manifestation or is the SFPro10 output split among the .mpg, .sfk and .sfl files?

MPEG Layer II (MP2 and MPA) is not the same as MP3 (MPEG Layer III). Don't use MP3.

WAV is suggest for a menu, yes. No issues with mixing audio in DVDWS2.

The .sfk/.sfl Sound Forge files are temp junk files. In the Sound Forge preferences/options, you can set these files to "hidden" as well have them deleted after SF closes. There's no use for these, or reason to keep them. New ones are generated all the time, just temp/swap files for SF.

You cannot "rename" a file from WAV or whatever else to MP2 or MPA. The audio must be converted to MPEG Layer II audio format. The extension can be either MP2 or MPA. For use in DVDWS2, it needs to be MPA (as you stated).

Perhaps I had a problem with the SaveAs settings in SFPro10.
The default .mpg template is for audio at 44,100 Hz and 224kbps.
GSpot reports the output .mpg as MPEG-1 Layer 2.
I thought we were supposed to have MPEG-2 out put from SFPro10?

***

I customized the output for 48,000 Hz and 384kbps.

***

Nope, that's not it either.

...well at this point, I'm going to go all the way back to Adobe Premiere and re-render with the video set for 6500 kbps min; 7500 avg; and 8000 kbps max and leave the audio alone as PCM/WAV which are already set in DVDW2. I can't seem to figure out the .mpg/.mpa use in DVDW2...sigh!

I know you can't just up and rename from .wav to .mpa !!!

Of course were talking about first converting to MPEG Layer 2
I'm using the only SaveAs under DVDW2 for MPEG-2 which includes .mpg, m2v, m2t, .mpa ... that's it. Since DVDW2 insists on the .mpg extension (even though .mpa is listed) I then rename the .mpg to .mpa per your 9:59pm post.

Am I supposed to be SaveAs MPEG-1 ?

I'll set prefs in SFPro10 to lose the .sfk and .sfl files.
Thanks for the tip. :-)

When it comes to conversion and renaming, I never assume anything anymore. I've been in and/or seen posts all over the place online where a person says they are "converting" a file, but it turn out they "convert" by just changing the extension.

Always double-check these days! :D
Good to know that you're aware of the very important difference here!

The .mpg file exported from SoundForge may have been a multiplexed MPEG file. There was no video, but it had other junk in the file beyond the audio stream. Try to properly demux the audio in TMPGEnc or BatchDemux (TMPGEnc suggested).

MPEG-2 refers only to the video format. There is no "MPEG-2 Audio' format.

There is not an "MPEG-1 Layer II audio" either. Gspot reports the name wrong, the creator of the software just doesn't know any better (or made a mistake when creating the software). MPEG-1 refers only to video. It's simply "MPEG Audio" and you want the Layer II version (mp2), not the Layer III version (mp3). Both mp2 and mp3 can be renamed to "mpa" as the mpa extension is generic. Same for "mpv" and MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 video. This is one reason I truly detest mpa and mpv extensions.

Your choice of 48khz and 384kbps was correct. :)

I would take some screen shots of these things for you, but I don't yet have SF9 installed on this system. Other systems with SF installed currently unavailable. Will see about getting the SF10 demo here.

You mentioned DVDWS2 in the above post, but I'll assume you really meant SF. There is no "save as" in DVDWS2, aside from saving the entire project (menus, asset locations, etc).

I hadn't thought that SF might mux the output.

Of course I've seen a lot of comment about TMPGEnc throughout the site. Can you synopsize what it's best use is and where it makes sense in a workflow. I think I had a version of it back in 2003 on my old computer.
I don't know what the software price is these days, what should I expect?
Is there anything else that can demux I might already have? Perhaps not as well eh?

Yes, I meant SFPro10...not DVDW2...it was late.

Thanks for the MPEG clarifications.

I re-rendered from AP6.5 successfully for vbr (6500kbps min; 7500 avg; 8000 max )...ended up a little smaller (3.0Gb vs 3.1) and 98 mins vs. 100mins. This time DVDW2 let it fly with the .wav audio for title and menu.

No sweat using ImgBurn first time. :) I even remembered to set the burn to 8x for my 16x Verbatim DVD-R...approx 12 mins including verify.

***

One problem...and I think it goes back to the NLE.
(this might need a new thread started on subject)

I use Photoshop .psd stills for some graphics with text.
I also use AP6.5 generated titles on the timeline as well.
The still text looks crappy in the end result. The AP6.5 titles do not.
They both look bad in DVDW2, which I just wrote off as a really lousy preview resolution. The menu background still (also using a .psd) looks fine in the preview though. So I figured since the menu is prepared by DVDW2 it's going to look cleaner than the main title video .m2v file displayed in the final preview.

The thing is...I checked Ap6.5 and it's preview is great.
I checked the .m2v through the windows media player, and it looks great.
So how come I get into DVDW2 and the preview doesn't look so good (all the video preview is somewhat low resolution) and the output for DVD is worse? Am I re-encoding inadvertently?

I didn't notice anywhere that I missed or had a wrong setting for the burn to DVD folder.

Again the titles from AP6.5 are fine as are the titles in the DVDW2 menu including it's .psd still background.
Should I have flattened the .psd files before rendering out of AP6.5?

Are the layers in the "active" .psd(s) creating problems? This doesn't seem likely as the .m2v output from the encoder plays well...oh...uh...on the computer screen. (hmmm...).

The DVD result for the .psd still-based text is slightly doubled (not blurred) like someone (me) with an un-corrected astigmatism would see it...just slightly offset from itself.
No redundant file, no inadvertent drop shadow with same color. Remember, its looks fine in the native .m2v.

Any thoughts?

TMPGEnc Plus encoder is an MPEG encoder. In 2009, it's not the best for encode quality HOWEVER it does have a lot of good video filters in it, to restore video. It has very strong basic NR filter, and some nice color correction options. VirtualDub does some of the same things (and some worse, and some better).

TMPGEnc also has the built-in MPEG TOOLS for simple editing and mux/demux. This last process is what I use it for most.

It's all of $37 at this link: http://edge.affiliateshop.com/public...7389&BID=12418
There's a trial, too. Most people end up buying it, even pros. I've seen it mentioned in everything from DV to VideoMaker to Broadcast Engineering magazines. Useful little tool, and it's been around almost a decade now.

Yes, DVDWS2 preview is crappy. Most every authorware preview, even well into high-priced pro stuff, looks crappy on preview. It's just a preview.

If your video takes longer than 15 minutes to author (assuming simple non-motion menus), then you're re-encoding. If you're making motion menus, it can take anywhere from 30-60 minutes on average.

All menus are re-encoded in DVDWS2. All menus are re-encoded in all authoring programs.

For DVDWS2, you need 720x540 stills, not 720x480. DVDWS2 also has an anti-alias blurring filter enabled by default, in the project settings. You can increase or decrease the filter, or outright turn it off. (I turn it off, for most of my work!)

Also use a BMP for background stills -- not PSD. While DVDWS2 does support PSD, sometimes they don't look as good as the pre-flattened BMP image. Don't use JPEG either. Encore is the only program that really handles PSD well. Even DVD Studio Pro isn't historically all that great with PSD.

I'm under the 15 min. authoring time, so I'm assuming there is not re-encoding going on based on what you said. But we decided on .psd to help the NLE process. So...bmp huh? Can I alias these for the .psd just prior to MPEG export from AP6.5?

DVDW2 wants 720x540? where does THAT come from?? The menu looks ok even though it uses a 2304x1296 .psd background. The computer screen gets the right 16:9 on DVD playback, but the TV doesn't show the full width even though other wide format DVD media does...including the AVCHD playback from the camera.

I didn't find the anti-alias setting - even though I was looking for it last night in the project settings! Is this another trial version fiasco?

You know...I just realized those .psd stills are 2304x1296. But wouldn't this be reconciled by the AP6.5 timeline MPEG export?

I've used .jpg stills before without this hassle...but maybe my taste has matured or I forgot how they really looked. ;-)

Thanks again for your ongoing help.
I need to correct all this before burning 10 DVDs.

Are you suggesting I image size the .psd stills to 720x540 and SaveAs flattened .bmp right in photoshop before I use them in the AP6.5 timeline - even though I'm using the AP6.5 720x480 16:9 NTSC preset?

You can use the PSD in Premiere, but Premiere isn't going to output a PSD -- it puts out video files. DVDWS2 needs video files or BMP images for best quality. Only use PSD for icon buttons -- not backgrounds, in DVDWS.

The PSD in the Premiere timeline has no effect on DVDWS.

I thought you were trying to use some PSD images in the DVDWS menus. That doesn't seem to be the case, based off the last post.

Yes...I know Adobe Premiere doesn't output a .psd...so let me clarify.

I have a single menu in DVDW2 and the background is a .psd.
I understand what you are saying about a flattened .bmp being better for the still backgrounds for DVDW2 menus.
But as it turned out, the menu is fine in the output DVD...really.

I used .psd(s) in the Adobe Premiere and they were composited in the timeline export to .m2v by AP.
As I said, the .m2v file looks fine until DVDW2 uses it to author the DVD files.

So I'm not sure I'm getting anywhere here trying to understand what went wrong in with the .m2v through DVDW2 and the appearance of the text graphics. Ok going in by .mv2; crappy going out from DVDW2.

I'd be curious what another authoring program might do. Any suggestion as a test?

DVDWS2 encodes menus using the default MainConcept setting. I believe this is about 6.0Mbps bitrate, 1-pass VBR, which may not always be adequate for all sources.

At this point, I'd want to see the video clip used in the menu
.... upload some samples using one of these service: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...large-1834.htm

Or show a handful of still images of the video. Screen caps taken via VirtualDub (MPEG2-capable version). Are you familiar with that process? Or what method would you usually use to take screen caps of videos? Seeing stills won't be as good as seeing the video in motion, but it may be adequate enough.

Ok...I'll get to work on that. I'll figure out something. I'm not sure I have the MPEG2 version of VirtualDub. I'll look into it.

Looking at the incoming .m2v vs. the authored video out from DVDWS2, there seems to be a distinct attempt to "anti-alias" and it's wreaking havoc with the "still" titles during the main video playback (not the menu).

Did you say there is a blurring or anti-alias feature in DVDWS2 set by default? (see your 12/27/09 5:02 pm post) I have looked in the project settings and the preferences and can find nothing even close. Is this something that doesn't present the option to turn off in the trial version?

VirtualDub is here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...-pre-1727.html
Load the MPEG file, scroll to the frame you want, and then go to

• Video
  • Copy Source Frame to Clipboard

And that will copy the video frame to the system clipboard, which you can paste into Photoshop or Paint, and save as JPEG to attach to the forum.

When I answered last night, it was late (for me, at least), didn't go into much detail there, did I?

I'll have to install DVDWS2 in a VM real quick, and look at the settings. I don't have DVDWS on this system right now. Will post back later today.

It seems I owe you an apology.

I have attached the .jpg(s) of the incoming .m2v, the outgoing .vob (from DVDWS2), as well as a screen capture of the dvd playback in InterVideo WinDVD 5.

The text problem was with the song title "Wachet Auf..." (and others later) on the semi-transparent graphic bar band. The titles on the right were not in question. As you can see, the .m2v and .vob are indistinguishable.

They all reveal an expected, and reasonable outcome. That exonerates DVDWS2. AP6.5 is likewise not a problem...I expect a little anti-aliasing or resolution adjustment from the NLE. Even the DVD playback is acceptable.

My problem?

My outdated Panasonic DVD player (model RV-32).
Yeah, and worse, I used a playback of the DVD in Windows Media Player (which was horrid) to help judge the outcome. Sorry...really sorry.

After your request to see the .jpg captures, I thought I should see if I got similar results from other computer players. I did not.
And I tested with running those computer/players to the same TV with acceptable results. Sigh...should have used the scientific method. Can you forgive me?

Here are the attachments...

WinDVD filters video with deinterlacers, so what you see there is not necessarily "true" to the MPEG either.

The best player for previewing MPEG DVD-Video is VLC. It will show the interlaced signal, and then you can opt in to a deinterlacer for actual watching on a computer.

Windows Media Player is good for high-def WMV and ASF files, and that's about it -- just the Microsoft proprietary formats. WMP was good in the 90s, but that ended .. well... a decade ago.

Glad you got it figured out! ;)

VLC ?
Sometimes you just have to spell it out for me... :o