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  #1  
06-04-2019, 03:01 PM
rustynutt rustynutt is offline
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Over the years, digitafaq has expanded so much with technology.
Have a repeat of an age old VCR RGB question.
Where's the appropriate place to post?
Thanks!
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  #2  
06-04-2019, 04:33 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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The general discussion forum would seem the best area, although VCR's don't play RGB.
VHS, SVHS and similar analog tape formats store and play video as YPbPr waveforms, not as pixels. The nearest equivalent in digital video is YUY2.

Is your question just general information, or does it apply specifically to capture, workflow, final editing, etc.?
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  #3  
06-04-2019, 06:02 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Depends on use.

- just capture, CAPTURE
- to discuss how it fits into workflow, WORKFLOW
- to discuss filtering, RESTORE
- for repair, REPAIR
- or if not sure, GENERAL, and we'll move it (but it's best to just post it where it belongs)

You've been gone a few years.

The forum is about to have some massive changes. Lots of tinkering on the dev server lately, testing features, before rolling them out live here.

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  #4  
06-04-2019, 06:40 PM
rustynutt rustynutt is offline
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Posted this under an old thread, so copying it here
I'm not interested in the discussions of quality, ECT, I'll take what I get.

Anyway..... VCR or D-VCR and RGB video at ~15.5hz.
Last I'd searched the forums, the VR-813 was about all I'd seen at the time with RGB output.
DVH-8090,Thomson seems to be a more capable unit overall, abit I don't care about it's digital capabilities, only its ability to output an RGB signal from analog tape.
I can break out from the SCART connector, only need a red, green, blue and ground line. PAL-NTSC doesn't matter.

Am I missing other units? Going rate for one I'm market place is well over €500..
The I/O is an legacy capture card that normally uses an external composite of y/c source, and converts to an RBG signal for input to the capture card. There is no audio capture, no TBC or tick marks to align the video post capture with an audio track. Wouldn't matter, max capture frame rate "nears" PAL @ 320*240, and possible full frame rate in lower capture resolutions. The video is always handled uncompressed, captured to RAM, enough room for about 15k frame count. Like I said above, PAL-NTSC doesn't matter output wise, the machine handles both, but must manage playing of NTSC recorded content. Some specs for the DVH-8090 Thomson show only Euro spec, found a museum site stating NTSC was also available.

More set up info:

Video capture is done on a 1992 Atari Falcon 030 with 16mhz bus and CPU clock. Why, because I can.
I imagine RGB is used on the capture card as it is also used onscreen within the capture window of the application with no additional processing to do so.
The video content captured will be used in animation and 3d raytraced rendering.
They are not wedding videos.
I'm interested only knowing of tape (VHS) machines capable of RGB output.
PAL output is fine, but must read NTSC material. Quasi SVHS or SVHS is desirable but not mandatory

Seems there are only two choices.


I've been here often at least, just hadn't signed in! Still alive!
Another project was completed, but not yet utilized is an ATM AIW and OR setup.
Moved from California to Oregon, still playing catch up!
Thanks, and hats off to ya'lls knowledge

I'll also follow up on an digitalfaq link a user provided in the other thread.
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  #5  
06-05-2019, 08:05 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Some VHS/DVD-Recorder combos support it I think, such as the DMR-ES35V (Only the PAL model I think). May not be entirely period-correct though.

Otherwise it's pretty rare I think. Composite/s-video to RGB conversion would normally be done by the TV, there wasn't much point putting a RGB converter in the VCR. It may be especially rare with NTSC since Scart wasn't common.

One laternative if you can find it may be to get a "period-correct" RGB converter, like a JVC KM-V7EG and use whatever VCR is convenient.
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  #6  
06-05-2019, 11:04 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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I don't understand the desire for RGB.

The signal is YUV, extract it as such, using a recommended VCR. Any RGB VCR output is just being internally converted, and I'd bet software conversion is superior here anyway, or the same. And none of those RGB VCRs are recommended anyway.

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  #7  
06-06-2019, 02:05 PM
rustynutt rustynutt is offline
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Lordsmurf, the capture card itself required RGB input. No other input option.
This is a vintage project/vintage setup.
I do have modern equipment to archive my tapes, this isn't what I was going for here.
Money is not a huge concern ( in as much as that's possible), even at $550, the Thomson looks like the tool I'm after.
The capture card does come with an converter box, YUV to RGB output, does not do a great job at all, probably the same as the vcr's (2) that actually internally convert to RGB. The conversion done within the vcr eliminates yet one more piece of external hardware. The converter box it came with is plagued with sync issues, where connecting a set top with RGB direct to the capture card provides near perfect duplication.

Asking on digitlfaq rather than gaming forums, where users there have devices to convert their retro console RGB output to HDMI, without much interest in actually capturing the game play.

But, sounds like, unless there exist a better YUV to RGB converter than what the two mentioned, those are my options.
My Aiwa MX1000 dual standard was pretty good at providing digital stills from tape for single frame capture, alas it gave up the goat after years of good service.
I scored a Panasonic AG-1980 near New in the box from a church last year for $45. Figure I'm so far ahead in that deal, a little over spending on the RGB VCR wouldn't hurt my vintage collection investment. To preview tapes, use a Sony MF HR BVM-D24 with less than 50 hours, back up monitor from the original Avatar (so the Sony rep said).
In the end, they are all just toys for a beat up old man

On a side note, I have a Sony YR-1000 I've yet to try. It's 220v, and don't have a source yet can to the work room. It will take PAL YUV and convert to RGB. Think it was a device made to get around this entire conversation in Europe, back in the day.
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  #8  
06-06-2019, 05:07 PM
Tester Tester is offline
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As pointed out elsewhere, that Thomson model is a POOR choice for VHS/SVHS: mediocre playback quality overall; on top of that its RGB output ‘transcoder’ tends to overblow the image levels (crushed highlights/whites). And what's potentially worse, every now and then the mecha works up an appetite for chewing tapes.

IMHO, if you must have RGB, you'd be way better off with a good SVHS player and a S-Video→RGB converter.

Last edited by Tester; 06-06-2019 at 05:25 PM. Reason: Completion
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  #9  
06-06-2019, 11:49 PM
rustynutt rustynutt is offline
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Got it!
Thanks all.
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