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  #1  
02-21-2017, 09:45 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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As you may (or may not) know, I've always like to test new hardware. Not "new" new, but rather something new to me -- something I've not yet used. I've done hardware testing for 20+ years, and it's the primary way that I've been able to create lists of good hardware to use.

These days, most hardware you see on eBay is
- broken junk
- overly expensive (example: $500+ for Panasonic AG-1980P WITHOUT caps repair)
- unknown and unpopular, therefore affordable

^ This last one is I what like to test. NJRoadfan and juhok have done it as well, in recent years. Sometimes excellent hardware slipped by us in years past. Due to health, I'd gotten away from it in 2012-2016. But re-testing and selling off my old gear has sparked interest in it again in 2017.

You need to be aware of a big scam on eBay!

The listing will promise the item is "tested" and "fully functioning". This is different than simply being tested to "power on" (which usually means broken). The person may even state (like a used car) a 10-point inspection of basic/essential functionality.

But when it arrives, it does not work.

The fraudulent scammer seller claims "UPS/USPS/Fedex must have dropped it". Most people would buy this flimsy excuse, because they don't know any better. But I do. The damage is NOT caused by mere dropping, and it's obvious that it's not worked in a very long time.

The seller then insists it MUST be given to the shipper, so he can claim insurance, and then you'll be refunded.

(And if, like me, you don't necessarily have stuff sent to the place where you are every day, you have to go out of your way to be there for UPS to show up and retrieve it at the place it was delivered. What a waste of my time!)

So the SOB seller basically wastes your time to make money on his broken crap.

If you want to buy hardware, that actually functions, you really need to stick to reputable sources.

And eBay is NOT a reputable source for video hardware!!!


- At the moment, I have a few items available, but my closet will eventually be empty.
- Several of our members sell extra hardware in the marketplace forum.
- And of course, you have excellent stores like TGrant Photo, which often stock rebuilt VCRs/TBCs/etc.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
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  #2  
02-22-2017, 03:51 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Ditto. Been there, done that.
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  #3  
02-22-2017, 08:17 AM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Part of the problem is due to ebay's buyer protection policy. A seller can't sell anything "as-is, no returns" unless it is specifically listed as "untested" and/or "broken". If its tested and shown as working, the seller is required to comply with ebay regulations and allow returns/refunds. Naturally listings that show a working product will sell for more, vs. untested stuff, so its a bit of a catch-22.

Its a really dicey policy for folks dealing with vintage electronics. Older computers and A/V equipment are complex stuff and buyers want to know what does/doesn't work (detailed test results disclose how expensive it is to fix). ebay's policies basically makes it impossible to entirely disclose this information without risking some money/time/hassle with returns. Its also why I don't generally sell on ebay.

As for the overly expensive stuff. Some of it "sells" for ridiculously high prices for no apparent reason, but I've long suspected that there is a TON of straw man/shill bidding going on to inflate/distort the market. Some people use ebay "sold" listings as a guide to an item's value. This is now easily manipulated as anyone can post an auction and have someone else they know anonymously bid/buy it. This lack of transparency is thanks to ebay's "new" (started a few years ago) hiding the user ids of bidders/buyers of items.
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  #4  
02-22-2017, 01:38 PM
bever bever is offline
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In the 70's a customer brought an RCA XL 100 portable TV into our TV shop. it was dead. He had pulled it out angrily from another tv repair shop up the street which had kept it for several weeks with out fixing it.

The modular design of that unit lent itself to replacing modules as a troubleshooting aid.We happened to have a pretty complete stock of circuit cards.

Slowly over a period of several hours as I had time during the day I brought the television back to life during which I found about 10 bad circuit cards. the last thing I brought to life was the sound. It was likely that the previous shop had for whatever reason taken all their dud cards and switched out with the customer. I will never know for sure.

I had a diplomatic job ahead of me. I called the customer. I told him he had ten bad cards. not worth fixing. I told him the cards had not likely all failed at the same time but let him make his own conclusion about where the bad cards were introduced. I dont think it was a lightening strike. I couldn't prove anything and knew nothing 100 percent. At that time our shop offered a free estimate on repairs.I know now a better business model is to charge a minimum for estimate. The customer couldn't know who screwed him over. Was it our shop or the previous shop. He was not happy.

I put his set back together and he hauled it away not working.

I guess I might be a sucker that will never learn or am an eternal optimist.

Just Bought two auctions (different vendor) shipped in transit for Not tested DPS ES-2200T and Sold as-is Leitch DPS-235 powers up. they have (2) TBC and (1) TBC. I can tell they are TBC IV only due to the pictures show SVID in and out. Cant tell yet if they are Plus with comb filter or not or yet how to tell if they are plus cards.

This could be a pig in a poke where someone has methodically concentrated all bad parts in each or one unit or just not viable to test equipment being surplused. They are cheap. for me it is a chance to play around with chroma shift and proc amps. I will learn enough from this to pay for them so for me its acceptale risk.

Got a lot of infor from here Putting the DPS/Leitch DPS-235 TBC to the test
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  #5  
02-22-2017, 03:14 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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The DPS ES-2200 racks are sold as a bare chassis, so its entirely possible TBC IV cards landed up in them. The DPS-235s shipped with TBC IV+ cards from the factory, all three units that I purchased in the past only had IV+ cards in them. The only difference between the regular and "plus" cards is the daughter card that adds a comb filter and YCbCr output.
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The following users thank NJRoadfan for this useful post: bever (02-23-2017)
  #6  
02-23-2017, 10:49 AM
bever bever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
The DPS ES-2200 racks are sold as a bare chassis, so its entirely possible TBC IV cards landed up in them. The DPS-235s shipped with TBC IV+ cards from the factory, all three units that I purchased in the past only had IV+ cards in them. The only difference between the regular and "plus" cards is the daughter card that adds a comb filter and YCbCr output.
I can look for the daughter cards when I receive the units. A few months ago I upgraded to an JVC HR-S2901U SVHS player. Not limited to composite video VHS players so I can at least take advantage of the SVID in and out.
The S2901U does not show TBC in the menu ( I think no TBC) but has some menu options not available on my composite only VHS machines.
Would love to have the actual schematic/wiring diagrams for these controllers ( ES-2200) and the diagrams for the TBC/scope cards but not seeing them anywhere. More later.
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  #7  
05-26-2017, 12:20 PM
bever bever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bever
Just Bought two auctions (different vendor) shipped in transit for Not tested DPS ES-2200T and Sold as-is Leitch DPS-235 powers up. they have (2) TBC and (1) TBC. I can tell they are TBC IV only due to the pictures show SVID in and out. Cant tell yet if they are Plus with comb filter or not or yet how to tell if they are plus cards.
I recieved both of these units a while back. The first one to arrive, the Leitch has noticibly bent BNC connectors,the ones that input/output composite video and the third one for Genlock.

I disassembled the unit to investigate. Removing the TBC IV card from the case requires first unpluging the "daughter" card Yes this This TBC IV had the daughter card option). Once I had the main card out I could see the legs of the BNC connector had migrated through the holes in the circuit board and the connector itself nor the board was damaged. Not sure how this could happen without breaking the board or the connector. Maybe hot circuit board at one time. Not easy to rework this connector as it is soldered on both sides of board and has a shield over each BNC so I decided to try it as is. I reassembled everything and tried it on S-VID and later on composite video and as far as I can tell It does its job (consider that I dont have the experience of using a Datavideo or other mainstream TBC). It is used as is.

tbc IV side.jpg

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Last week on a separate capture system ( Radeon X1800 with Virtualdub). I hooked up the second unit, the DPS ES-2200T and just tried it out without looking inside. It actually has two of the TBC IV cards. It works exactly like the Leitch. It defaults to TBC 1 when turned on.

Most of the time I set all the adjustments video, black, chroma, hue to the middle range on these units, There have been a few times where I used the video and black levels to make a dark scene from video that was shot indoors watchable. It does defeat macrovision. cures what I call tearing and helps the image recover more quickly when a buggered up spot on the tape runs across the flying heads. There is a fair range on the controls but the chroma control but will not shut the color completely off. Reason I mention that is because I tried to turn the color off to be able to set the white balance using the red and blue balance controls.

Many of the features I dont use for example freeze contrtols, film mode, genlock , H-timing or even remote control operation but who knows maybe someday.


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  #8  
05-26-2017, 02:13 PM
JoRodd JoRodd is offline
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Count me as one of the lucky ones.

I bought a Panasonic AG-1980 on eBay for approximately $300 a little over a year ago (The seller was '123wonbid'). The seller said that the caps were replaced. He had an excellent rating (not totally reliable, I know) and a 14-day guarantee.

Once received, I tested it right away and it worked well.

I sent it to Tom Grant a few months ago and, for $90 plus shipping, he cleaned and evaluated my VCR.

He said that it was in good playing condition and that it still had a good amount of hours left before needing anything major. The heads were slightly worn but not in need of replacement yet. Also, the capacitors were fine and the TBC worked as well.

He cleaned the heads, lubricated and fully aligned the machine.

So, I guess I lucked out and bought a solid VCR.
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  #9  
06-03-2017, 05:00 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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A new eBay low for me: seller supposedly unable to test a freaking DVD player.

In my saved searches, a listing for a Panasonic DVD recorder with HDMI showed up today. Described as tested to power up only.

I can understand not testing recording functionality if you've never used a DVD recorder in your life. Maybe I could even accept someone claiming they can't/won't test DVD playback for some reason. But they can't grab an HDMI or even $1 composite cable and plug it into a computer monitor made in the last 10 years or a TV??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super lazy or known-broken sold 'As-Is'
As far as testing this item goes I have not hooked it up to a TV. I only plugged it in to see of it powered on. It takes a minute to heat up, but turns on and opens up with no problem. This was not originally my item I've never used it and when I got it it only came with the power cord which is how it will be shipped out. It doesn't look like its had much use, but I'm not sure. I don't know much about it just what it is so this item comes as is. Shipped in pictured condition. I only ship within the US.
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  #10  
06-03-2017, 11:06 AM
VideoTechMan VideoTechMan is offline
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Yeah that seller is pretty lazy. Doesn't take that much effort to make even a composite connection to see if it worked. I could understand if he had a broadcast deck like the Panasonic AG-DS840 in which a seller like that wouldn't know what to do with anyway.
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  #11  
06-03-2017, 11:32 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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The problem with those listings is 100% due to ebay policy. If a device is NOT listed in the "AS-IS" category, it is covered by their buyer protection system and thus you must accept all returns for "item not as stated" claims, refund the purchase price, and pay return shipping. Sellers now have no incentive to test even for partial functionality because they don't want returns, period. To put it simple, ebay won't allow you to sell a tested but semi-functional item as-is, no returns. You as a seller have no protection. The buyer can initiate a refund, even if they are complaining about the broken part of the item you clearly disclosed as non-working on the listing.
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  #12  
06-04-2017, 03:34 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
If a device is NOT listed in the "AS-IS" category, it is covered by their buyer protection system and thus you must accept all returns for "item not as stated" claims, refund the purchase price, and pay return shipping.
I'm aware of this, but this was actually listed under Used. When I said "as-is" I was quoting the seller's writeup, not referencing the category. It was set to No Returns Accepted, but as you say, that doesn't make a difference.
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  #13  
06-04-2017, 07:57 AM
VideoTechMan VideoTechMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
The problem with those listings is 100% due to ebay policy. If a device is NOT listed in the "AS-IS" category, it is covered by their buyer protection system and thus you must accept all returns for "item not as stated" claims, refund the purchase price, and pay return shipping. Sellers now have no incentive to test even for partial functionality because they don't want returns, period. To put it simple, ebay won't allow you to sell a tested but semi-functional item as-is, no returns. You as a seller have no protection. The buyer can initiate a refund, even if they are complaining about the broken part of the item you clearly disclosed as non-working on the listing.
That's why I no longer sell on eBay, they are basically anti-seller.
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  #14  
06-30-2017, 10:43 PM
Dude111 Dude111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf
These days, most hardware you see on eBay is
- broken junk
- overly expensive (example: $500+ for Panasonic AG-1980P WITHOUT caps repair)
- unknown and unpopular, therefore affordable
And you also find people who do not know what they are selling!


I recently went looking for another VCR like the one I have (Same exact model) and the guy selling it said it was "HIFI STEREO" which that unit (The same one I have) IS LINEAR MONO!! (I dunno if they actually didnt know or were trying to make a sale as most ppl want HIFI STEREO)
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  #15  
07-01-2017, 12:41 AM
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deter deter is offline
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As a buyer I lost a case, not only didn't the unit power up, but it was smashed the loading bay and than the frame was bent. He didn't even send a power cord.

Was so pissed gave the guy bad feedback, than ebay removed it. I even posted pictures of the smashed up unit.

My comments:
Arrived damaged
The frame on this unit was busted. The unit doesn t have a front wheel, and came with no power cord. The front panel is smashed in. The unit can not be repaired due to the physical damage and internal damage with in the unit. The power supply and video card with in are messed up. Requesting a full refund, not happy.

His Reply:
The item is not damaged. The condition of the item in your photos matches the photos and description in the original listing of the item you purchased. I've reattached the photos and included the listing copy for reference. The claims you've made are fraudulent. You've made a serious violation of ebay's rules. If you've done this in error, I suggest you remove your return request immediately. If you continue moving forward with this return request based upon your fraudulent claims, you will get nothing and I will strongly recommend that you are suspended or banned permanently from using this website. I will not tolerate criminal and abusive activity. Do not contact me again for any reason.

My Comments:
This is by far the worst I've ever been spoken too and threaten by a seller on Ebay. You received bad feedback from us, cause of this letter and your nasty threats. You sold a piece of junk that is destroyed and does not power up or even work. It is complete trash. If we wanted trash we would have gone to the junk yard. Instead wasted $100 + on something that is beyond repair. You refused to help, return or anything. Just nasty threats......

Ebay' s Comments:
Recently, you opened an eBay Buyer Protection case - Non-functioning. We also received the feedback you left for the transaction, but it's been removed from the seller's feedback profile because of a recent decision on the eBay Buyer Protection case.

So I went through paypal after I lost and he accepted the return, (funny) but I had to send the item back, was not going to pay $50 to ship it. This was after about 3 weeks, and I'd already turned the unit in to salvage parts. Never returned it. Honestly it was smashed up pretty good...As a complete unit, it would never work....
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  #16  
07-01-2017, 12:58 AM
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deter deter is offline
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Not really complaining cause I've made out like a bandit on Ebay, cause the people sometimes have no idea what they are selling.

Got an MV5 for $5, cause the VCR part was broken, that unit worked for like 5 years recording thousands of hours of material.

Got a JVC 9911 for $20, cause the guy tested it on his PC, and saw the VHS over scan, thought the unit was broken, it was not the unit was mint and never really used.

Plus I can fix stuff, so broken down gear is not really a problem, but when it is smashed and has a bent frame, missing parts, yea that is problem......

AG UNITS:
The guy writing above with the AG 1980 unit, I've never seen one unit that didn't need repairs. Maybe you were lucky. One of the members of this site shipped me an AG 1970 direct from Ebay. It was a nice unit, it played ok, but once I went in to the machine found lots of problems. The filters in the power supply were messed up. Some lose parts which needed to be soildered. Caps needed to be replaced and the Y circuit needed to be replaced. That is a good unit.

Just looking at it during my 1st testing, the picture was darker than normal, than you would get random snowflake streaks in the picture. Knew it needed work. You really need a trained eye when it comes to these AG units.

I sold msgohan an AG1980 unit, granted he got an F3 or F4 error which is just a dirty sensor, but that machine has a great picture, maybe he can do some samples, it is about as good as you will find in an AG 1980 unit.

You have two different models in the AG 1980, they are the same on the outside but the insides are different. The unit I sold msgohan is the better model, they are hard to find, it is like 1 out of 10 AG Units are done with this type of boards.

Last edited by deter; 07-01-2017 at 01:19 AM.
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  #17  
07-01-2017, 10:48 AM
Dude111 Dude111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deter
As a buyer I lost a case, not only didn't the unit power up, but it was smashed the loading bay and than the frame was bent. He didn't even send a power cord.

Was so pissed gave the guy bad feedback, than ebay removed it. I even posted pictures of the smashed up unit.
Im so sorry Deter that you had a bad experience........

Its sad when the sellers wont refund....
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  #18  
07-01-2017, 08:43 PM
juhok juhok is offline
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Interesting thread. As mentioned by lordsmurf I've bought my share of duds. Hindsight 20/20. Bought mostly from eBay.de. Something like 30-50% were not working as described. Percentage would be even higher if not for some reliable sellers like charly_rackslider (at the time, few years ago). Had some luck with "normal" people too. Then there were the resellers who got the "good stuff" with vague terms just like mentioned earlier. I feel they even intentionally use bad packaging so the courier can be blamed. Between Germany and Finland there was no insurance and in every such case I lost money.

Nowdays my focus has shifted and I'm in the process of becoming a seller rather than buyer.
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  #19  
08-17-2017, 01:37 PM
jnielsen jnielsen is offline
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I have bought over maybe a year on ebay three Panasonic NV-HS1000 ( PAL, Similar to AG-1980 NTSC)

The two first was defect even as they on ebay not was classified as "defect" just as "used". One was ejecting the tape immediately (seems like a small error but it is not). The other one could the seller not test because "he had no VHS tape" it was of course also defect. A professional repair shop could not even make one working unit from the two.

Because of recommendations here on the forum I was still eager to buy one. When buying the last one I was extra cautious. It was "tested and working" however on arrival it was badly packaged (basically just laying around in a cardboard box with no protection), small parts was broken off the front. It powered on and worked but only for less than one minute, then it just powered off.
I took immediately photos of the faulty packaging and a small video of the defect of the video and complained immediately. I could not reach an agreement with the seller even when suggesting only partial refund, but I got my money back through the ebay buyer protection.

My conclusion is that these NV-HS1000 units are maybe too old, too worn out, or maybe the bad units just circulate on ebay. They are aften on ebay described as "last time I tested it, it worked fine" ( meaning "but not now" ). I have later bought two NV-960 which are newer and works fine.
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