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  #1  
03-01-2011, 07:43 AM
jonny_221 jonny_221 is offline
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I want to buy a new camera for my summer vacation and was thinking of buying a DSLR. Which one will be a better buy Canon T2i or Canon T3i?
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  #2  
03-03-2011, 11:56 AM
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Before I get too far into the comparison, are you completely convinced that you want a Canon SLR, as opposed to Nikon, or even something from Sony or Pentax? The reason I ask is because Canon lenses tend to be pretty cheaply made, for the consumer-grade non-L series glass. Rebel cameras are very small and plastic SLRs, and really don't last more than about two years -- even under mild use. Nikon non-pro SLR cameras and lenses hold up much better, and quite a bit longer, based on my experience and observations.

Another quick thing that I always have to address is this: Where do you plan to buy it?
Many online consumers make the mistake of finding the cheapest online store, and that's a bad move for cameras (still photography, or video). There are a lot of scams, bait-and-switches and other unsavory stores -- many of which are located in New York and New Jersey, and known for
- upselling items,
- intentionally sending used, incomplete or incorrect cameras,
- charging excess to the credit card without authorization,
- or simply never sending the ordered camera

Generally, you want to order from a known-reliable store, such as Amazon, B&H, Ritz/Wolf, or Adorama. ANd there are more -- I have a list made, and an article written to address this, but it's just not quite online yet. (Next month.)

Amazon has the T2i: http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.ht...reative=390957
And the T3i: http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.ht...reative=390957
for some of the best prices you'll find online or offline. Just an FYI -- who doesn't like to save a few bucks?


Okay, so Canon T2i vs Canon T3i ...

I'll post a follow-up here when I get some spare minutes between projects. Thanks.

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  #3  
03-17-2011, 02:50 PM
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I have to totally disagree with you regarding your comment on the robustness of Canon Digital Rebels. I've been shooting the original 6 megapixel model for over 7 years now in very rough conditions and it has been a rock. Total problems: 1. I had a stuck pixel which I was able to clear. I have gone through 2 batteries, a 3rd should be delivered very soon. It is about to become my backup camera as it no longer meets my resolution needs and it may get converted to an IR-only body, and it's replacement will be a T2i as I can't afford to go up to the pro level yet.

I'm not trying to start a flame war, I just think your statement is overly broad. I have lots of friends who shoot Digital Rebels and all have been shooting the same body for over 5 years. And I have friends who have had reliability problems and repair needs with Nikons, so everyone's experience is going to differ.

I shoot Eos for personal preference, both film and digital. I could have gone Nikon when I started shooting over 30 years ago, but my preferences just seem better met with Canon. I did shoot a wedding a few years ago with a borrowed Nikon DSLR, and I was impressed. But I still prefer my Canons.

Needs must dictate.

Totally agree on being careful buying online and buying from a reputable vendor. A friend of mine had great joy baiting obvious scam artists while buying a Canon 5D.
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  #4  
03-20-2011, 12:32 AM
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Note: My original comparison post was one of the Site Staff posts made the day we did some upgrades, and I appear to have not restored it with all the others. No matter, it's easy enough to re-create...


On the topic of T2i vs T3i ...

The Canon Rebel T2i = Canon Rebel EOS 550D
The Canon Rebel T3i = Canon Rebel EOS 600D

Aside from very negligible changes in features --- Example: worthless "digital zoom" function in T3i, or the pop-out LCD monitor --- it's basically the same camera. Same sensor, same resolution, same fps, etc etc. The only important differences appear to be the age and price. The T3i is newer, and it costs about 20-25% more.


Philosophy of why the Canon T3i even exists...

As I've said in the past, Nikon is a optics/glass company that makes a limited-model range of cameras. They have 1-2 good bodies per shooting style/need, and a huge selection of lenses, as well as accessories for most photography situations (underwater, studios, criminology, photojournalism, etc). Nikkor glass is also what powers optics in telescopes, microscopes, industrial tools, etc.

Sony/Minolta and Pentax have historically been very similar in their approach to available cameras.

Canon, in contrast, is an electronics company that sells anything they can sell to consumers and pros alike, such as printers, copying machines, and low-cost cheap cameras. And when it comes to DSLRs, that often means selling 2-3+ bodies that are more or less identical in features. It leads to the false idea that "Canon has more choices" and it mostly just fills up a photo counter at the local shop. It's the same mentality used by Panasonic for video gear. Quantity is their answer to branding name recognition.

As far as I'm concerned, Canon preys upon consumers that don't really understand what's quality and what's not -- or what's true and what's myth (i.e., marketing with megapixels). The T3i is a great example of Canon wanting to sell you something that you don't really need -- like pop-out LCD preview screens or in-camera Photoshop-like editing functions (which are better done in Photoshop, on a computer).

Releasing a T3i also gives them the somewhat dubious right to claim that they've released a "new camera" which has led to the idea that Canon is always making the most advanced gear. If anything, a T3i proves Canon has done very little in the past year, in the way of consumer SLRs.

IMPORTANT: Understand that I say all of this as a realist. My favorite manual film camera is a Canon, and although my primary DSLR body is a Nikon, I still shoot quite a bit with Canon digital bodies. So don't get some idea that I'm anti-Canon. I'm not. My goal here is to help others understand what Canon's "game" is. Don't be taken in by their marketing strategies.


Conclusion on T2i vs T3i ...

Get the T2i.
Don't waste your time or funds on a T3i. There's nothing there for you.

550D from Amazon.com in North America: http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.ht...reative=390957
T2i from Amazon.co.uk in Europe: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/redirect....creative=19450

Amazon is a safe merchant, authorized Canon dealers, and will be the best prices almost all of the time.

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  #5  
03-20-2011, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
I'm not trying to start a flame war, I just think your statement is overly broad.
Healthy debate and discussions is encouraged.

In some ways, it is relieving to hear of others who have had good experiences with Rebel longevity. However, as is my nature, I'm still dubious. I'd like to hear more about the type of use, the regularity, etc. Which leads me into the next quote...

Quote:
I have lots of friends who shoot Digital Rebels and all have been shooting the same body for over 5 years. And I have friends who have had reliability problems and repair needs with Nikons, so everyone's experience is going to differ.
I'd like to know more about the users and nature of their use.
- Under what conditions were the cameras used? Indoor vs outdoor, and when outdoors, what weather?
- What was the photographic experience of the users? Did they know how to carefully use a camera, and to not twist this or push that too hard?
- How often were cameras used?
- How many lenses? How often were lenses changed? Which lenses?
- How were the final photos used? Stuck in an albums, or something that was put to greater scrutiny either by buyers or editors?

For example, a camera that's traveled cross-country in car trunk, as used by a professional photographer, will see much different use than the camera that's stored in a bag in a closet by the mommy or daddy that only pulls it out for birthdays. Or even the camera that's used in the rain, has lenses changed often, etc -- much different use and wear patterns.

And therein lies the issue. Under even moderate wear, the Rebel lines always seem to break much earlier than I find to be acceptable -- within 1-3 years. And as such, I can't ethically suggest others use something that I've observed to break down on its own, under what would otherwise be acceptable conditions (non-issues) with bodies from other makers. That includes not only Nikon, but Pentax and some others.

My earliest experience with the Rebel line of cameras goes back to about 1997 or so. I forget the exact year, although I do remember the first shoot. (And it was a fun one! We did some trick photography in a park.) That specific camera was dead and buried before 2000 hit.

Quote:
I shoot Eos for personal preference, both film and digital. I could have gone Nikon when I started shooting over 30 years ago, but my preferences just seem better met with Canon. I did shoot a wedding a few years ago with a borrowed Nikon DSLR, and I was impressed. But I still prefer my Canons.
Nothing beats a Canon AE-1 for manual film cameras. I'd step on a Nikon to have one. (Or rather, another one.) But I think Canon has strayed a bit from those earlier years, and made a number of marketing-driven compromises to their products -- such as overuse of plastics, and trying to bamboozle buyers with technical jibber-jabber.

Quote:
Totally agree on being careful buying online and buying from a reputable vendor. A friend of mine had great joy baiting obvious scam artists while buying a Canon 5D.
So he was purposely messing with the NY scammers? If so, that's hilarious. They deserve to have their time wasted, given how much time they waste of the buyers that fell prey to the tactics and shenanigans.


Good discussion.

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  #6  
03-22-2011, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
I'd like to know more about the users and nature of their use.
- Under what conditions were the cameras used? Indoor vs outdoor, and when outdoors, what weather?
- What was the photographic experience of the users? Did they know how to carefully use a camera, and to not twist this or push that too hard?
- How often were cameras used?
- How many lenses? How often were lenses changed? Which lenses?
- How were the final photos used? Stuck in an albums, or something that was put to greater scrutiny either by buyers or editors?
I absolutely love good, rational discussion. When I was working at the local university a few years ago we had fantastic extended discussions about religion between a guy with a philosophy degree, a former preacher who's a retired cop and now a security guard, and a couple of other well educated nobs. Great discussions, never got heated.

I just bought a T2i last week but I'll be talking about my experience with my original 6 megapixel Rebel.

Conditions: Me, my camera takes a bit of a beating. It travels in a backpack, not in a case, and I live in the mountains of New Mexico and have spent a lot of time at White Sands Nat'l Monument, definitely a rough area. I've been told my imager chip has a scratch, but I haven't noticed it in my pix. Weather would mostly be hot and a variety of humidity conditions. I've taken it out in the snow occasionally. I went through a dry spell a couple of years ago when I changed jobs and moved, but I'm shooting a lot now. I'd estimate I've taken 9-10,000 images in the 6+ years that I've had it, a broad mix of jpegs (always large/fine) and raws. I really like my T2i doing raw+jpeg! I doubt that I'll ever shoot anything but. I can't begin to estimate how many air and car miles my gear has traveled: NM to east cost/DC twice, an insane amount of trips between NM and AZ (1000 miles per trip) and throughout NM, and always in my backpack semi-loose. My Rebel definitely shows the cosmetic wear.

Experience: I've been shooting since '77. I've had one national magazine cover and several interiors, also lots of weddings. I don't shoot professional, just to please myself. I've shot 35mm, 6x6, 6x7, and 4x5. My first camera was a Yashicamat 124G, which I will always and forever (with no redundancy) proclaim it as to be the PERFECT camera for learning serious photography! (in my ever so humble opinion) I've never dropped a camera or lens, though I fell on one once: slipped on a slick rock at Montezuma's Well back in the 80's. Crushed the zoom helicoid on a sweet Vivitar Series 1 24-48 zoom. I definitely know the proper amount of force to be used on cameras. I've done my own processing of B&W, C-41, and E-6, develop & print.

Frequency of Use: variable. Since I am not shooting commercially, I shoot as the muse strikes. If I see something that I want to shoot, I shoot it. My wife is an astronomer and her observatory is managed by a university, so I use spousal benefits to take classes, mainly to have access to a darkroom. I'm re-taking a Photoshop class as my skills have atrophied a bit, which increases my shooting frequency as I prefer to use my own shots for assignments rather than stock pix. One thing that I'm looking forward to using the T2i is the higher ISO available, I'm REALLY looking forward to going back to Carlsbad Caverns!

Lenses: For my digital, I have the kit 18-55, a Vivitar 28-300, a Canon 100/2.0, and a Canon 35-105. I have a few others, but they only work with my Eos film bodies, something about the age of the lenses makes the electronics incompatible. I mainly carry the kit lens and the 28-300, the 100 I use mainly for chess tournaments because of its speed. I change the lens with fair frequency. I wouldn't say with every shot, you know how highly variable a shoot and lens selection can be.

Final Use: Most of my stuff is personal pleasure. I shoot to please myself first, and if it pleases me, it usually gets an A from the teacher. I shot my dad's wood working at www.gotbowls.com, didn't really have adequate lighting equipment. I need to edit and update my Flickr stream. I also had some shots used in an internal magazine for a game store chain, but that was a very long time ago.

____________

Audrey is a strange case because she's epileptic. She had experience, but the epilepsy has pretty much wiped it away. She still has her AE-1 and started shooting with a Digital Rebel probably not long after I got mine. I know she has a Canon 75-300 IS, I don't know if she has any other glass. She has a nice set of Canon flash units. She's done a lot of commercial documentary work for government agencies and also some charity holiday shooting.

Terry is a pilot and an experienced photographer, probably also with 25+ years of experience. He mainly shot Olympus OM-1 with a few lenses, I don't what exactly. He also inherited a 'Blad that he later traded in for some other gear. He's shot pretty much the same variety of formats as I have, he's done his own B&W and I think he's processed his own color. He was a film man until he shot my wedding with his OM-1 and two Digital Rebels (mine and Audrey's, she was my best man), then went out and bought a XTi (IIRC) 5+ years ago. I don't know what he's done professionally, but he made a very impressive book of shots from the Reno Air Races, one that I'd have no problem buying and displaying. He rented a very long lens for that event.

Bobby shoots a 5D with multiple lenses and pretty much exclusively professionally locally. I don't know the variety of lenses he has, I know he has a few. As far as I know, he hasn't had any significant problems with his gear. Largely irrelevant since we're mainly talking Eos Rebel line.

I don't know how much shooting Audrey & Terry do, as far as I know they have had no issues with their gear. We used to live in the same condo complex, now we live in 3 states with about 1300 miles between us. When we're together we swap lenses and gear freely, I also swap gear with Bobby. Audrey & Terry's gear were bought new, mine was used by a friend who shot mainly film in Nikons and needed a digital. He really liked the Rebel, but sold it to get a Nikon Digital. The only issue that I had with mine was one stuck pixel which I was able to clear fairly easily, also I'm on my 3rd battery but batteries die so that doesn't count.

Bobby was the guy scamming the scammers. My fav story was a guy in England who definitely was scamming, he wanted the money sent Western Union, not PayPal, a sure sign. Bobby said “I have a friend on a military base near you, mind if I have him come by and inspect it for me?” Scammer vanished. He got a number of them banned on eBay.

I am not gentle with my equipment, but I try not to abuse it too badly. I expect it to perform, that's why I buy it. I tend to work in hot weather, probably 100f+, though I can also work in pretty cool weather near freezing at the observatory, which also contrasts altitudes as the observatory is at 9200' and White Sands is at around 4100'. I've retired two Eos film bodies from shutter bumper rot, one of which might get repaired as a local repairman offered me his shop and the manual for it. My Canon equipment has been flawless, I have a semi-dead Sigma 24mm that the diaphragm won't stop down, still perfectly usable on my film bodies in manual or aperture priority modes. With the exception of a Rollie SL35ME which was a massive POS and the Vivitar 24-48 Series 1 which had a design flaw that permitted lube to touch and gum up the diaphragm blades, I've had pretty good reliability with my gear.

But my favorite gear? (aside from the MAT124G) Pentax MX. Fantastic body, and I absolutely loved Pentax glass and had 5 or 6 of their lenses. I thought it offered better sharpness and color than Canon or Nikon at that time, and forget about Olympus. But that equipment went away a long time ago. I bought a T2i last week and expect my original Rebel to be semi-retired and will be my backup body. I did buy an extended 2 year warranty for an additional $50, I rarely buy such but I think it can be valuable for things that take a fair amount of abuse.

I don't have a lot to say about the T2i as I've only shot a couple dozen images. My overall impression is quite favorable. I love the live preview with the grid and I think the extended ISO range will be very useful to me. But one thing that I absolutely love is the selectable 2-second delay timer, very nice for tripod work. I don't think the 1/4000 top shutter speed will be particularly beneficial as I no longer shoot sports or motion-oriented things like that any more, but you never know. I have had one problem shooting video where it cuts off the recording very quickly, but I haven't spent enough time with the manual to say whether or not this is a bug or a setting issue. I need to pick up a good strap and perhaps another battery while I'm in Phoenix, but that's accessory stuff and not terribly important.

Now I need to look at used glass to see what's available and what the prices are like. I also need to get a copy of Photoshop CS5. I currently have CS3 and the T2i produces CR2 format raw images which CS3 can't handle. I found an intermediate step via Elements 9: it can read CR2 and save as PSD which can then be edited by CS3. Whee!
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03-22-2011, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
I'd estimate I've taken 9-10,000 images in the 6+ years that I've had it
Is that a count of shutter actuations, meaning that number includes all the bad shots you deleted?
Or did you keep 10,000 images, and then delete many 10's of thousands more?

Just curious.

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03-22-2011, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by admin View Post
Is that a count of shutter actuations, meaning that number includes all the bad shots you deleted?
Or did you keep 10,000 images, and then delete many 10's of thousands more?

Just curious.
Probably actuations. Though I should, I don't delete a lot of images even though they're bad.
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