MDisc DVD-R lifespan with 90% humidity?

[dpalomaki]

Quote:

I do not know where I will find the humidity and temperatures of my city Limoeiro do Norte Ceara Brazil all year round

Read more: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/media/8014-mdisc-dvd-lifespan-2.html#ixzz531y5Iin0

Then ask someone local to you who knows Brazil, maybe a local radio, TV station, or news paper that provides weather information. If not your city, data for a similar nearby city may be as good information. You know how to post to this site. Search the internet. Don't expect others to to that basic task for you.

[lordsmurf]

It's still a form of dye, even if inorganic.

Sure, 13 years from last year works for me.

You'll just have to ask local for info on humidity/etc. I already gave you my suggestions. Go pester ask somebody at the local college or state government. You'll find somebody eventually.

[gamemaniaco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

It's still a form of dye, even if inorganic.

Sure, 13 years from last year works for me.

You'll just have to ask local for info on humidity/etc. I already gave you my suggestions. Go pester ask somebody at the local college or state government. You'll find somebody eventually.

Would it be best for me to measure the humidity and temperature inside my home by taking a mini digital hygrometer or picking up the annual humidity and temperature at some site or college?

If I keep the disc out of the bag closed the life of the disc will be greater, less than or equal to 13 years? I keep the disc in the black case but I put the case out of the bag

[lordsmurf]

Sure, it can't hurt. Just take that data to somebody local that can tell you more about local climates, and maybe even how the local climates affect things: glues, plastics, dyes -- not necessarily even optical media, but just the raw materials in general. That's something I don't really know, but you local university or government probably does.

The case in a box in a closet is probably the best you can do, and is what my 13 year estimate is based on. Some discs will probably last much longer, but not many if any should last less.

[gamemaniaco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Sure, it can't hurt. Just take that data to somebody local that can tell you more about local climates, and maybe even how the local climates affect things: glues, plastics, dyes -- not necessarily even optical media, but just the raw materials in general. That's something I don't really know, but you local university or government probably does.

The case in a box in a closet is probably the best you can do, and is what my 13 year estimate is based on. Some discs will probably last much longer, but not many if any should last less.

Under my conditions can some burned discs live much longer than 13 years? how to know which disks after burning can live much longer than 13 years under my storage conditions? I have dvd-r verbatim azo and verbatim mdisc dvd

I keep the black cases inside a cardboard box and the box on top (not inside) of the cabinet closet hack

13 years of expectation is for 90% RH and 36 ° C for 365 days in the year under these conditions or is it for 6 months in these conditions of 90% RH and 36 ° C? here a few days of 6 months is wet and cold and 6 months is hot and dry

thanks Lordsmurf for help

[lordsmurf]

Absolutely. Some discs can last much longer, some may not. I gave you a conservative lifespan estimate, so none of should really last less. But that's always possible, hence reason to burn important data multiple times, on multiple media.

You're using the best discs, nothing more can be done. (Aside from move to another location.)

Mixed temps/RH doesn't matter. When you have sustained lengths of time, the damage is done. Being less for some months doesn't negate it having been worse for others. So 90% RH for 6 months vs 12 won't really make a big difference for this conversation. It's already taken into consideration. In theory, you could say 18 years instead of 13, but I'm pretty sure the actual math doesn't work that way. Maybe something like 15 instead of 13.

But you need to realize these are estimates. Not absolute.

In a decade,move the important files to another medium. And done.

[gamemaniaco]

1) I burned 4 mdiscs verbatim and 4 dvd-r verbatim azo and I saved them in the same place, I did the read test of nero disc speed and ok in all of them, will those discs live for at least 15 years or 13? i put discs in case dvd black individual

2) I have not burned discs mdisc and verbatim azo, after 13-15 years will these discs be unusable to redo the recording cycle?

3) after 13-15 years it is possible to test all the disks and know if the glue, dye and polycarbonate are good or bad and create a new useful life estimate of how old these discs will still live?

4) is it important to contact millenniata or ritek manufacturer of mdisc or verbatim and ask for information on the materials (glue, polycarbonate, dye) used to make the discs and ask them for a life estimate for the mdisc and verbatim azo discs?

[dpalomaki]

Why posting the same item many times. You may be on thin ice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamemaniaco

1) I burned 4 mdiscs verbatim and 4 dvd-r verbatim azo and I saved them in the same place, I did the read test of nero disc speed and ok in all of them, will those discs live for at least 15 years or 13? i put discs in case dvd black individual

Most will, a few might not. Better to save a set of duplicates to a reasonably secure different location. And as said many times, test before 13 years.

Quote:

2) I have not burned discs mdisc and verbatim azo, after 13-15 years will these discs be unusable to redo the recording cycle?

Are you asking whether or not 13 year old unrecorded discs will be good for recording? Better to get fresh discs, or what ever the overall best available technology is at that time, when you go to rerecord.

Quote:

3) after 13-15 years it is possible to test all the disks and know if the glue, dye and polycarbonate are good or bad and create a new useful life estimate of how old these discs will still live?

You will know if the disk is good or bad, but if it is bad you will likely not know the failure reason with simple at-home tests. And you probably will not be able to come up with a good estimate of remaining life.

Quote:

4) is it important to contact millenniata or ritek manufacturer of mdisc or verbatim and ask for information on the materials (glue, polycarbonate, dye) used to make the discs and ask them for a life estimate for the mdisc and verbatim azo discs?

If it makes you feel better, give it a try. But I doubt if the information they provide will in any way be meaningful to you in terms of making a better prediction of disk life in your situation. You will probably receive standard marketing literature. Now if you were a major buyer, e.g., millions of discs per year, you might receive better information. But I whether or not you have the technical resources available to make meaningful use of it is a separate issue. The bottom line issue no one can predict precisely is the quality control on the production line or of a single disc. Life expectancies are based on statistics and averages over many discs. The best glue or dye in the world is of no value if the machines make an error.

[gamemaniaco]

thank you friend for the answer, I would also like the opinion of Lordsmuf on these 4 questions

1) I burned 4 mdiscs verbatim and 4 dvd-r verbatim azo and I saved them in the same place, I did the read test of nero disc speed and ok in all of them, will those discs live for at least 15 years or 13? i put discs in case dvd black individual

2) I have not burned discs mdisc and verbatim azo, after 13-15 years will these discs be unusable to redo the recording cycle?

3) after 13-15 years it is possible to test all the disks and know if the glue, dye and polycarbonate are good or bad and create a new useful life estimate of how old these discs will still live?

4) is it important to contact millenniata or ritek manufacturer of mdisc or verbatim and ask for information on the materials (glue, polycarbonate, dye) used to make the discs and ask them for a life estimate for the mdisc and verbatim azo discs?

5) How is the calculation of the DVD mdisc verbatim in 25Cº 50% to have a useful life of 1332 years? how to calculate the real estimate and not marketing?

[lordsmurf]

1. Preference.
2. Already answered.
3. No tests for that, just visual inspection.
4. No. They'll just give you marketing materials. Don't be naive, blindly trusting companies.
5. It's only useful data is that's where your storage climate is.

[gamemaniaco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

1. Preference.
2. Already answered.
3. No tests for that, just visual inspection.
4. No. They'll just give you marketing materials. Don't be naive, blindly trusting companies.
5. It's only useful data is that's where your storage climate is.

1 all the drives millenniata uses for the mdisc dvd longevity test are datarius drives? they say they were written using an HLDS unit, data quality was measured in an audioDev CATS system, are these drives datarius?

2 they say dvd mdisc 25 degrees C 75% of RH with 99% confidence, greater than 300 years.

3 If MDisc Verbatim passed the read test of nero discspeed 5 then in my case under my conditions would it live 13 to 15 years?

4 after 13 to 15 years for which media do I have to copy the data? I do not know if millenniata would have manufactured mdisc in the future, or if there is a prospect of new, more resilient storage media

5 after 15 years if the disc continues to glue the layers so the glue is good and will live a lot? Is there no software test to determine the length of useful life after the age of 13?

6 in college I did not find records of the humidity and annual temperature of my city, do you know any website with this precise information?

Lordsmurf friend respond my 6 questions above
Lordsmurf friend respond my 6 questions above

[bvanevery]

If you want your work to withstand the ages, you will need to learn how to do many things yourself. You have concerns that the vast majority of the human race doesn't have. And although some may share your concerns here, do not forget that you have your problems and they have their problems. The internet is best when it helps people to help themselves.

What I've learned about archiving to date, is about attempting to preserve acrylic paintings for hundreds of years. I found 1 site on the physics of all of this, that is substantially better than all the rest: Conservation Physics. Given the volume of questions you've asked here, I suggest you go to that site and read everything they have. I mean it, everything. Fortunately the author of the site has a flair for narrative, and writes to be engaging to an audience. That is part of why the site is much better than others.

I have been worried about acrylic paintings. Optical media aren't the same thing, but the physical principles of relative humidity fluctuation are identical. If you read that site, you will come up with better understanding about how to protect your work. The guy who runs the site is mainly concerned with low budget archiving, such as "town museums" that do not have the budget of say The British Museum to get things done. His materials can either help you, or point you in the direction of what will help you "in the jungle".

[gamemaniaco]

i need Lordsmurf respond my 6 question above

[bvanevery]

I'm sure you've had The Rolling Stones down in Brazil.

Quote:

You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try some time
You just might find
You get what you need

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvanevery

I'm sure you've had The Rolling Stones down in Brazil.

This made me LOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvanevery

I found 1 site on the physics of all of this, that is substantially better than all the rest: Conservation Physics. Given the volume of questions you've asked here, I suggest you go to that site and read everything they have. I mean it, everything. Fortunately the author of the site has a flair for narrative, and writes to be engaging to an audience. That is part of why the site is much better than others.
I have been worried about acrylic paintings. Optical media aren't the same thing, but the physical principles of relative humidity fluctuation are identical. If you read that site, you will come up with better understanding about how to protect your work. The guy who runs the site is mainly concerned with low budget archiving, such as "town museums" that do not have the budget of say The British Museum to get things done. His materials can either help you, or point you in the direction of what will help you "in the jungle".

Very interesting post. I must read that site myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamemaniaco

1 all the drives millenniata uses for the mdisc dvd longevity test are datarius drives? they say they were written using an HLDS unit, data quality was measured in an audioDev CATS system, are these drives datarius?
2 they say dvd mdisc 25 degrees C 75% of RH with 99% confidence, greater than 300 years.
3 If MDisc Verbatim passed the read test of nero discspeed 5 then in my case under my conditions would it live 13 to 15 years?
4 after 13 to 15 years for which media do I have to copy the data? I do not know if millenniata would have manufactured mdisc in the future, or if there is a prospect of new, more resilient storage media
5 after 15 years if the disc continues to glue the layers so the glue is good and will live a lot? Is there no software test to determine the length of useful life after the age of 13?
6 in college I did not find records of the humidity and annual temperature of my city, do you know any website with this precise information?

1. Not addressing this again.
2. Nor this.
3. Sure.

4. This one I'll answer. And the answer is ... whatever appears to look good in 15 years. In 2018, I'm not privy to life in the 2030s. Your guess is as good as mine. Most likely, solid state, magnetic disks, or optical discs. In other words, more of the same, but hopefully better.

5. You can't test glue with software. That's daft.

6. Nope. Good luck.

You're seriously getting close to being banned. Watch it. Learn patience.

[gamemaniaco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

This made me LOL.


Very interesting post. I must read that site myself.


1. Not addressing this again.
2. Nor this.
3. Sure.

4. This one I'll answer. And the answer is ... whatever appears to look good in 15 years. In 2018, I'm not privy to life in the 2030s. Your guess is as good as mine. Most likely, solid state, magnetic disks, or optical discs. In other words, more of the same, but hopefully better.

5. You can't test glue with software. That's daft.

6. Nope. Good luck.

You're seriously getting close to being banned. Watch it. Learn patience.

Thanks Lordsmurf

In the estimation of 13-15 years mdisc verbatim dvd you analyzed Datarius drive and real drive and the conditions of 90% RH 40ºC in 365 years in the year? I like this calculation and I want to learn but here 365 days a year is not 90% but 80-90% prevails?

Is it more acceptable 13 or 15 years for my conditions?

[bvanevery]

For your edification, I found some old climate data from Brazil in NOAA's foreign documents collection. If you want to know what was happening in 1939 or 1953, I think I found it.
http://library.noaa.gov/Collections/...l-Climate-Data
I tried searching for Brazilian cities in their main database search but it didn't work. Maybe you will have better luck. But most likely, what you need is Brazil's equivalent of NOAA.

[gamemaniaco]

my 2 questions above

In the estimation of 13-15 years mdisc verbatim dvd you analyzed Datarius drive and real drive and the conditions of 90% RH 40ºC in 365 years in the year? I like this calculation and I want to learn but here 365 days a year is not 90% but 80-90% prevails?

Is it more acceptable 13 or 15 years for my conditions?

if the disc has an expectation of 13 years in 40Cº 90% in 365 days, if this humidity and temperature is in the middle of the year the expectation doubles? in the other half of the year 37ºC 50-60%

[lordsmurf]

13 or 15 ... same difference. Within margin of error. It's just an estimate.

Your discs could fail tomorrow, or in 50 years. But most, given your storage conditions, will probably be sometime just over a decade.

You need to learn to let this go. It's getting to be too much now. If it's important, back it up on multiple media, stored in multiple locations. This isn't that hard of a concept. Even computer illiterates can understand backup concepts (extra copies in several places). This concept existed far before computers -- they were called libraries.

I tire of your posts on this specific subject. Beating a dead horse.

[gamemaniaco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

13 or 15 ... same different. Within margin of error. It's just an estimate.

Your discs could fail tomorrow, or in 50 years. But most, given your storage conditions, will probably be sometime just over a decade.

You need to learn to let this go. It's getting to be too much now. If it's important, back it up on multiple media, stored in multiple locations. This isn't that hard of a concept. Even computer illiterate can understand backup concepts (extra copies in several places). This concept existed far before computers -- they were called libraries.

I tire of your posts on this specific subject. Beating a dead horse.

Sorry Lordsmurf for my questions is because I have curiosity and I like to learn about optical media and you are the only person with knowledge in the subject to help me, thank you, my friend.

I write down on a paper the actual estimate of how many years of life my mdisc verbatim dvd and my dvd-r verbatim azo in my storage conditions (a few days of rain 90% RH 29 ° C in 6 months of the year and in the other 6 months of the year year the climate is dry and warm 50-64% RH 30-36ºC) and with this storage I met the approximate expectation but I did not know of the existence of datarius drives that masked the tests in common drives