Quantcast PAL D-VHS deck with HDMI? - Page 3 - digitalFAQ Forum
  #41  
01-04-2019, 01:05 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
in looking at the MPEG music video posted earlier, I noted that the playback machine clips y=16, including black borders which are usually darker than that but are cutoff at y=16 in the music video. Those black side borders are SMPTE limits for 4:3 aspect ratio video in that frame size and should be zero black (i.e, super-black), not y=16. I'm suspecting that the player is doing it, unless the original tape has been thru some other processing. Except for a few special shots inserted during the performance, the tape itself has a limited dynamic range visually and relatively low contrast. Shadow detail looks rather murky, even for VHS.
I can supply you with few seconds of lossless cap of that clip using the S-Video output with my USB capture device instead of the firewire port and compare them if you like, The intention from that post is to just show one step capture of a D-VHS machine, it wasn't meant to be the best capture method ever.
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  #42  
01-05-2019, 12:37 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
I can supply you with few seconds of lossless cap of that clip using the S-Video output with my USB capture device instead of the firewire port and compare them if you like, The intention from that post is to just show one step capture of a D-VHS machine, it wasn't meant to be the best capture method ever.
A most interesting and generous offer! It's rarely the case (if ever) that a lossy -vs- lossless version of the same source is presented, even if one version is incomplete. I think everyone would be interested in a comparison.

I worked on a cleanup of the "Wait" mpg using three different filters. It illustrates how something can be repaired (i.e, improved) but that data loss from lossy originals limits the results and makes the work tougher. It's been an interesting exercise, even if takes only 10 to 12 minutes each to filter 4 different versions. I've been sitting around trying to figure out which looks better and typing up some notes on how data loss interferes with the work and makes it more difficult.

By the way, mastering on the original isn't all that great. There are digital missteps even before that performance became a tape (field=-blended segments, duped frames, telecine on top of interlace, segments with field priority changes, bad chroma ghosting between scenes.....being lossy isn't even the beginning.

Below, the not-so-solid black background of the title shot, slightly brightened from the range RGB 16 to 62, showing low-level macroblock noise and bitrate completely wasted on it:


Chroma damage and field blending:


Other hortizontal dropouts, and sawtooth edges on gradients:


Film grain distortion and blocky artifacts:


Chroma ghosting from previous scenes and frames (red ghost in center of image):


A lot of that stuff such as chroma ghosting can't be fixed without creating even more damage, and original grain and tape noise imbedded as artifacts is a nightmare. But I managed to clean up some of it and made a short demo video. The attached mp4 compares 5 different quickie, short scenes, with the original frames on the left and the filtered frames on the right of each video frame. The scenes are inverse telecined back to the original 23.976fps film speed, but the demo video is slowed to 10 fps. The first scene is the title shot. Each scene in the comparison demo plays twice. Nothing perfect or exotic, just some quick fixes. http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...3&d=1546670103

Now all I have to do is decide which filtered complete version I like best, or if I should make a complete video by selecting segments from each. If I can make up my mind I'll encode it and post offsite, as it will be a pretty large file encoded for standard definition BluRay.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg TITLE SHOT - bitrate wasted on low-level noise.jpg (52.3 KB, 38 downloads)
File Type: jpg chroma damage and field blending.jpg (51.8 KB, 39 downloads)
File Type: jpg dropouts and sawtooth edge on gradients.jpg (47.6 KB, 40 downloads)
File Type: jpg film grain distortion and artifacts.jpg (45.8 KB, 38 downloads)
File Type: jpg chroma ghosting from previous scenes and frames.jpg (58.6 KB, 39 downloads)
Attached Files
File Type: mp4 Wait_compare_5_scenes_10fps.mp4 (49.85 MB, 3 downloads)
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  #43  
01-05-2019, 07:06 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Attached is the first minute if the 4-minute "Wait For Love" mpg, cleaned up to at least a more palatable state. Denoising revealed a lot of brute-force and sloppy digital mastering of the film source, although the mpg looks better than a typical YouTube disaster. Perfect cleanup isn't possible or desirable, since repairing 100% of the lossy damage would remove 80% of the video, and who would want that? The encoding artifacts were such that many popular Avisynth filters had ugly side effects or didn't work at all (for some popular chroma cleaners did more harm than good).

The main "workers" in Avisynth were TIVTC (inverse telecine), Biofrost, FluxSmoothST, TemporalSoften, SmoothUV, Dither Tools, a touch of RemoveDirtMC, and some homegrown routines to replace bad dropout pixels with clean pixels borrowed from other parts of the frames. The two VirtualDub workhorses were ColorCamcorderDenoise and NeatVideo, both at 1/3 power. A few visible remnants of some of that frequency-connected vertically rolling debris mentioned earlier are still present but, again, lossy encoding made it more difficult to remove entirely and would have resulted in a denuded video. Much of the mpg's image content consisted of compression artifacts to begin with.

The attached mp4 is suitable for web mounting at 23.9786 fps. The 720x480 frames were populated only in a 704-x480 area, so extra side pixels were removed, the bottom-border head-switching noise was removed and replaced with new borders that centered the image vertically, then 16-bit dithering and Spline36Resize was used to reformat the video to square-pixel 640x480. A standard-definition BluRay version would playback the same way, but 3:2 pulldown would be added for 29.97 playback, Dolby AC3 audio would replace the obsolete and inferior MP2, and the 720x480 format would be retained for BluRay encoding with a 4:3 display aspect ratio.

So the mp4 looks cleaner but it would look much better and would have been a lot easier if it had not been a lossy capture.


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 Wait_sample_4x3_23976p.mp4 (43.92 MB, 6 downloads)
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  #44  
01-05-2019, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
but, again, lossy encoding made it more difficult to remove entirely and would have resulted in a denuded video. Much of the mpg's image content consisted of compression artifacts to begin with.
There have been times where I transferred something to DVD or MPEG, then later decided to restore it. I'd often have to just re-capture it lossless, trying to restore the MPEG was futility.

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  #45  
01-19-2019, 11:22 AM
SFtheGreat SFtheGreat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
Possible, The manufacturer can decide what to do with a digital port, For instance some US models can input MPEG-2 and DV streams and output them as long as they are not copy protected, But none of them can output digital D-Theater cassettes and analog VHS cassettes with macrovision via firewire.
I wonder if it is hardwired or can be hacked in firmware.

Nevertheless I now own the JVC HM-DR10000EU. Does anyone know if DVHSTool works with PAL video and how to prepare video to have suitable tx file to record onto tape? Or should I record enything on the VCR, transfer it to PC and make Vegas preset to match the parameters?

EDIT: What am I saying... I cannot record it back, because firewire is input only...
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  #46  
01-19-2019, 07:58 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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There is no such hack for them, They disappeared quickly and hackers focused on defeating DVD copy protection, They know it's just a waste of resources going after D-VHS.
DVHSTool should work with frame rates for both systems 50Hz and 60Hz.
Recording to a D-VHS deck from any file has a learning curve, You have be able to make a compliant file otherwise the DVHSTool won't record anything or record broken stream.
I went thru that hell recently and actually I was lucky to get help from the guy who worked for JVC on the firewire board for these machines and he made a very efficient commend to use with ffmpeg (he goes by drmpeg @ videohelp). It was a wonderful learning experience, Take a look.
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  #47  
01-20-2019, 03:35 AM
SFtheGreat SFtheGreat is offline
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Well, I asked, let's see if it gets answered.
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