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  #1  
07-10-2010, 11:52 PM
Sossity Sossity is offline
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This seemed like the closest place to ask this, I have asked on various places online & have never received a clear answer, when I got an answer.

1). I have quite a collection of concert ticket stubs, concert fliers & post cards. What resolution should I scan these at? what color space? sRGB or Adobe RGB? & what bit depth? 24 or 48?

I will be using them in slide shows on DVDs to watch on a computer & TV, & possibly print as well.


2). I am also in the process of scanning Album art, the leaflets/covers that come in the jewel cases of my commercial audio CD's. What resolution? sRGB or Adobe RGB? & 24 or 48 bit depth?

I may print these as well.

I have 2 scanners; one a separate one, an Epson perfection 4490 photo & a built in scanner in my HP all in one inkjet printer. would the HP one work? or do I need the Epson?

I guess it comes down to what the companies use when the make CD album art & ticket stubs.

These projects of scanning will be quite an undertaking, so It would be nice to get it right to start, I dont want to go back again. Thanks for any help.
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  #2  
07-11-2010, 05:18 AM
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This is probably the closest place, yes, given the technology at play here. It is very much in the realm of photography and digital imagining in general.

Before I start, realize I say all of this having experience in the print publishing industry, having served as both a newspaper designer, as well as having created corporate print piece for 3 of the past 5 years. And then I've been an active photojournalist for more than a decade now. My use of scanners is going on 20 years now (not quite, but getting closer). So....

Answer #1

Scan resolution - 300 dpi vs 600 dpi

Pretty much all current model scanners (and even some past ones from recent years) have the ability to scan those documents so finely that it can pick up the flaws of the original printing process. In other words, it can scan the image, plus pick up non-image visual elements!

If this is for archival use -- a file just to keep for whatever backup purposes -- I would make a scan at 600dpi.

However, 600dpi is a huge pain in the butt to work with, as it creates large files that lag on the CPU and RAM. And the output won't necessarily benefit from that size anyway. It's a good archive file, but that's really it. For actual working use, a 300dpi downsized version is what I'd work with. A 300dpi scan is just as good. At 600dpi, you're picking up a lot of print noise, not just image. At 300dpi, you're mostly just getting the image. Depending on the print quality of the scanned ticket, you may have to run some third-party de-noise filters on it (NeatImage), or maybe just run a Photoshop-native despeckle filter.

A lot of flatbed scanners are tuned for 300dpi scanning. All other resolutions tend to look crappy. Many so-called 600dpi flatbed scanners can't actually optically resolve 600dpi worth of details. Anything above 600dpi -- be it 1200dpi, 2400dpi, 4800dpi, 9600dpi -- is generally interpolated (fake!). Only dedicated film/slide scanners tend to truly scan at something as high as 4800-9600dpi, in the pro range. (My pro Nikon Coolscan V, for example, is 4800dpi true optical scanning, as it's equipped with Nikon ED glass optics.)

My advice to you is to use 300dpi.

The only exception would be if your going to significantly enlarge the piece when it's printed. For example, a small ticket stub that is 3 inches across being printed 200% at 6 inches across. For that, I'd definitely go with 600dpi. Note that the TV size does not matter. DVD-Video format can only use a max size of 720x480. Even HD/Blu-ray is limited to 1920x1080 resolution. I don't refer to the television when I mention physical size -- only print.

Colorspace - sRGB vs Adobe RGB


Colorspace is mostly determined by your choice of workflow calibration, from scanner to monitor to printer. I work within the sRGB system. Digital photos off my pro Nikon DSLRs (D3, D200, etc) are all set to sRGB colorspace, as my work is always dual-processed for both web and print use, as well as video use.

The only time I'd shoot AdobeRGB (aRGB) is if I were doing art/landscape photography, with the intention of selling large prints, and using a very exact/controlled print process -- which is never, because I'm a sports photographer! My prints look great in magazines and newsprint, using sRGB. Many of them are shot JPEG, too -- quicker to process if you skip RAW. That's standard in news.

Adobe RGB offers a wider gamut, but your already-processed ticket scans long ago lost whatever gamut that might be. Many would argue that the gamut really only applies to extreme colors anyway, or to large-palette gradients (sunsets/sunrises). For novice users, AdobeRGB is more of a hindrance than anything else. Any incorrect use along the way and you'll end up with a wimpy-colored image with contrast problems. Most monitors are unable to truly display AdobeRGB anyway.

sRGB is also the native calibration for most equipment, especially consumer gear.

sRGB vs AdobeRGB is an old photographer argument. Not quite as old as Nikon vs Canon, but well into the decade category.

Then again, if I want to take my printing seriously, I'll be converting to CMYK anyway, and using Pantone color selections for non-image specs, so most of the RGB arguments become null and void. Printing RGB is mostly for photos and amateurs. All printers use a CMYK print process, so even if you give it an RGB spec, it's going to get converted. Many modern press setups can do this at the point of print, but in years past, we had to set the projects up as CMYK before submission.

That's another reason your scanned tickets don't need high-accuracy wide-gamut scanning -- whatever once may have been there is now long gone.

My advice to you is to use sRGB.

Bit depth - 24 bit vs 48 bit

I almost don't want to get into the full explanation of this one, as it involves a lot of color theory. And beyond that, it doesn't really matter.

When it comes to optical flatbed scanners, especially consumer models (and even lower-end pro models), the specs are cooked. Sure, the scanner can create a file in the 48-bit colorspace, but that actual image data is generally still closer to 24-bit (8 bits per color). The numbers are there to simply help sell more scanners.

Bigger numbers look better to clueless buyers. It's a concept photographer Ken Rockwell refers to as "measurebating". Companies and people love to brag about how many megapixels, DPIs, bit depths, etc, their product has. But most times, neither the seller nor the user seems to truly understand what it means, and how it's important (if it's important). There's an odd disconnect between engineers and marketers at companies, too, where a product is created with certain features, but the marketing departments so excessively embellish the importance that it's a almost a lie.

Just trust that your scanners can't really scan much better than 24 bits, and use it. Those 48-bit files are large, and difficult to work with. Few programs can open 48-bit files, so you'd have issues.

My advice to you is to use 24-bit color depth.

Answer #2

I would say that my advice is general advice for you, and is valid on all items that you wish to scan. The postcards might benefit from 600dpi scans, but it really depends on their quality. It would have to be a high-gloss photograph to benefit from 600dpi. But again, the files may be hard to work with at that resolution. Whether your scanner is good at 600dpi is another issue.

HP scanners suck. I'm just going to leave it at that. While they surely operate as a scanner, the quality is inferior to Microtek and Epson scanners.

I've used that exact Epson scanner, the Epson Perfection 4490, and it was fine. When it comes to scanner advice, I always suggest the current Epson line of scanners. They even surpass the quality of one-time leader Microtek in scanning speed and quality. The Epson Perfection V300 and Epson Perfection V600 (300 with ICE) are my top suggestions.

My advice is to use the Epson.


Judging from your comments in the questions, I think you knew some or most of this, and just need reinforcement. I think you're on the right path.

Good luck!

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  #3  
07-13-2010, 10:34 PM
Sossity Sossity is offline
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should I use .tiff? or .jpg? when scanning these items?

if I scan at 300dpi, use .tiff or .jpg?

if I scan at 600dpi, use .tiff or .jpg?

thanks for your replies so far, it has helped me reinforce what I had a felling about. If I do embark on this scanning, will the bundled epson scan software that came with my scanner be good? & is there a way to do scan more than one cd album cover at a time? I have over 100+ albums, so the more I know exactly what to do the better, & better use of my time.

Should I use any enhancements like sharpening? ICE? what levels or amounts? when I have scanned before, I tried to not use any enhancements so I would have a faithful copy, & do the adjustments in photo shop. I had brightness, contrast, color sat, light dark all set at 0 to be neutral, is this ok?
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07-14-2010, 07:30 AM
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TIFF or JPEG? The images themselves will be scanned into a raw image into the software. There is no JPEG or TIFF until you save the image that very first time. At least, that's how Photoshop works.For archiving, I would opt for TIFF files. Either compressed or uncompressed TIFF are fine. There's really no difference between the two, as it's a lossless compression scheme in use.

However, there's not much you can do with a TIFF. The world has become very anti-TIFF in the past five or so years now (since about 2005). You'll find it's hard to take a TIFF file to a printer or photo lab. While this should not be the case, it is. (To some degree, I blame idiots who work in those establishments -- people who have somehow secured jobs they are wholly unqualified to have.) At any rate, for realistic use, you'll at least need a copy in JPEG format. So, keep a JPEG version in addition to a TIFF, and save it at the maximum compression size allowed by the software. In Photoshop CS3, for example, that would be JPEG Level 12.

Epson software? I don't remember if the Epson came with bundled software, aside from the TWAIN driver interface. Whatever it came with, no, I would not use it. (NOTE: You MUST use the Epson TWAIN drivers. Those are good anyway!) I suggest Photoshop, either the full/expensive version or the consumer Elements version.

Use Photoshop! You can get an excellent deal on Photoshop Elements from Amazon right now! Version 8 is marked down to $82, which is nice. But the real deal is for Version 7, new in box, for only $47 shipped! Forget all that "old version" non-sense, it works great!

Get those deals at http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.ht...reative=390957

Scan more? You can fill the flatbed and scan the whole surface, or box out the areas you want to scan (and scan those areas one at a time, without having to get up and remove/add from the flatbed). I do this for photos. I've been scanning a ton of old images for Facebook lately, doing exactly this. I can fit 3-4 images on there at once.

Enhancements? You bet. ICE, if you have it. My biggest issue in quality is the micro lint, dust, etc. For work scans, I'd take some time to clean the flatbed and print, then clone out whatever I missed in Photoshop. For my quick-and-dirty Facebook scans, I'm just circling bad areas and running the dust-and-scratches Photoshop filter. While it's somewhat destructive, you can't tell after I re-sharpen and then shrink down to that 720 pixels maximum width for the albums. For your project, ICE let's you go fast, but gives you the quality you want/need. This assumes your scanner has ICE, of course -- it's a hardware feature, after all, not a software one.

I sometimes let the Epson software do medium sharpening, color restoration, and de-noise for Fine Art prints (or match it to whatever my scan source really is). There's a preview, so you can judge if quality gets better or worse. It's a one-by-one decision.

"Faithful copy" is overrated. If the original looks aged and crappy, do you really want the new one to look that way too? I don't. It's why the technology exists -- to make it better. Nay, to restore it to what it once was, or maybe even what it should have been to begin with. There's no intrinsic superiority of "unfiltered" media. I was watching an old kinescope transfer of Dragnet last night, from a store-bought DVD, and it was "faithful" to the 55-year-old film. And it looked like crap. There's no reason (no excuse!) why that could not have been filtered and restored first, aside from being cheap and/or lazy. Or having some weird notion that "unfiltered" is better.

Color filters? I generally don't alter the TWAIN Epson color/brightness/contrast filters. I'll do that in Photoshop, mostly because Photoshop seems to handle that much better.

That hit all the points of your questions?

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  #5  
07-19-2010, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
That hit all the points of your questions?
Yes it did for the most part, what level of ICE, de noising, & color restoration do you use? what should I use?
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07-19-2010, 09:51 PM
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ICE is on or off, there's no options.

I do de-grain and noise removal in Photoshop, usually using the NeatImage plug-in.

Sometimes I'll open scanned images, saved as JPEG, in Adobe Bridge (Camera Raw 4), and do "color noise" (chroma noise) reduction. I don't like stray red, blue, or green pixels in shadows. Even the best scanners and optics have scan color noise. I do that immediately after the scan, before other Photoshop filter work.

I'll tick the "color restoration" box in the Epson software -- it's also on or off, no settings -- and if it looks good, I'll keep it. if I think it makes the image look worse, I'll turn it back off (uncheck it). Note that the Epson "restoration" sometimes clips too many values from shadows and highlights, or it can cast the image into the wrong color/white balance.

I still do levels and hue correction in Photoshop.

I'll do white balance correction in Camera Raw 4 (via Bridge CS3), when needed.

This may be far more advanced than average users will do -- but I'm also shooting for professional publications (magazines, newspapers). I give the same treatment to personal scans -- mostly because I can.

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  #7  
08-06-2010, 01:53 AM
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Does all this advice apply to the cd album cover art as well? what about record covers?

I also scan alot of various magazine, book & newspaper images for my art reference, to document what references I used for an artwork, some of them are full page size 8 & 1/2 inches or bigger, some are smaller images of various sizes on pages. Would all the specs advised to me for use in scanning my ticket scans & CD album cover art apply to scanning these items as well?
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08-06-2010, 04:11 AM
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The info in this thread applies to pretty much everything you can scan.
That would include all of the sources you've mentioned.

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