Never Use a Sticky Label on a DVD !!!
For many videographers and serious video hobbyists, this is already old knowledge, but it still plagues many amateurs and newbies.
DO NOT USE A STICKY LABEL ON A DVD. Period. Never. Nada. No exceptions! If you want to blame somebody for this, blame
The greedy companies should already know the physics of discs, but selling labels to unsuspecting dupes is another easy profit maker for them. It's honestly a product that is sold because people are dumb enough to buy it. If this is you, I'm sorry, but you've been used. The same is true of "DVD safe" markers, just FYI -- something sold because buyers are gullible. Then How Do "Other People" Label Discs? Well, they're not using labels. They print on a disc, or they get discs mass replicated and screen/thermal printed. The discs you buy in stores, retail movie releases, are not using sticky labels -- those image are printed on when the discs are replicated. (Note: Retail DVDs are not burned, they are pressed and replicated in bulk.) If you feel the need to put images on a disc, then use printable inkjet media, along with an inkjet disc printer. Inkjet media costs about $10-15 more per 100-pack than branded or plain silver discs, but it's worth it. Suggested blank inkjet DVDs ($25-40 price range):
Keep Perspective! Remember that a disc receives only a few fleeting seconds of viewing time. Compare this to the DVD case, which can get several minutes of viewing/reading time, or the DVD menu, which can also get several minutes of viewing time. The ROI on a disc image is rather low, so budget and plan accordingly. There's no sense in blowing a media budget on disc art, and skimping in other areas. A disc with a "pretty picture" on top should come very, very low on the to-do list. |
Wanted to share a few added thoughts...
Until a few days ago, I thought the sticky label issue was solved years ago, with most people understanding that it's a bad idea. But apparently that's not the case. It appears there are some really misleading articles out there suggesting labels are okay. LABELS ARE NOT OKAY! This thread was mostly written in response to that misguided advice. Quote:
This is just a warning that you need to be very wary of what you read online. Not everybody has your best interests in mind, be it spam-writing idiots (blackhat SEO tricks), or greedy label-selling companies. Buyer (and reader) beware! :mad: |
THXXX :D Ótima dica...
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The second post was also pointing out how it is NOT okay to use sticky labels. It features a quote from a badly-written dumb article, and I was pointing out the bad advice. I was also making a statement on how many bad articles are out there these days, existing purely for spam purposes. DO NOT USE STICKY LABELS ON DVDs! :) Comprende? :) |
So what's the best brand of sticky label? *jk* :) I have a good question, how do I label a DL disc? I can't find DL in Labelflash or printable versions. So I'm left with a marker, and I can't find cd printers either (not at the local Walmart).
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$74.99 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B0024TNXNG That's what I use. :cool: There's also the Verbatim DVD+R DL as LightScribe (and LabelFlash ~ LightScribe) Verbatim 96689 8.5 GB 8x LightScribe Double-Layer Recordable Disc DVD+R DL, 10-Disc Spindle Currently $20.69 with Free Standard Shipping http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B001JIHF0U Either of those fit your needs? |
Wow, that's really expensive, but the lightscribe would be cheaper for small projects. I'm also wondering about packaging, if you were putting a home movie on DVD, do you ever use those tall soft cases like real DVD's come in? I've never seen the insert kit for them. I did get some thick jewel cases and a jewel insert kit from an American company called Staples.
I didn't think of shopping online because I needed it now, but I'll have to get supplies ahead of time for later. Thanks! |
Expensive? Well, expense is relative. I still have these receipts from 2001-2002 timeframe:
- $9 each, Pioneer 1x DVD-R in 10-pack slim case - $3 each, Ritek 1x DVD-R in 50-pack spindle - $5.50 each, Apple 2x DVD-R in 5-pack jewel case VHS tapes used to be $2-3 each for the good ones, $1 or so for the junk ones. DVD is better than VHS was, in terms of quality of video it can hold. So considering all of these things, a printable high-quality DVD+R DL for $1.50 isn't really that awful. Yes, your best bet for good media is online, especially for "specialty" media like inkjet discs. |
I thought there might be a more authoritative answer about labels, so I wanted to check the actual quality/manufacturing specs for DVD's themselves.
However, what I ran into is this reference, which is quite interesting. Quote:
This explains why some people never have a problem with sticky labels; either it's the label brand they are using or the drive mechanism they are using. There *are* sticky labels which work fine. Look for a plastic film based label. Avery sells one, Matte White Film DVD Lablels, #8962 and it's the only American brand that's actually guaranteed to work with DVD's on the box and mentions the actual problem that labels cause. Hub labels work fine too. Paper-based sticky labels which cause problems due to stiffness will have problems playing at the END of the video, which is the outer edge of the DVD, where it will be most bowed. If a paper-based, sticky label gives you problems, here's what to do: #1 Sponge it with water. This loosens the paper enough to let it play. #2 bend the disc up in the middle. This relieves some stress from the paper #3 Cut score marks in the label. This also reduces stress (just like the expansion grooves in concrete). #4 Avoid the problem by not burning the full length of the DVD. The entire theory of off balance being an issue in a properly applied label, I would say is suspect anyhow because DVD players only play at 1x speed, this is a pretty low RPM. If it played in a DVD player but not when read at 16x in a DVD ROM, that would be more telling. Envelope labels on one side of a disk *are* a problem, this will cause balance issues. CD's are not affected because they have larger tracks and are more resillient to warping. This also applies to Video CD's. Lesson learned; when you see a controversial topic, there is a pattern in there somewhere to be discovered. Both sides are right! The devil is in the details. To say "avoid sticky labels at all costs" is too much of a generalization. Of course, using a sharpie, label printer, or Lightscribe is another option. Be aware that people have legitimate uses for printed labels despite there being other ways of doing it! |
Quick Summary: for the bored eyes: use plastic film sticky labels like Matte White Film DVD Lablels, #8962, or hub labels. These are fine. Avoid paper labels. If you use paper labels, avoid filling the entire disc. Off balance is not the real issue, stiffness is. You can also use a CD printer, Lightscribe, or markers. Tip: use different colored markers to categorize your discs (good/bad movie, drama/action, data/video, widescreen/fullframe). Signs of the label being a problem are, movie breaks up on at the end. Fix paper labels by just wetting the label and reading again. Envelope labels on one side will cause a balance problem. Some drive mechanisms can read warped discs better than others.
Labels of any type are fine with CDs and Video Cds. |
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The major flaw in the c't article, however, as it relates to CD labels, is the lack of aging. There are significant temporal affects on media, as it relates to the changes in the label over time. The glues allow for shifting and bubbling of the labels after maybe 5 years. I have a number of examples of this in the media research spindles. Quote:
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Good chat. :) |
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actually tested. A surprising result is usually welcomed in fact, as this means there is more to learn. Quote:
beyond spec, of the discs with applied labels. This was the cause of the read errors, in fact. However, I think I understand your line of thought. I agree that the DVD material is stronger than paper, but any applied force affects it's bending. In this case you have an imbalance of forces; the label side is being pulled inswards, no matter how slightly, but enough to cause the added 1 degree of angular error. It's not a matter of the paper label breaking; it's a matter of added tension. Think of the paper more like a rubber band adding tension. Quote:
circulation for 5 years, and I was able to read it with no errors. Hardly a generalization, but at least it's possible for a sticky label to last for 5 years. I feel hopeful from this fact, but I can't scientifically say I reject or accept long-term use of sticky labels. Do you have any references to further support your opinions? How much does probability affect a recommendation? Certainly it seems possible that one could find ruined discs as well as good ones, but if it's quite unlikely one way, is that reason to totally avoid it? I don't think we really know the answer anyhow. As much as I'd like to make a nice looking product for a customer, I would unfortunately have to use only LightScribe DVD-DL's as the next best option for now, in the case of long-term, home memories preserving, DVD transfers. Of course I could give them both and if one dies they still have the other :) There is also the idea of putting the video 'on the cloud' for the younger generation who would most likely watch their childhood-selves on (private) YouTube. (Is there private YouTube? I've never uploaded to it.) My main interest is in providing the client with a professional looking product. At worst they could come back to me 5 years later and say 'my disc is skipping 2 hours of the way through'. I don't know how important that tid-bit of video is to them. I could use the suggested techniques to copy and re-burn their video. Actually it's unlikely they'd come back to me at all. Of course I don't want them to be disappointed at all. |
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I can't give specific details, but one of our recent projects involved about 100 labeled DVDs. About 10% of them were severely damaged. Of those, half were unrecoverable in whole or in part. And these were recently-labeled media. There were some mitigating issues (scratches, cheap CMC discs), but the problems were still heavily related to labels. You'd be surprised at what some studios do internally. Shocked, in fact. :eek: I think 5% loss is unacceptable for otherwise-fine DVDs. And that number will climb as months and years go by. I'd suggest it comes in close to the 50% mark, based on my own experiences and observations in the past 15 years of burning media. (And I'm definitely not a casual user.) Labeling just never ends well. :( |
Thanks for describing your experience. I think that in general, you have reduced your experience to a good 'rule of thumb'. Now I am more convinced that labels are a significant source of error.
I don't know which specific brands of label caused the problems, but I can see how you would say it was to be avoided. Therefore I have to agree with you. Scientifically, I shouldn't agree with you until I have more facts, which you have now provided. Avoid sticky labels ;) Thanks for informing me! You have great experience. My next question would be, name a specific current model of media inkjet printers, and where can I buy it. I can't find *any*. I have one theory for this, perhaps the powers-that-be are pressuring manufacturers to *not* make this equipment as a an anti-piracy measure. Of course it may simply be a product that's not in demand, but I don't understand why; certainly a full color label is more desirable than the LabelFlash alternative. |
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Generally speaking, the average consumer customer doesn't care about the disc label. They're far more interested in video and audio quality, and that's honestly the right approach anyway. Those who would want a "pretty" aspect to their work can opt for custom menus and/or custom DVD cases. But few ever opt for these added services. Most appear to be quite content with their own handwriting and empty DVD cases that they've dumpster-dived from behind Blockbuster (or bought in a cheap bulk pack at the local office store). Some video conversion companies try to lure in customers with promises of "free professional custom DVD cases" (translation: amateur template crap), but people are really not swayed by it. The typical response could be summed up with one word: "whatever". To be quite blunt about it, the few clients who would insist on disc artwork for their one-off single-copy DVDs are often not worth having as clients. Disc artwork is an expensive process, both in time and materials, when it's not being used for mass-produced professionally-screened discs. And the same clients who want custom art for their one-off discs are never willing to pay for the time and costs involved. One of the biggest challenges with artwork is acquiring the sources. And you can't simply extract a frame from the video, and expect it to look good for print. Most non-business customers are far too lazy (or "busy" as they often say) to scrounge up some nice family photos as artwork sources. Disc artwork, for non-commercial purposes, is mostly an exercise in futility that doubles as a money vampire. Quote:
Finding these printers isn't too hard. Primera makes most of them. For example, the Primera Bravo SE from Amazon for $890. Notice that most disc printers are "auto" systems designed for printing spindles worth of DVDs. Not to say that you can't print one disc, but rather than the idea of a disc printer is intended for "by the dozens" mass production of the same disc. It's far more cost effective to run with a disc service when you approach 500+ discs. Even then, you have to question the ROI, both financial and non-financial. (i.e., Does the audience/demographic really care?) |
p.s., it's interesting how we have certain expectations of certain organizations, like studios. In reality, they are not necessarily some kind of uber-gurus, but ordinary people with no specific hardcore knowledge. I remember finding an error in a pressing of Dire Straits "Money for Nothing", and someone just couldn't believe that a commercial CD could have an error, yet it was clearly not scratched in the slightest. I'm sure they used Pro Tools for Mac like anyone else in the industry, at the time. Some kind of user error. I found another error on a CD where is was distorted due to the volume being too high. I knew the artist as well, practically speaking it was of no significance as the producer had a lot of connections that might help the band, even if I could technically produce a superior CD.
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However, I had no idea how irrelevant this was. Anyhow, in one particular customer, I did a restoration which wasn't technically perfect, but they seemed to find it OK. I have since learned to do a 'perfect' restoration, which I would like to offer to them for free because I feel bad that I didn't give them the best in the first pass. I have yet to see how they will react to this. Certainly they can get the idea of the video from what was provided. They didn't complain about what they had. In context, this was a video with extremely bad dropout type defect, which showed as short, white lines in the video. I cleaned up 70% of these, but the result was somewhat blocky. I can now fix this 100%. |
Hi. Sorry to re-open this old thing, but I thought a good updat is long overdu on this. Since now that the lightscribe technology is officially dead (discs and burner no longer made), what are now the alternatives avalaible for customers and prosumers (mostly independants videographers who shoot events like weddings) aside of the sharpie marker ?
I have nothing against the marker, but the people who are hiring me would like a bit more professionalism on that part of the job, but since the pro printers for that are only for large scale and mass marketting, lightscribe was my on viable option. Thanks to answer |
I've found that inkjet printable blank CDs, DVDs and BD disks work well.
The TY (now JVC) WaterShield look expecially good. Epson offers several moderate cost printers that do a nice job on inkjet-printable media, and it they come with printing software. Printing takes around 3 minutes per disc. Graphics can be prepared in a program of your choice e.g., PhotoShop (if you have deep pockets), GIMP, etc. And of course there are automated (robotic) printers and combination burner/printer production, such as the Primera Bravo series, for higher volume work . |
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Thanks to answer |
Check the Epson Expression Photo XP-850 Small-in-One Printer at EPSON.COM as one example of printer.
Navigate the site: Home > Products > Epson Printers > All-in-One Printers > Expression Photo for Amazing Photos > Epson Expression Photo XP-850 Small-in-One Printer Which printer to get depends on your overall needs. Some of the higer end printers such as the Stilus Photo R2000 and above have better inks available and do wide format high quality photo paper as well. I have used several different Epson models over the past, all printed DVD nicely (manual feed), but my printers are several years old not, not among the current models. I have not used other brand printers for CD/DVD/BD. But I have found the inkjet printable to be a reliable technology and mostly use TY brand for DVD-R. As to ink, I tend to shy away from the generics and third party refill kits. I've had inkjet and laser printers clog or start to print poorly using them on occasion, and it is not worth the potential problem to me, but your tollerance for that risk may be different. In any case the ink is a minor portion of the cost to produce a high quality DVD or BD, especially if they are relatively small production runs. Buy the inkjet printable CD/DVD/BD media from your usual sources. Just be sure the surface is listed as inkjet printable. |
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