Need to find out when a CD-R was created based on serial/dye numbers on disc

dagardc · #1 09-20-2011, 04:04 PM

Trying to authenticate the timeframe that two discs were created based on the physical numbers printed on the center of the disc. Wondering if anyone here would be able to assist based on the number formats or can point me to a reference? These CD-Rs have no branding/labeling on them whatsoever other than the numbers.

From feedback received on other forums they are Ritek and Verbatim, but I was wondering if anyone had an actual reference to interpret these stamps to dates (even if it's just a year).

Regarding my intent, the timeframe of when a disc could have been created can be important in a legal matter. The manufacturing info just helps to provide a frame of reference (for example if the media was manufactured in 2005 but someone claims they were burned in 1999, that would be an issue).

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

kpmedia · #2 09-20-2011, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagardc

Regarding my intent, the timeframe of when a disc could have been created can be important in a legal matter. The manufacturing info just helps to provide a frame of reference (for example if the media was manufactured in 2005 but someone claims they were burned in 1999, that would be an issue).

There's two ways to get assistance on this.

1. Asking the online community. What we'll need to see is not just the hub code, but the media ID on the disc, as well as a photo of the disc itself (assuming it's not been covered up with a label -- in which case it needs to be removed). Disc manufacturers change the media ID for every new generation of disc, and they change the brand markings every year or two. By triangulating those features, we can often pinpoint the media to within a few years.

2. Asking the manufacturer. If this is indeed a legal case, the opinions of the online community won't count for much. You'll need an expert witness, or some sort of documentation from the manufacturer stating what the batch code means, and hopefully connecting it to a manufacturing location/date. Given the number of mergers/bankruptcies that have happened in the past, that can be impossible. But if the disc is truly Ritek or Mitsubishi, then you may be in luck, as those manufacturers still exist today.

dagardc · #3 09-20-2011, 04:49 PM

Thanks for the prompt reply. Unfortunately these discs have no branding or labeling whatsoever other than the hub code. I have forensic images of them and will look into the media ID. Is there a reference for the different media IDs and what they may look like?

Regarding the manufacturers, I've looked into that but only found dead-ends. Do you or anyone on this forum have current contact info for these types of requests?

admin · #4 09-20-2011, 09:08 PM

The media ID is not printed on the disc.
You put the disc in a computer, and then use special software to read the ID. It's digital data held on the disc itself.

The software is mostly all freeware: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/medi...a-quality.html
And then the DVD reviews and articles on this site have information that equally applies to CD tech.

pepst · #5 09-21-2011, 07:10 AM

I can say with 100% confidence that the second CD-R was made by Ritek in 1999. Ritek's serial numbering is very easy to decrypt and hasn't changed for more than 12 years.
Dating the age of older Mitsubishi Chemicals (MCC) made CD-Rs can be a little tricky - they had been manufactured in a number of different facilities in a different countries (Ireland, Japan, Mexico, Taiwan) and thefore, the serial numbering style is different.
But, I have got about 20 Verbatim AZO CD-Rs, that were made in 1998-2001 and their serial numbers always begin with "8" - "1" or "V8" - "S8" / "S8" - "S1" so it is pretty safe to say that the second made was made in 1999 as its serial number begins with "9".

dagardc · #6 09-21-2011, 02:33 PM

Thanks pepst!

Admin, I don't have the discs in my possession, just forensic images of them, so I can't use software to find the media ID. I tried mounting an ISO as well but every piece of software I tried only sees physical devices.

Regarding the 130-H.912072346D10 serial, on another forum pepst has already decoded this as originating on July 12, 2009, based on the numbers after the ".". Does anyone know of documentation available to confirm this? As was mentioned earlier, it's hard to substantiate things to people in the legal community without stronger supporting evidence.

pepst · #7 09-21-2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagardc

Does anyone know of documentation available to confirm this? As was mentioned earlier, it's hard to substantiate things to people in the legal community without stronger supporting evidence.

Except for this link (that I already post on the myce.com board and which describes the serial numbering system used on Ritek's CD-R and DVDr media) I can only advice you to try to contact both companies directly:

http://www.ritek.com/_crm/support.asp
https://www.m-kagaku.co.jp/english/a...e/002_001.html

kpmedia · #8 09-21-2011, 03:11 PM

I'd add that Verbatim Europe is generally easier to contact, for non-customer needs. Media info for the media. (Discs info for journalists.) Same for other non-customer type contact. When it comes to Verbatim USA, you get lost in the land of phone jockeys that mostly treat you like an idiot. Contacting Mitsubishi directly would more like kick back a template response, and at a very slow speed. If you do actually get through to a person that could help, odds are they'd be a native Japanese speaker.

I've not had contact with Ritek in a while now. Not since the recession kicked in.

Another method would be to contact the authorized USA distributors, or authorized retailers. Microboards, Meritline and Supermediastore have some excellent knowledge on what I would refer to as "stocking" or "sales" type information. For example, a SKU, disc surface, physical labels, etc. They're observant.

I'd look at contacting Ritek USA before contacting Ritek Taiwan (parent HQ).

I'd add that Verbatim Europe is generally easier to contact, for non-customer needs. Media info for the media. (Discs info for journalists.) Same for other non-customer type contact. When it comes to Verbatim USA, you get lost in the land of phone jockeys that mostly treat you like an idiot. Contacting Mitsubishi directly would more like kick back a template response, and at a very slow speed. If you do actually get through to a person that could help, odds are they'd be a native Japanese speaker.

I've not had contact with Ritek in a while now. Not since the recession kicked in.

Another method would be to contact the authorized USA distributors, or authorized retailers. Microboards, Meritline and Supermediastore have some excellent knowledge on what I would refer to as "stocking" or "sales" type information. For example, a SKU, disc surface, physical labels, etc. They're observant.

I'd look at contacting Ritek USA before contacting Ritek Taiwan (parent HQ).

dagardc · #9 09-21-2011, 04:01 PM

Thanks again to both of you for the information. Pepst, the link you sent was difficult to decipher (used Google Translate feature built-in to Chrome) and I didn't see anything there the same format as the Mitsubishi hub code.

I've tried to contact Ritek through the link you provided but it goes to a "page cannot be displayed" when submitting it. Mitsubishi worked though.

The hard part is that these discs have nothing printed on them other than the codes.

dagardc · #10 09-21-2011, 04:32 PM

Also, to clarify your earlier comments Pepst, both discs start with a 9 in part of the sequence:
130-H.912072346D10 (is Ritek/AZO according to ATIP interpretation done by software at time of imaging)
9E24F221861 (MCC/Azo)

Did you say that you're 100% that the 9E2 disc is Ritek from 1999 or were you talking about the other one? I wasn't sure if you meant one of them was a Verbatim serial and other is Ritek or if Verbatim was made by Ritek and that's how you knew about the 130-H disc.

pepst · #11 09-22-2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagardc

Did you say that you're 100% that the 9E2 disc is Ritek from 1999 or were you talking about the other one? I wasn't sure if you meant one of them was a Verbatim serial and other is Ritek or if Verbatim was made by Ritek and that's how you knew about the 130-H disc.

I was talking about the "130-H.912072346D10" disc, which was made by Ritek and that I am 100% sure that it was made in 1999. The second disc (made by Mitsubishi Chemicals/Verbatim) seems to be made in 1999 too, although not with 100% certainty.
By the way - do you need to know when these discs were made or when they were burned?

dagardc · #12 09-22-2011, 02:36 PM

Thanks for the clarification - I just need to have an idea when they were produced by the manufacturer, not actually burned.

DigiX · #13 10-30-2011, 03:42 PM

The first disc with the serial number of "9E24F221861", is a Verbatim CD-R disc. This disc was manufactured in Taiwan on "F"ebruary "24", 199"9". In the serial number, the "9" means 1999, the "24" means the 24th day of the month, and the "F" means "February". This disc is an AZO Blue Dye disc (which has a "blue" bottom and a "white" writable top) and has been out-of-production since late 1999. They were "extremely" unreliable and that is why Verbatim ceased production in 1999. There also had a tendency to "decompose" (the AZO "blue" plastic would peal off). Verbatim America's LLC. Customer Support Number is: 800 538 8589. I am also 100% positive that the Ritek disc was manufactured in 1999 and is out of production. Good Luck!

admin · #14 10-31-2011, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigiX

This disc is an AZO Blue Dye disc (which has a "blue" bottom and a "white" writable top) and has been out-of-production since late 1999. They were "extremely" unreliable and that is why Verbatim ceased production in 1999.

These were some of the only blank CD-R of the era that would work properly in Playstation systems, Sega Dreamcasts, and Sony car CD players. Discs were up to $1 each blank, and were commonly found in those weird $20 - $20 rebate sales of the late 1990s. (How did anybody make money with those silly rebates? Not that I care, I got a lot of tax-only costs goodies!)

I have a bunch of these, still in my car, with that same now-ancient Sony player popular of the era.

Quote:

There also had a tendency to "decompose" (the AZO "blue" plastic would peal off). Verbatim America's LLC.

I can attest to this. Wallets love to just suck the white coating right off the disc. It would get sticky, meaning it was absorbing humidity excessively. It was the fault of the lacquer -- not the dye or anything else in the disc.

GQ gold coatings had the same issue, same era.

NJRoadfan · #15 10-31-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by admin

These were some of the only blank CD-R of the era that would work properly in Playstation systems, Sega Dreamcasts, and Sony car CD players. Discs were up to $1 each blank, and were commonly found in those weird $20 - $20 rebate sales of the late 1990s. (How did anybody make money with those silly rebates? Not that I care, I got a lot of tax-only costs goodies!)

Made in USA TDK "Certified Plus" were another one along with some of the Made in USA Ricohs (in house production, before the Ritek era). I'm guessing nobody really made all that much money, thats why were are stuck with a handful of overseas disc makers that put out mostly crap blanks!