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  #1  
06-28-2011, 03:33 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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After reading many posts about DVD cases, (like at DVD / CD Storage - Best cases, wallets, sleeves ?),
I am thinking of buying a general storage case to place large jewel cases in, like http://www.supermediastore.com/pr...ic-capacity-clear).

I mostly would need it for archival purposes, to remove once a year or less. Has anyone else bought large DVD cases with which they are satisfied?
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  #2  
06-30-2011, 01:48 AM
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Where would these be stored, precisely?
In a closet, on a shelf in a room, in a drawer, in a file cabinet, etc?

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  #3  
06-30-2011, 02:08 AM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Thanks for responding. Probably either in a closet in the beginning or upstairs in a quasi-climate-controlled attic.
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  #4  
07-01-2011, 06:22 AM
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Definitely do NOT buy the clear case.
One of the worst enemies of optical media is light. In the past 3 months alone, I've seen a lot of insanity involving media storage.

Example 1: There was an episode of a British TV show that was supposed to be taking place in the digital archiving room of a police station. I think I was watching a rerun of Law & Order UK. The discs were stored on some kind of crazy shelf made of glass, in a room with bright florescent lights, in clear cases, with the dye layer aimed into the light. You may as well just throw the discs away now. Granted, this was "just a TV show" but somebody clearly doesn't know anything about discs -- whether it was the prop crew, or even a real police station that the prop crew used as a model.

Example 2: Clear storage bins, like the one you linked to at SMS. That's just terrible.

There are 2-3 more examples, but I'm apparently too tired and frazzled this morning to remember what those were.

Get this case: http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/600-disc-aluminum-leather-like-case
Dark, black, attractive, strong, reasonably priced. (Good media cases are often in the $50 to $75 range.)

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  #5  
07-01-2011, 05:36 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Well thank goodness I don't watch TV then! Nevertheless, I wonder how light could greatly affect a disc assuming they are stored in a climate-controlled area and are not in the way of UV light, unless you are considering the long-term effect of florescent lights, which do emit minuscule amounts of UV radiation through their filters. From the Council on Library and Information Resources (http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec5.html):

Quote:
Light should have minimal, if any, effect on RW and RAM discs, for the phase-changing film used in such discs is not light sensitive. This film, however, is affected by heat; in fact, it is heat generated from the intense laser beam that writes data in the phase-changing film. Heat buildup in RW or RAM discs caused by direct sunlight will accelerate the degradation rate of the phase-changing film just as it does that of the dye in R discs. The phase-changing film in RW and RAM discs degrades naturally, and from heat buildup by direct sunlight, at a faster rate than the dye in R discs.
While I have already bought two clear cases, I can always line them with black or return them. I plan to store them in a room that is rarely accessed. However, some reviews I have read about the 600-DVD case and the 1000-DVD version mentioned that it is not suitable for holding jewel cases, but only those made of paper. The quality of the construction seems to vary as well.
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  #6  
07-04-2011, 03:21 AM
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CLIR is good, but not without its share of deflections and odd information.

For example, their assumption that RW media should last as long as the rest of CD/DVD technology, because "these discs should still be stable enough to outlast the current CD or DVD technology." That's simply ridiculous, I assure you. DVD+RW media, for example, has been proven to fail within a short lifespan in our tests. The same is true of many savvy individuals who have tested and lost RW media, or even the non-savvy average consumer who has experienced DVD+RW that "suddenly stopped working." CLIR's deflection is hidden behind the disclaimer that "life expectancy tests are seldom done for this medium." Or as I would translate it, "We don't really know, we've not bothered testing, we're just guessing blindly."

So read carefully. CLIR at least does a better job than the National Archives, whose documentation is filled with myths.

Anyway, back to topic...

Discs are affected by a simple list of factors:
- Heat
- Light
- Humidity / moisture
- Handling / Usage (i.e., scratches)
- Geometry (i.e., if the disc has warped)

Light is on the list. Therefore I'd look to cover the cases with black lining on the inside. Or return the cases for an exchange of better cases.

One thing I'd point out is that the links from earlier in this thread now redirect to the Supermediastore homepage, as it appears that they've stopped carrying the specific disc trunks/cases being discussed. That's not the first time I've seen that happen. If you see what you like, in terms of disc storage, buy first and ask questions later. Otherwise it may be gone for the "later".

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  #7  
07-04-2011, 07:54 PM
The Barking Cow The Barking Cow is offline
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I just joined up today, so, I missed out on seeing the original post that referred to the case. Was this the one?

Also, I bought this case a while back. Is it safe to store the DVDs that way? My plastic covers in the book are somewhat frosted; and the DVDs are all labeled.

Thanks in advance,

TBC
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  #8  
07-04-2011, 08:43 PM
The Barking Cow The Barking Cow is offline
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What does CLIR stand for? Connecticut Loves It's Ribs ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
CLIR is good, but not without its share of deflections and odd information.

For example, their assumption that RW media should last as long as the rest of CD/DVD technology, because "these discs should still be stable enough to outlast the current CD or DVD technology." That's simply ridiculous, I assure you. DVD+RW media, for example, has been proven to fail within a short lifespan in our tests. The same is true of many savvy individuals who have tested and lost RW media, or even the non-savvy average consumer who has experienced DVD+RW that "suddenly stopped working." CLIR's deflection is hidden behind the disclaimer that "life expectancy tests are seldom done for this medium." Or as I would translate it, "We don't really know, we've not bothered testing, we're just guessing blindly."

So read carefully. CLIR at least does a better job than the National Archives, whose documentation is filled with myths.

Anyway, back to topic...

Discs are affected by a simple list of factors:
- Heat
- Light
- Humidity / moisture
- Handling / Usage (i.e., scratches)
- Geometry (i.e., if the disc has warped)

Light is on the list. Therefore I'd look to cover the cases with black lining on the inside. Or return the cases for an exchange of better cases.

One thing I'd point out is that the links from earlier in this thread now redirect to the Supermediastore homepage, as it appears that they've stopped carrying the specific disc trunks/cases being discussed. That's not the first time I've seen that happen. If you see what you like, in terms of disc storage, buy first and ask questions later. Otherwise it may be gone for the "later".
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  #9  
07-04-2011, 09:27 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Barking Cow View Post
What does CLIR stand for? Connecticut Loves It's Ribs ??
It stands for the Council on Library and Information Resources, which has a guide on the handling of optical discs. The first link you listed is in fact what was mentioned but for the reasons listed above I skip such a purchase.
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  #10  
07-05-2011, 07:07 AM
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All links in the thread have been fixed.

As per above, get this case: http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/600-disc-aluminum-leather-like-case ~ only $62. Dark, black, attractive, strong, reasonably priced. (Good media cases are often in the $50 to $75 range.) It holds sleeves, full jewel cases, and slim jewel cases (most suggested).

Quote:
Also, I bought this case a while back. Is it safe to store the DVDs that way?
No. Wallets scratch media at a microscopic (and sometimes macroscopic, aka "naked eye") level, ruining the disc each time it's removed and returned to the wallet. Read this page: Reviews > DVD Cases/Storage and Where to Buy. Such scratches don't make a huge difference on CD media, but the fine optical grooves of a DVD are easily affected. As per the review, fine a wallet that isn't "tight" on the discs, if a wallet is required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Barking Cow View Post
What does CLIR stand for? Connecticut Loves It's Ribs ??
I did put "Connecticut Loves It's Ribs" into Google, and it brought back a list of restaurants. Now I'm hungry.

CLIR = Council on Library and Information Resources
It's a good source of info for the care and handling of media, both interim and archival. Thought not perfect, for the reason stated earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Barking Cow View Post
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  #11  
07-05-2011, 10:38 AM
The Barking Cow The Barking Cow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
All links in the thread have been fixed.

As per above, get this case: http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/600-disc-aluminum-leather-like-case ~ only $62. Dark, black, attractive, strong, reasonably priced. (Good media cases are often in the $50 to $75 range.) It holds sleeves, full jewel cases, and slim jewel cases (most suggested).

No. Wallets scratch media at a microscopic (and sometimes macroscopic, aka "naked eye") level, ruining the disc each time it's removed and returned to the wallet. Read this page: Reviews > DVD Cases/Storage and Where to Buy. Such scratches don't make a huge difference on CD media, but the fine optical grooves of a DVD are easily affected. As per the review, fine a wallet that isn't "tight" on the discs, if a wallet is required.


I did put "Connecticut Loves It's Ribs" into Google, and it brought back a list of restaurants. Now I'm hungry.

CLIR = Council on Library and Information Resources
It's a good source of info for the care and handling of media, both interim and archival. Thought not perfect, for the reason stated earlier.


Welcome to the site.

That's an awesome username, too.
Quote:
All links in the thread have been fixed.
I'm glad to see my hunch was right.

Quote:
No. Wallets scratch media at a microscopic (and sometimes macroscopic, aka "naked eye") level, ruining the disc each time it's removed and returned to the wallet. Read this page: Reviews > DVD Cases/Storage and Where to Buy. Such scratches don't make a huge difference on CD media, but the fine optical grooves of a DVD are easily affected. As per the review, fine a wallet that isn't "tight" on the discs, if a wallet is required.

I thought about that, at the time of purchase, but my dad had a smaller one he kept in his desk, and he said his CD/DVDs had been working fine, so I bought it. Dang! Oh well, you live and learn. Out of the few that I tried, more were unreadable, so they couldn't be "finished" by the recorder. Some wouldn't be recognized; and some failed during the finishing process.

My apologies for going off topic by a hair. We now return you to your local stations.

Quote:
I did put "Connecticut Loves It's Ribs" into Google, and it brought back a list of restaurants. Now I'm hungry.
I thought it was hilarious. The northeast - Ribs? Haha. (usually the south is known for its ribs.)

Quote:
Welcome to the site.
That's an awesome username, too.
Thanks.
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  #12  
07-05-2011, 11:58 AM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
CLIR is good, but not without its share of deflections and odd information.

For example, their assumption that RW media should last as long as the rest of CD/DVD technology, because "these discs should still be stable enough to outlast the current CD or DVD technology." That's simply ridiculous, I assure you. DVD+RW media, for example, has been proven to fail within a short lifespan in our tests. The same is true of many savvy individuals who have tested and lost RW media, or even the non-savvy average consumer who has experienced DVD+RW that "suddenly stopped working." CLIR's deflection is hidden behind the disclaimer that "life expectancy tests are seldom done for this medium." Or as I would translate it, "We don't really know, we've not bothered testing, we're just guessing blindly."

So read carefully. CLIR at least does a better job than the National Archives, whose documentation is filled with myths.

Anyway, back to topic...

Discs are affected by a simple list of factors:
- Heat
- Light
- Humidity / moisture
- Handling / Usage (i.e., scratches)
- Geometry (i.e., if the disc has warped)

Light is on the list. Therefore I'd look to cover the cases with black lining on the inside. Or return the cases for an exchange of better cases.

One thing I'd point out is that the links from earlier in this thread now redirect to the Supermediastore homepage, as it appears that they've stopped carrying the specific disc trunks/cases being discussed. That's not the first time I've seen that happen. If you see what you like, in terms of disc storage, buy first and ask questions later. Otherwise it may be gone for the "later".
Can you explain and/or indicate websites that explain the scientific reasoning behind listing non-UV light as a factor that can cause the deterioration of optical disks?
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  #13  
07-06-2011, 03:36 AM
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Websites? No, not really.

Most of the information we have is from actual references, most of which was in print, in trade manuals, or even original research. Some of it is raw science data, such as the effects of various light sources on dyes, bonding glues and polycarbonate materials. For example, direct sunlight vs indirect sunlight (ambient room light provided by outside source), incandescent vs florescent vs halogen, and even sustained IR. And none of this is in an easily searchable format. The data presented on this site has always come by way of advice based on findings, and not publishing of the findings themselves, nor of the data used to create the findings. Critics of this site (most of whom are a handful of "mom's basement" type keyboard warriors found in 3-4 select online forums) want said information given to them for free, however it's neither easy to do, nor all that enticing to take on (given the $0 return, and the likelihood that they'll just try to discredit it with Fox News style tactics).

I did spend about 20 minutes looking where I thought this research should be. However, it was not there.

I'll make note of this request, and see if I can track down some of the science docs again later this year.

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  #14  
07-06-2011, 02:51 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
Websites? No, not really.

Most of the information we have is from actual references, most of which was in print, in trade manuals, or even original research. Some of it is raw science data, such as the effects of various light sources on dyes, bonding glues and polycarbonate materials. For example, direct sunlight vs indirect sunlight (ambient room light provided by outside source), incandescent vs florescent vs halogen, and even sustained IR. And none of this is in an easily searchable format. The data presented on this site has always come by way of advice based on findings, and not publishing of the findings themselves, nor of the data used to create the findings. Critics of this site (most of whom are a handful of "mom's basement" type keyboard warriors found in 3-4 select online forums) want said information given to them for free, however it's neither easy to do, nor all that enticing to take on (given the $0 return, and the likelihood that they'll just try to discredit it with Fox News style tactics).

I did spend about 20 minutes looking where I thought this research should be. However, it was not there.

I'll make note of this request, and see if I can track down some of the science docs again later this year.

I appreciate it. In the meantime it is safer to assume it does harm optical media. I could not find much online either, though the CLIR document above is actually taken from the guide listed here: http://www.itl.nist.gov/iad/894.05/d...dlingGuide.pdf

Another guide on the archiving of optical CDs/DVDs and its associated risks (http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/001...77/147782E.pdf) does not mention non-UV light, but does offer and reject a questionable claim by Kodak "that 95% of their CD-Rs will maintain a data lifetime of a hundred years in an office environment" (p15). Another site states that some Kodak CD-Rs "will have a lifetime greater than 217 years" (http://www.cd-info.com/archiving/kodak/index.html)
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07-07-2011, 01:22 AM
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The Aussie document at the UNESCO site looks to be well written. I skimmed it quickly. Some excellent information there -- much of which is the same thing we've been saying for many years at this site. I've save it, so I can read it in detail when I get a little more free time. I think I've seen this one before.

For whatever reason, when it comes to optical media, the U.S. government is really clueless as compared to several "British" countries (Canada, Australia, UK, India, etc), as well as a few European countries (France, others). For example, last year, the Library of Congress released this anti-disc rant that isn't always supported by evidence. For example, the idea that CD "sounds different" -- a cop-out blame game against the CD format, instead of the bad audio work commonly found in the age of CD and MP3. And the oversight of distinguishing "good" discs from "bad" discs, like CMC vs Taiyo Yuden.

_______

The CD-Info site looks to be a mix of glossary entries, spreading myths/misinformation (i.e., gold DVD-R "better" than "aluminum" DVD-R, 200+ year CD-R lifespans, etc), regurgitated press releases on the blog, and generally just an all-around crap site. It's one of those places where you may get dumber by reading what's there. Some of that stuff appears to have been swiped from other websites (manufacturers, magazines, etc), and some of it was long ago discredited within the media community.

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