Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Blank Media

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
01-31-2022, 10:49 AM
joonas joonas is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 38
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What could be considered as first gen tape? Could handycam capped tape be considered as master recording or does it have some more technical criteria?
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
01-31-2022, 12:01 PM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
Invalid Email / Banned / Spammer
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: London - UK
Posts: 568
Thanked 88 Times in 76 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by joonas View Post
What could be considered as first gen tape? Could handycam capped tape be considered as master recording or does it have some more technical criteria?
It's "only a name", you can call your tape 'Billy' or 'Dick' if that helps

Generally whatever is the first source is considered the master, in broadcasting terms differ where the 'edit master' is usually the cardinal tape once everything has been edited. We have to have certain arrangements in place to deal with them.

But, in answer to your question, 'first' generation is considered the first source, not the first dub. There's no 'zeroth' generation if that's what you're asking? - Terms may differ globally though.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
01-31-2022, 12:30 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,508
Thanked 2,449 Times in 2,081 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by joonas View Post
What could be considered as first gen tape?
source master = 1st gen
copy of 1st gen = 2nd gen, aka edit masters
copy of 2nd gen = 3rd gen, aka distribution copy, degradation starts here
copy of 3rd gen = nth gen

If the copy method was bad, no TBCs, generic VCRs, then the 2nd gen is the same as nth gen, very degraded right away in almost all cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobustReviews View Post
Generally whatever is the first source is considered the master, in broadcasting terms differ where the 'edit master' is usually the cardinal tape once everything has been edited. We have to have certain arrangements in place to deal with them.
But, in answer to your question, 'first' generation is considered the first source, not the first dub. There's no 'zeroth' generation if that's what you're asking? - Terms may differ globally though.
Nope, pretty universal in both pro and hobby circles.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #4  
01-31-2022, 02:17 PM
joonas joonas is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 38
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Is recording made with consumer handycam considered as first gen/master tape? Or does it have to be capped with studio equipment to call it that way.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
01-31-2022, 02:37 PM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
Invalid Email / Banned / Spammer
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: London - UK
Posts: 568
Thanked 88 Times in 76 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by joonas View Post
Is recording made with consumer handycam considered as first gen/master tape? Or does it have to be capped with studio equipment to call it that way.
No, it's not a crime to call amateur footage 'first gen'.

I'm unsure what you're asking, if it's the 'original' footage then it's the first generation by definition.

Do you have an example as to why you think that may not be the case?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
01-31-2022, 09:29 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,694
Thanked 369 Times in 325 Posts
In general, the camcorder original shoot tape is first generation and can be considered the master.
The VCR recording could be first generation if it was fed from an original source such as a live camera.

Some might consider an off-the-air (or cable) recording a first generation but that could lead to a philosophical discussion since many broadcasts are from tape. However, for our purposes might be OK considering that the source is generally much better than most home tape playback would be.

Quote:
..then the 2nd gen is the same as nth gen..
This is due to the fact that any defects in the input to the 2nd generation copy tend to be "baked in" for subsequent generations. However, keep in mind that each generation copy of analog material will introduces additional issues driven by the system signal to noise ratio, frequency response, distortion, mechanical variables, and related issues. Thus the (n+1)th generation copy will generally be worse than the nth. However digital recordings can be copied without losses (subject to media read errors) provided they stay in the digital signal domain.

FWIW: Broadcast professional formats do not suffer the same degree of generation loss as the consumer analog formats thanks to better frequency response (especially for chroma), lower noise, and more stable mechanics.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
01-31-2022, 10:50 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,508
Thanked 2,449 Times in 2,081 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
Some might consider an off-the-air (or cable) recording a first generation but that could lead to a philosophical discussion since many broadcasts are from tape. However, for our purposes might be OK considering that the source is generally much better than most home tape playback would be.
In the tape trading hobby world, this is accurate. The TV recording is the master/1st gen, aka often now "blank tape" (wink, wink) auctions on eBay. Treasure troves of old commercials (WOC shows), unreleased shows, etc.

Edit masters may or may not exist (copy broadcast, vs. commercials edit out), and may or may not be crappy when those exist (always TBCs and good decks, vs. not TBCs and cheap decks).

Distribution copies are always awful unless care was taken (TBCs, good decks) -- and care was rarely taken. FYI: This is why Go.Video dual decks are infamous crap, hated by quality-seeking traders in the 90s, and adored by money whores (the fat smelly guy at the small comic con with overpriced horrid quality boots).

The broadcast master isn't necessarily analog, and hasn't been for many years (80s and earlier). Satellite and cable especially not analog sources as 90s progressed, MPEG-2 encoded even before DVD-Video existed. It was mostly local stations that held onto analog well into the 2000s.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Favorite master reseller hosts? via Email or PM Web Hosting 0 10-14-2019 05:50 PM
Capture VHS in .AVI for master archive? rocko Capture, Record, Transfer 4 04-11-2013 12:21 AM
Master list or page for all links? Reading Bug General Discussion 7 09-25-2011 02:42 AM
Making Master discs MagnificentMarcus Blank Media 13 11-11-2005 09:06 AM
What does everyone use for Master Copies of dvd's MBates05 Author, Make Menus, Slideshows, Burn 9 06-28-2005 10:36 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:33 AM