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  #61  
02-18-2018, 10:10 AM
bvanevery bvanevery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamemaniaco View Post
Sorry Lordsmurf for my questions is because I have curiosity and I like to learn about optical media and you are the only person with knowledge in the subject to help me, thank you, my friend.
Actually that is not true. There are other sources of information on the subject, and also closely related subjects, like "museum conservation" in general. Really, if you want to know when condensation is going to form on your optical media, you need to go read that Conservation Physics website I offered earlier. It will help you with anything you want to preserve. They even talk about the risk to celluloid film when going from cold storage to a warmer room.
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  #62  
02-18-2018, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gamemaniaco View Post
Sorry Lordsmurf for my questions is because I have curiosity and I like to learn about optical media and you are the only person with knowledge in the subject to help me, thank you, my friend.
And I like to teach, but my "students" need to show growth over time. Our conversations should grow in depth, not constantly re-hash the exact same topic. And you do show growth, bringing new topics/questions ... but you keep harping on this one concept of estimated lifespan specific to your situation. It's not going to change.

Quote:
I write down on a paper the actual estimate of how many years of life my mdisc verbatim dvd and my dvd-r verbatim azo in my storage conditions (a few days of rain 90% RH 29 ° C in 6 months of the year and in the other 6 months of the year year the climate is dry and warm 50-64% RH 30-36ēC) and with this storage
That's good. I still use pen-pencil/paper myself. Notes in drawers, DVD cases, etc.

Quote:
I met the approximate expectation but I did not know of the existence of datarius drives that masked the tests in common drives
Datarius is good for what it is, but you must understand it's not using real-world conditions. It's lab conditions. So while theoretical data is nice, it's not necessarily useful. The data can also be fungible, subject to testing bias. And when it comes to companies selling stuff, you must understand they always put on a show for you. You're not being told about not-great results on certain tests, only the best results from select tests. You need an understanding for both science and marketing to see this. Such ideas are "common knowledge", but most don't actually understand why/how.

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Originally Posted by bvanevery View Post
Actually that is not true. There are other sources of information on the subject, and also closely related subjects, like "museum conservation" in general. Really, if you want to know when condensation is going to form on your optical media, you need to go read that Conservation Physics website I offered earlier. It will help you with anything you want to preserve. They even talk about the risk to celluloid film when going from cold storage to a warmer room.
I'm one of the few people that have studied everything from patents to chemistry to meteorology, on the specific topic of optical media longevity. But while I know science, my career is/was video. So at some point, my knowledge runs thin, or runs out. There's also issues with memory, and I forget some of this stuff as years go by. My notes are so numerous that it's not always easy to find something. Most of my geographic data is specific to USA, Canada and western Europe -- not South America or Asia or Africa.

I agree that's a great resource that he should read. And myself as well.

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  #63  
02-18-2018, 11:10 AM
gamemaniaco gamemaniaco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
And I like to teach, but my "students" need to show growth over time. Our conversations should grow in depth, not constantly re-hash the exact same topic. And you do show growth, bringing new topics/questions ... but you keep harping on this one concept of estimated lifespan specific to your situation. It's not going to change.

That's good. I still use pen-pencil/paper myself. Notes in drawers, DVD cases, etc.

Datarius is good for what it is, but you must understand it's not using real-world conditions. It's lab conditions. So while theoretical data is nice, it's not necessarily useful. The data can also be fungible, subject to testing bias. And when it comes to companies selling stuff, you must understand they always put on a show for you. You're not being told about not-great results on certain tests, only the best results from select tests. You need an understanding for both science and marketing to see this. Such ideas are "common knowledge", but most don't actually understand why/how.


I'm one of the few people that have studied everything from patents to chemistry to meteorology, on the specific topic of optical media longevity. But while I know science, my career is/was video. So at some point, my knowledge runs thin, or runs out. There's almost issues with memory, and I forget some of this stuff as years go by. My notes are so numerous that it's not always easy to find something. Most of my geographic data is specific to USA, Canada and western Europe -- not South America or Asia or Africa.

I agree that's a great resource that he should read. And myself as well.
Do companies like millenniata, ritek (manufactures mdisc) do not do an isolated test with common drives for them to show the real expectation of a disk? they only test with datarius drives? datarius drives read disks with many errors but the same disks can not be read on common drives

Is it important for me to send an email to Ritek (manufactures mdisc) or millenniata (mdisc company) asking what drives they use in disk life tests?

some days of rain 90% RH 29 ° C in period 6 months ray of the year and in the all days other 6 months dry season of the year the climate is dry and warm 50-64% RH 30-36ēC is enough to real drive calculation (not datarius) a reliable 15 year expectation for dvd mdisc verbatim and verbatim dvd-r azo?? 15 best 13
  #64  
03-18-2018, 08:25 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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You asked

Quote:
Do companies like millenniata, ritek (manufactures mdisc) do not do an isolated test with common drives for them to show the real expectation of a disk? they only test with datarius drives? datarius drives read disks with many errors but the same disks can not be read on common drives

Is it important for me to send an email to Ritek (manufactures mdisc) or millenniata (mdisc company) asking what drives they use in disk life tests?

some days of rain 90% RH 29 ° C in period 6 months ray of the year and in the all days other 6 months dry season of the year the climate is dry and warm 50-64% RH 30-36ēC is enough to real drive calculation (not datarius) a reliable 15 year expectation for dvd mdisc verbatim and verbatim dvd-r azo?? 15 best 13

Read more: MDisc DVD-R lifespan with 90% humidity?
1. Have you visited the Datarius web page to see what their products are, what they do, and the businesses they target? (The site content looks old, and not clear if they are still in the optical media test business, but their products on the used market are not cheap.) My impression is they are (or at least were) more focused on evaluating burned or stamped media with content rather than blank media. The purpose was to ensure duplication/replication houses produced readable media. In any case the information provided by a calibrated Datarius drive will tell you how the disk you are testing compares to the standard for that type of disk. It will not tell you if another individual drive can read it because it does not know the capability of the other drive in question. However, if tests show that a disk that is within spec it should be read by a drive that is also within spec and capable of reading the format in question. That says nothing about the specific drives you have.

2. Asking what drives they use in their testing will not give you any useful information for assessing the life expectancy of your disks. But if it makes you feel good ...

3. The question is not at all clear; however, nothing changes from the answers you have been provided previously with respect to your environment, disk storage, and life expectancy.
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  #65  
03-19-2018, 05:29 PM
gamemaniaco gamemaniaco is offline
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I would like Lordsmurf's answer to these 3 questions that I posted above
  #66  
03-20-2018, 12:12 PM
JoRodd JoRodd is offline
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How about making a donation to the site as a way of saying thanks for your multitude of questions?
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  #67  
06-28-2018, 01:24 PM
gamemaniaco gamemaniaco is offline
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i need questions answers

1 Do companies like millenniata, ritek (manufactures mdisc) do not do an isolated test with common drives for them to show the real expectation of a disk? they only test with datarius drives? datarius drives read disks with many errors but the same disks can not be read on common drives

2 Is it important for me to send an email to Ritek (manufactures mdisc) or millenniata (mdisc company) asking what drives they use in disk life tests?

3 some days of rain 90% RH 29 ° C in period 6 months ray of the year and in the all days other 6 months dry season of the year the climate is dry and warm 50-64% RH 30-36ēC is enough to real drive calculation (not datarius) a reliable 15 year expectation for dvd mdisc verbatim and verbatim dvd-r azo?? 15

4 - MDisc engineer said dvd mdisc verbatim is tested for longevity by CATS systems, sold by Audio Dev. Are these drives Datarius drives or not?

LS friend could you answer my 4 doubts above?

Which email contact sector of verbatim is the most reliable for me to get true information about the useful life and conservation of optical media dvd mdisc?
  #68  
06-29-2018, 03:42 PM
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You're asking question that I cannot answer.

My main advice here is to not be naive and gullible.
- companies give you biased information, not independently verified
- company reps just give you whatever marketing blah-blah is on hand, never answers anything well or at all

I gave you an answer long ago. It's not changing. Your discs should be fine for 10-15 years, if initial burn was fine, if quality media. It's not a guarantee, but educated guess based on several factors. And there is a % of error, and some disc will fail early, while some can last 2x that time.

This is now an old thread, no new and useful updates, and is therefore closed.

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