Toshiba M-785 rare thrifting find?

[phantomaniac]

I have been thrifting every week for a few months now. I started going to acquire parts for a retro gaming PC, but continued after finishing the build as I kept finding interesting vintage electronics at this one particular place. Today I found a Toshiba M-785, of which there is not much info online but according to this post is the latest and greatest VCR Toshiba ever made, and is extremely rare in the US due to poor sales: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/bes...#post-16261747

It works perfectly as far as I can tell. No TBC but it has extremely good DNR, and I can attest that it has a shockingly clean composite signal. It definitely renders my DMR-ES15 redundant.

If anyone wants capture samples let me know, and perhaps if LS himself is interested in testing it out I'd be willing to lend it for a technical analysis from a true pro.

Here's hoping in another 6 months of thrifting I'll find an external TBC

[latreche34]

No, it is not the best VCR, It is as basic as the bottom of the barrel RCA's, Basic VHS with no TBC, no S-Video, It's a good tool for viewing and rewinding the tapes if one has a high end machine. The DNR option might look good for some but most prefer no DNR during capturing tapes.

[Hushpower]

I also made a rare find last week on Farcebook Marketplace: a Sanyo DX625 and a Panny EZ48, both brand new, still in their sealed boxes; $140 US for both! Good S-Video picture from the Sanyo; I can't bring myself to open the EZ48!

[phantomaniac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

No, it is not the best VCR, It is as basic as the bottom of the barrel RCA's, Basic VHS with no TBC, no S-Video, It's a good tool for viewing and rewinding the tapes if one has a high end machine. The DNR option might look good for some but most prefer no DNR during capturing tapes.

Well....that is unfortunate. Guess I'm still on the hunt for a JVC/Panasonic S-VHS then.

Mods, feel free to close/delete this thread lol.

[hodgey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

It is as basic as the bottom of the barrel RCA's.

I wouldn't call it "the best vcr" or something like that, but it's a bit more advanced than the most basic rca. The most interesting bit about these Toshiba models is that they had a flying head amplifier that's part of the drum assembly. Only other vcrs I know that had something similar are big bertha professional vcrs from e.g JVC, though JVCs version was probably more advanced. What impact it has in practice though i don't know.

The DNR is probably much nicer than the basic analog NR in most vcr, but it's still 90's technology so it's going to have some limits compared to post-capture noise reduction. Toshiba's DNR and TBC ICs were actually used in some of the later Panasonic SVHS decks though so I guess they have some merit. I don't see it negating the need for something with TBC like the ES15 though, unless they actually used a chip that had both TBC and DNR in there without mentioning it.

[hodgey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hushpower

I also made a rare find last week on Farcebook Marketplace: a Sanyo DX625 and a Panny EZ48, both brand new, still in their sealed boxes; $140 US for both! Good S-Video picture from the Sanyo; I can't bring myself to open the EZ48!

Humm, I have a Daewoo which is essentially the same as that Sanyo and the video output (which goes through the internal digitizer, no way to get raw output) is like as wiggly as a raw capture from a normal vcr with my VC500 capture card. Way worse than my LG recorder combo which is at least somewhat acceptable on stable commercial or off-air tapes.

[latreche34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

The most interesting bit about these Toshiba models is that they had a flying head amplifier that's part of the drum assembly. Only other vcrs I know that had something similar are big bertha professional vcrs from e.g JVC, though JVCs version was probably more advanced. What impact it has in practice though i don't know.

Well, flying erase head has no effect on capturing, While maybe a good VCR for recording from its internal tuner back in its time, capturing however requires a different set of VCR skills.

[lordsmurf]

Is it common to see this deck? No.
But is it common to see any particular deck? Also no.

The M-785 was one of falsely-claimed "6-head" VCRs of the late 90s. Almost all VCRs of that time had 6 heads (4 video + 2 audio), but only Toshiba was "clever" (deceitful) enough to claim it. Even I was initially fooled by the BS.

To say "latest and greatest" in reference to Toshiba isn't impressive. They were all lower-end consumer decks. About 15-20 years ago, I also regarded it as one of the better consumer decks -- but not sure I still would. I was a bit easier to please (too forgiving), a bit more knee-jerk in assessments (less diligent).

At AVS, I like CitiBear, but he has said some outright wrong things. In the linked post alone, he says nonsense about image softening ("TBC soften") and line TBCs ("only for flag waving"). He also claims the decks weren't available, but these were sold new at Circuit City, Best Buy, and some others like Conn's. I remember seeing them on the shelf next to the 2nd pair JVC HR-S3800s that I bought at Circuit City (and I may even still have that 3800 receipt somewhere!). I was actually tempted to get a Toshiba as well, but only had $500 budgeted (2x JVCs). Again, late 90s.

If you want to send it, I'll look at it, PM me.

But I vaguely remember these decks having two issues:
(1) something catastrophic, which is why you see almost none of these used
(2) color bleeding, chroma offset, on either playback or recording (or both?)

I forget who, but somebody here found a DataVideo TBC-1000 at a junk shop for about $10, maybe 5 years ago. So it happens.

[hodgey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

Well, flying erase head has no effect on capturing, While maybe a good VCR for recording from its internal tuner back in its time, capturing however requires a different set of VCR skills.

It's a flying amplifier, i.e there is a head amplifier amplifying the signal from the heads on the drum itself, which would impact playback (though how much idk), not the same as a flying erase head.

Interesting that they did note it as the "latest and greatest" toshiba, given that they had the W804 and W808 SVHS models that came out after this one.

The Panasonic NV-HS870 I got uses a Toshiba 3D DNR chip which could the same or a successor of what was used in toshiba's own vcrs, it's okay, but it's not some miracle thing, more akin to a milder variant of the DNR in the JVCs with TBC/DNR on (but without the TBCing).

[Hushpower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudgey

Humm, I have a Daewoo which is essentially the same as that Sanyo and the video output (which goes through the internal digitizer, no way to get raw output) is like as wiggly as a raw capture from a normal vcr with my VC500 capture card. Way worse than my LG recorder combo which is at least somewhat acceptable on stable commercial or off-air tapes.

Read more: Toshiba M-785 rare thrifting find?

Solid as a rock here, Hodgey, with my GV-USB2. The picture is better than my (probably well-worn) LG RC 299 combo.

[phantomaniac]

I've done some more extensive testing and its great at playing back good quality tapes, but worse than other VCRs at playing back bad quality tapes. In particular it tracks worse than an older Toshiba M-65 I have and goes to blue screen on really bad video errors. As the experienced folk here guessed, playback of disparate quality tapes is not its strength. Guess I learned my lesson about believing decade old internet fluff.

[lordsmurf]

Ah, yes ... memories un-fuzzying. Blue screen. Panasonic VHS decks have this as well, and are infamous for it. Very crappy units. These expected ONLY perfect SP mode retail releases, not homemade recordings.