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  #61  
10-03-2019, 03:07 AM
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jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danfun64 View Post
What in the world is the quasi-clone and how does it compare to the clone, let alone the real thing?
Tevion (High Speed DVD Maker) quasi-clone
.. [Beware.. there are at least 3 different physical hardware models and software bundles]

Tevion quasi-clone and Hauppauge (USB-Live 2) clone
.. [Beware.. there are at least 5 different hardware Revisions released in different shaped boxes, but exact same physical plastic hardware shell]

.. confusion reigns supreme when looking at picking up one of these, unless you've tested the device and know how to tell them apart.

The VC500 is closer to a pure EMPIA product rather than using the EMPIA for the USB bridge chip connection to the crossbar and decoder chip.. but EMPIA revised and updated their designs over the years and kept releasing them as the VC500 with different incompatible drivers.. so you have to use the driver disk that came with that specific VC500 and not the generic version from the website.. because its updated without versioning specific to the hardware version you have.. lots of confusion.. but use the driver disk that came with the VC500 out of the package.. never swap driver versions.

I "believe".. though I could be wrong.. LS is refering to what newbies like me think of as the default "proc-amp" settings for the decoder and analog to digital converter in each device. Proc-amps have Brightness, Contrast, Hue and Saturation.. those are the four fundamental "settings" an NTSC or PAL signal has control over when transmitting a color video signal. They are "relative" and can be manually pushed around.. but you have to "do that" .. i.e. fiddle with those variables if the color looks wrong.. too green, too red.. too bright.. too dark. Out of the box, the best capture devices are close to "spot on" by default and you don't have to do any of that setup up front. People are very poor objective judges of what is "right" and often make it worse. And most people don't have a digital signal analyzer or "scope" to help compensate for their errors in judgement. The advantage of a device already known to be calibrated.. is you don't have to calibrate.. just hit record and go.

So grading on a curve:

The AIW USB2.0 is "spot on" its calibrated and ready to point and shoot

The ATI 600 USB is slightly off, but not by very much, it varies by so little it will never be noticed by most people

The Tevion USB is nearly as good as the ATI 600 but its scarce and rare.. Tevion is an EU company and only dipped its toe in the US market and quickly vacated leaving very few available in the US

The Hauppauge USB Live2 hung around for a long long time, and only recently stopped importing them from China.. which skewed the quality profile and since they kept changing it over such a long time, ... individual samples are pot luck. Its also much further off than the previous Three choices as a general rule.

The VC500 is "variable" from the get go.. and on purpose.. its pot luck, plus, plus separate versions for PC and MAC.. if you get lucky it can be great.. but debates rage to this day whether its "ok" for newbies or fresh from the box needs tweaks to the settings every time before use. But it seems to still be available new.. it seems a loss leader as a market demo product for EMPIA so the market has lots of them every year. Mostly they make chips for dash cams for cars.. those are the same being used for analog video capture.

From top to bottom, the shorter a period something stayed on the market, the more likely its quality remained consistent across its product run, the rarer it is and the more expensive today.. if the competing buyers know its worth.

The longer something was on the market.. the more variable and worse the total consistency got over time.. compare any two and their consistency is nothing alike. Add to this if they started out with a poorly calibrated product to begin with and its a massive time sink setting up.. or getting everything right from one capture session to the next. They are easier to find, less rare and cheaper.. but a royal pain to use.. might as well give up.. unless your a patient and methodical capture expert doing it for a living.

Last edited by jwillis84; 10-03-2019 at 03:49 AM.
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  #62  
10-03-2019, 11:31 AM
Sleeper XPL Sleeper XPL is offline
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  #63  
10-03-2019, 01:50 PM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
The VC500 is closer to a pure EMPIA product rather than using the EMPIA for the USB bridge chip connection to the crossbar and decoder chip.. but EMPIA revised and updated their designs over the years and kept releasing them as the VC500 with different incompatible drivers..
The VC500 (unless you mean the mac version) uses a chip made by conexant, not Empia, unless they've changed something recently. The really old ones used a trident chip.
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  #64  
10-03-2019, 04:22 PM
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That's been my experience.

The current VC500 for Mac I have on hand appears completely EMPIA based and uses the Glide capture program, with the EMPIA logo. I'm guessing since EchoFX is discontinuing their capture product after Apple kills Quicktime this year.. EMPIA had to take it on or be without a known capture product that uses their current chips.

I have to hand it to them though.. they like to hide change behind the scenes and keep everything customer facing "appearing" the same. Its only when something doesn't work that troubleshooting gets insane.

Per previous years, if the pattern continues, the next version on the PC side will have same box, same plastic container.. and still say VC500.. but inside it will be updated to a pure EMPIA decoder.. that might be the escape hatch for exiting the apple market space.. adapt to the Win10 ecosystem.. even as a UVC device for capture. It would be hard to do that if they didn't evolve the bridge chip to encompass the decoder part too.. since they would then have to rely on driver bits from other chip makers. By finally owning it all.. maybe it will be more stable on W10 ?

(note: I did not say.. more color correct..)

Magewell gave up on their driver space and updated the firmware to become a virtual webcam device (UVC).. users and experts lost a little control.. but we're such a niche space.. I guess we don't matter. Web video is good enough for most people these days.
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  #65  
10-03-2019, 06:06 PM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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Yeah the two VC500 mac we got here are also EMPIA (as I've written earlier), one full empia, the other one (presumably older) has a empia bridge and a Trident(NXP/Philips) SAA7113H chip. The Conexant chip doesn't seem to have driver support on macOS, so i guess that's why the empia ones are being used instead (as they seem well-supported on macos). It's one of the chips that do support win10 though, seems most new simple USB dongles (with only composite and S-Video) of slightly higher quality are based around either the Conexant 2310x or some empia chipset (either the all-in-one chipset, or with a TVP5150,). The really cheapo ones (ezcrap clones) use usbtv or something else.
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  #66  
10-06-2019, 06:06 PM
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I have two EVO-9720 dual Hi8 decks. Both were used in my business in the late 90's and early 2000's and were rock solid machines. One I bought almost new in around 2000 for use "sometime in the future". I also purchased the last "on the shelf" GV D200 decks in around 2008. Good thing I did, because the 9720's all have bad electrolytic capacitors, which Sony decks and cameras were notorious for from that era. So the video has smeary trails to the right and other instabilities.

I'll be using the GV D200 for analogue captures of video, but the D200 doesn't support PCM audio. So I use the 9720 decks to capture the PCM sound that I recorded back in the day. PCM is finicky and sounds pretty bad if not aligned correctly. It was necessary to adjust the tape guides on the decks to support the two cameras that I used for clean sound output. I'll sync the tracks in Vegas Video. Since the tapes have historically significant content, it's what I have to do.
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  #67  
10-08-2019, 06:04 PM
Vakicious Vakicious is offline
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Sent you a PM. Really want to get one

I saw you have 1 AIW and 600 left as of Oct 2019 update. I'd love to buy one from you (AIW preferred). My capture card just bit the dust, and I've got a huge pile of VHS to digitize.
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  #68  
12-09-2019, 09:04 PM
afi_yahya afi_yahya is offline
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Hi lord smurf! Sent a PM a while back (enquiring about the USB 600 stick), just checking if you received it?
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  #69  
12-31-2019, 06:50 PM
jsnyder jsnyder is offline
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Hey all, I have a JVC HR-S7900U + AVT-8120 by AV Toolbox for sale. I purchased this equipment from Lord Smurf earlier this year to digitize my parents VHS collection plus earn side income. Decided this gig wasn't for me and i'd focus on growing my video production business as this kept me home too much lol... All in all i only digitized like 20 tapes so this unit is still in pretty much the same condition it was when LS refurbished and sold it to me. Anyone interested? Can also bundle a black magic Intensity Shuttle (USB) that i purchased for this process.
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  #70  
01-02-2020, 05:13 PM
javidial javidial is offline
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Hi everyone.
My name is Javier, I live in California, but I'm planning in going back to Europe to visit my parents and help them digitize some of their old vhs tapes (weddings and other stuff). Back home I have a Panasonic NV-HS950 that has TBC and DNR, another vhs Samsung SV-251X, I also have a "Hauppauge 610 USB-Live 2" and a "Elgato Video Capture USB".

After reading this forum, I assume I would need minimum an external TBC, right? and perhaps a better usb capture like the ATI 600. They have a laptop with windows 10 in it.

Do you guys think just getting an external TBC should do the work for me? Do anybody here has one for sell? lol PM me
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  #71  
01-11-2020, 02:21 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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General listing update: Very few units are now remaining.

Remember: anybody interested in my hardware should PM me, I may not see thread replies as quickly.

And on to some questions/discussions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danfun64 View Post
What in the world is the quasi-clone and how does it compare to the clone, let alone the real thing?
The ATI 600 USB contains multiple chipsets, and the quasi-clones chipsets differ. The quasi-clone either contains the same main video chipset, or a slight variation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
Tevion (High Speed DVD Maker)
.. [Beware.. there are at least 3 different physical hardware models and software bundles]
It's actually more like 7 variations. Tevion is like Elgato, where nothing has model numbers. Everything is a "Tevion DVD Maker", which is ironic seeming as how the card cannot capture MPEG (ie, fhe format required for DVD), nor include any DVD authoring software. So you have at least a half-dozen variations of the card. Some look alike, some do not. Some look similar, some look vastly different.

Quote:
Tevion quasi-clone and Hauppauge (USB-Live 2) clone
.. [Beware.. there are at least 5 different hardware Revisions released in different shaped boxes, but exact same physical plastic hardware shell]
And the ATI 600 USB clone version is rare, had low production. I think it was sold exclusive to one store, but have never been able to learn which that was, never been able to verify it. Maybe CompUSA, maybe another. As with other aspects of video, the info is lost, and not even Hauppauge knows.

Quote:
The VC500 ... kept releasing them as the VC500 with different incompatible drivers.. so you have to use the driver disk that came with that specific VC500 and not the generic version from the website.. because its updated without versioning specific to the hardware version you have.. lots of confusion.. but use the driver disk that came with the VC500 out of the package.. never swap driver versions.
Given how we've seen so many varied problems with the VC500, which are not reproducable to others with the "same" card, I'm fairly certain this is the case. Production components were likely just whatever happened to be on the shelf, rather than specific parts. It's why folks like sanlyn have a stellar experience with the VC500, and others want to smash it with a hammer. We see this with other capture cards in years past, so it doesn't at all surprise me.

Quote:
I "believe".. though I could be wrong.. LS is refering to what newbies like me think of as the default "proc-amp" settings for the decoder and analog to digital converter in each device. Proc-amps have Brightness, Contrast, Hue and Saturation.. those are the four fundamental "settings" an NTSC or PAL signal has control over when transmitting a color video signal. They are "relative" and can be manually pushed around.. but you have to "do that" .. i.e. fiddle with those variables if the color looks wrong.. too green, too red.. too bright.. too dark. Out of the box, the best capture devices are close to "spot on" by default and you don't have to do any of that setup up front. People are very poor objective judges of what is "right" and often make it worse. And most people don't have a digital signal analyzer or "scope" to help compensate for their errors in judgement. The advantage of a device already known to be calibrated.. is you don't have to calibrate.. just hit record and go.
This is fairly accurate, especially in content. The ATI 600 USB clones that use the generic eMPIA drivers, rather than the proprietary ATI/Hauppauge drivers, tend to be a bit hot/bright. This is adjusted with the device proc amp (about -5 to -8 is all that's needed), accessed from the filter/crossbar Video menus in VirtualDub. The generic eMPIA drivers control lots of eMPIA chips, so none are as precise as the actual ATI 600 USB with few drivers and a sole chipset. This isn't a problem, or an issue, just something you need to set. It's inverse to the audio, where ATI forgot to include an audio level control (oops!), and a registry hack is required to normalize it at 50% (128). The eMPIA drivers included an audio volume control, accessible in Windows, and sometimes in the filter/crossbar settings.

Quote:
The longer something was on the market.. the more variable and worse the total consistency got over time..
The Panasonic AG-1980P is a great example of this. That deck is all over the map, with the only real consistency being that the caps blow (and re-blow) in all of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javidial View Post
Hi everyone.
My name is Javier, I live in California, but I'm planning in going back to Europe to visit my parents and help them digitize some of their old vhs tapes (weddings and other stuff). Back home I have a Panasonic NV-HS950 that has TBC and DNR, another vhs Samsung SV-251X, I also have a "Hauppauge 610 USB-Live 2" and a "Elgato Video Capture USB".
After reading this forum, I assume I would need minimum an external TBC, right? and perhaps a better usb capture like the ATI 600. They have a laptop with windows 10 in it.
Do you guys think just getting an external TBC should do the work for me? Do anybody here has one for sell? lol PM me
PM'd. Win10 was never great for video capture, and updates have further crippled it. So while the ATI 600 USB is great, it's an effected card. Some folks can find a workaround (alter permissions settings, etc), while others had their cards permanently uninstalled by a Win10 update. The 600 clones install better for Win8/10, because the generic drives are officially supported (at least for the moment, that could always change).

WinXP and Win7 are the best OS for capturing. Least issues, most support.

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  #72  
01-23-2020, 08:00 PM
brendo690 brendo690 is offline
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Sent you a PM
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  #73  
05-17-2020, 10:27 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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I still have a small stash of capture cards.

The COVID-19 stay-at-home has given rise to capturing videos, seemingly due to finally having extra time, so getting a quality card right now is somewhat hard. Not that is was overly easy before, but definitely harder now.

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  #74  
06-07-2020, 12:28 PM
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Hello lordsmurf. Do you still some of the ATI AIW USB cards available? I'm really interested in purchasing one from you. Thank you.
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  #75  
06-09-2020, 12:03 PM
prenerts prenerts is offline
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Ok, I need the Pinnacle USB, NTSC. How do I buy from this site? As mentioned I am newbie..
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  #76  
06-09-2020, 12:19 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oside View Post
Hello lordsmurf. Do you still some of the ATI AIW USB cards available? I'm really interested in purchasing one from you. Thank you.
Yes. PM me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prenerts View Post
Ok, I need the Pinnacle USB, NTSC. How do I buy from this site? As mentioned I am newbie..
PM me.

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