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  #21  
09-02-2019, 03:31 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFtheGreat View Post
Anyway, I was tinking about that 4:3 for VHS recording and I was wondering should I use standard 720x576, or 768x576 because it is 4:3 SAR and 1:1 PAR, I am skeptical whether Intensity would properly adjust DAR for 5:4 SAR to 4:3 DAR. Not to mention I've read tons of stuff on this forum not to use Intensity ever to digitize tapes back to digital, even with proper TBC, guess I'm stuch with DV converter.
I've been in the same boat, I've tried numerous HDMI to S-Video adapters even the pro ones and was having problems with frame tearing especially the Chinese adapters, I decided to go HDMI to SDI and then SDI to S-video and I just feed the audio directly from my media player to the VCR, The Aja SDI box provides crystal clear picture to the VCR, the best analog SD picture I've seen so far, I've done some S-VHS recordings with stunning quality.

I modified the HDMI/SDI and SDI/S-Video boxes to use one single power adapter by drilling a hole on the side of the Aja housing and fed a power cable thru and glued them together, both have the same voltage and amps, here is some pictures:







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  #22  
09-02-2019, 03:37 AM
SFtheGreat SFtheGreat is offline
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Pretty neat setup.

The Intensity Shuttle that was dirt cheap sold yesterday and I wanted to buy it today with VAT invoice, so that's not going to happen, it would have allowed me to feed video via USB to the device and output via S-Video and Audio.

I guess I will have to get Hyper Deck Mini and SDI to Analog converter also with Audio output and separate Y and C BNC connectors.

What about master file resolution? 768, 720, or should I use HD and let the SDI to analog do the downscaling?

Also, do you know if I used widescreen SAR, would it be fed as letterboxed out of S-Video? Or should I specifically make 4:3 SAR with already letterboxed video?

PAL user, unless otherwise specified I talk about PAL equipment.
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  #23  
09-02-2019, 04:15 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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It's really hard to predict anything since you don't have the player and the converter yet, On my media player I use 4/3 contents and set my media player to Pan and Scan (this also cuts off the sides of a 16/9 picture), I set the output resolution to either PAL (576i) or NTSC (480i) the only two resolutions that the Aja accepts and was the only reason I went with this Aja model, like I said I had problems with HD devices down converting to SD, I set my media player to output an interlaced SD signal, the HDMI/SDI box just passes whatever it receives and the Aja processes the SD signal and converts it to analog for the VCR.

If I want to make an anamorphic VHS/S-VHS tape for recording 16/9 HD contents I set the player to 4/3, the 16/9 frame is squeezed horizontally and recorded that way by the VCR, when played back I set the widescreen TV to stretch the picture horizontally, the result is a true widescreen picture (offcourse with loss of resolution) but it looked pretty darn good even on my 65" OLED TV, S-VHS anamorphic looked way better than DVD since DVD has compression artifacts.

I was interested in BlackMagic Intensity Shuttle before for this purpose, I opened up a thread over at videohelp and they advised against it:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...eedback-Needed
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  #24  
09-02-2019, 04:49 AM
SFtheGreat SFtheGreat is offline
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So the cheap way of Intensity is rather poor choice.
I'll see on BM forum how will Hyperdeck Mini and Teranex converter work.
Or i might try first going with displayport to S-video+audio converter, but this will leave me with a busy PC...

However here:
http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/vi...hp?f=3&t=27353
They say it should work.

PAL user, unless otherwise specified I talk about PAL equipment.
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  #25  
09-02-2019, 09:09 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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S-VIDEO carries analog signals and was developed during the eral of SD TV, which was (for NTSC) 525 interlaced scan lines (485 of which carried image data) at a frame rate of 29.97 frames/sec. This translated to about 63 micro-seconds of image data and retrace/blanking for each scan line. The aspect ratio at which this is displayed depends on how the display (e.g., TV) interprets the signal; e.g., the width of screen used to display each scan line. The common image aspect ratio during the SD era was 4:3, but 16:9 emerged late in that era. TV sets had a horizontal width adjustment that could be used to tweak the display aspect ratio (and horizontal overscan amount).

Toward the end of the analog/VHS era 16:9 WIDE screen displays were introduced. S-VIDEO signal standards allowed encoding a WIDE/NORMAL aspect ratio flag in the chroma signal (as a DC offset). Some TV sets could use this information to properly display the image. FWIW: The AG1980 included the ability to record and output the WIDE code.

Enter the digital age: NTSC adopted a 720x480 pixel image format. 720 horizontal samples because it could represent the analog scan line image data with sufficient sampling accuracy. If the image was a 4:3 aspect ratio this meant the pixels had a 0.9 aspect ratio. If the image was 16:9 the pixel aspect ratio was more like 1.2. (PAL figures are different).

It is worth noting that with the introduction of the VGA display PCs adopted a square pixel standard (the earlier MDA/HGA/CGA/EGA displays were not square pixels) as an added complication.

The more recent Blu-ray and DVD players often can "play" a variety of digital formats. Some (older) models also had S-VIDEO and component video outputs, but they are rare in current production models.

IMO your best bet for being able to play a wide range of video formats to both HDMI and analog outputs would be a PC with the right software and an appropriate graphics card.

When coupled with appropriate software the Black Magic Designs Intensity series cards can be used to output both HDMI and analog video and audio in both SD and HD formats. They can be used as capture cards as well for SD and HD signals in analog (composite, component, and s-video) and HDMI formats. They support both PAL and NTSC. However, the merits of the various Intensity cards for capture of VHS analog signals is discussed in other threads.

A TBC is an important component in an the video chain from analog sources such as VHS/Video8/Hi-8/S-VHS/Beta players and perhaps game boxes. But is is generally not needed in the analog output from a decent digital source playback system.
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  #26  
09-02-2019, 09:43 AM
SFtheGreat SFtheGreat is offline
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Thank you for informations. Have I not mentioned that I do not care about the very existance of NTS(hit)C?

I currently operate a laptop with a Displayport, so maybe AJA's DP to SDI and SDI to S-video+audio would suffice.

PAL user, unless otherwise specified I talk about PAL equipment.
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  #27  
09-02-2019, 04:18 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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You have to make sure the BM Intensity shuttle does convert a HD signal to SD, According to the thread I posted it doesn't it just monitor HD via HDMI and analog via an analog port.
If you got deep pockets you can try this.
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  #28  
09-02-2019, 04:25 PM
SFtheGreat SFtheGreat is offline
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I already have Ninja2. I read the trick to output analog from Intesity is to turn on downscaling it then comes out as SD from both HDMI and analog.

PAL user, unless otherwise specified I talk about PAL equipment.
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  #29  
09-02-2019, 06:29 PM
cerestan cerestan is offline
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I only had a quick play but it looks like the Intensity Shuttle only outputs digital to component. I also tried the Ultrastudio Pro (mentioned over on VideoHelp) and that has an extra flag to "Convert Analog Signals", I was able to get S-Video output from HDMI with that.
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  #30  
09-02-2019, 08:13 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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The question is will it have frame artifacts on the analog receiving device such as tearing, flicker ...etc ? I experienced those with HD devices doing a poorly downscaling/interlacing job.
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  #31  
09-03-2019, 06:42 AM
cerestan cerestan is offline
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I'll take a look at the output sometime this week. I also have a CYP cm-388 that downscales from HDMI to s-video, I'll see if I can find that and compare results.
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  #32  
09-03-2019, 06:26 PM
cerestan cerestan is offline
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I did a capture of the output and I'm not seeing signs of flicker or tearing.

UltraStudio Pro downscaling


It was a right royal pain to get working though, it's a bit late to go into the details but suffice to say I wouldn't recommend it. I'll dig out that CYP box and give that a go.
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  #33  
09-03-2019, 11:50 PM
SFtheGreat SFtheGreat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerestan View Post
I did a capture of the output and I'm not seeing signs of flicker or tearing.

UltraStudio Pro downscaling


It was a right royal pain to get working though, it's a bit late to go into the details but suffice to say I wouldn't recommend it. I'll dig out that CYP box and give that a go.
Well it doesn't look bad, how does it compare to the CYP? Though the latter doesn't work with 24p for obvious reasons I guess.
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  #34  
09-04-2019, 12:27 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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The frame is stable, I couldn't understand however the black strips on top and bottom of the frame, That would still show up on the tape even with the overscan.
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  #35  
09-04-2019, 02:32 AM
SFtheGreat SFtheGreat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
The frame is stable, I couldn't understand however the black strips on top and bottom of the frame, That would still show up on the tape even with the overscan.
I guess frame was not 4:3 and was letterboxed slightly. The left right bars are probably because analog output was captured to widescreen. Nevertheless looks decent, might be worth further testing.

I still don't know if I should use standard resolution 720x576 or use square pixels 768x576, to make matters more complicated Vegas outputs DV video as 786x576...
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  #36  
09-04-2019, 06:12 AM
cerestan cerestan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
The frame is stable, I couldn't understand however the black strips on top and bottom of the frame, That would still show up on the tape even with the overscan.
I had intended to use a blu-ray player but that would only output 1080p and that's not supported by the Ultrastudio. Instead I used a Macbook but that left the black space above and below the picture. I used an X-Capture-1 to do the capture but as seen that shifts the image to the left on s-video.

Playing around with the Ultrastudio I couldn't get it to cross convert from 1080i60 to PAL, it would only downscale to NTSC, I had to switch to 1080i50 on the Mackbook to get PAL output.

The Ultrastudio was also very finicky with its settings and I had to keep the bundled capture application Media Express running and switch windows in it for some settings to take effect.

On the plus side it was able to continue working with the USB cable disconnected, but didn't appear to retain the settings once the power was off.

I've not found the CYP box yet, it's in cupboard or in a box under a pile of boxes somewhere. Hopefully I should be able to dig it out this evening.
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  #37  
09-04-2019, 12:53 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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It seems like a pain in the arse to use Blackmagic no wonder why I was told to stay away from it.
SFtheGreat, Why does it matter? If you will be using a HD or UHD to analog downscaler then it will do the conversion on its own from any resolution. If you are making the videos yourself then just keep the same resolution you were working with before and let the converter do the work.
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  #38  
09-04-2019, 06:21 PM
cerestan cerestan is offline
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I made three captures from the CYP box, these were a lot more straight forward than using the Ultrastudio Pro.

Inception Blu-ray
Video Essentials
Macbook

The X-Capture-1 pre-amp is set to defaults, the captures are rather dark. The Macbook wanted to output at 1600x1200, which worked fine, but switching to 1080p gave the video more height but squashed the widescreen image to 4:3. The colours are out of wack though, not sure what's going on with that. Any colour setting I tried just reverted back to the washed out picture, especially evident on the Macbook's desktop.
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  #39  
09-05-2019, 02:22 AM
cerestan cerestan is offline
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Ignore what I said about the Macbook video colour, I'd left f.lux enabled.

Macbook corrected
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  #40  
09-05-2019, 03:39 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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The mabook has even bigger black bars on top and bottom of the frame, The first capture is letter boxed so it's hard to tell, The second capture looked close to full screen, still has tiny black bands. try native 4/3 SD materials like cartoons I bet you would get a perfect full screen.
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