AG-1980 on eBay, video head protrusion?

[Rookie20]

Hello everyone,

This is a great site for learning! I have 10 VHS-C tapes and have found another 10 more tapes at my parents house. There maybe more. So I am at the start of transferring the tapes and need to a purchase a VCR. I currently have a Samsung DVD-VR375 and not sure if it is the machine to use.
I have read through a lot of post on this site and the recommended VCR for transfer VHS-C tapes is the Panasonic AG-1980P. If this is incorrect please let me know, as I want to get a good machine. I have found an AG-1980 on EBay for $699 plus 169 for shipping since I live in Canada this would be well over $1200.
My question is about video head tip protrusion. According to the Ebay listing a new video head tip protrusion typically measures between 35um and 38um. Video head tips wear down (protrude less from the video head drum) as a result of friction created as the head tips travel over the video tape. According to his listing the AG-1980 has between 30um and 32um for each of the heads. I have never read anywhere about video head tip protrusion. Is this important? Also is this a good price or should I be looking elsewhere for this VCR.

Thankyou
Rookie

[bookemdano]

I think when brand new, VCR heads protrude about 50uM. As you said, they wear in the course of normal use, and by the time they get down below 20uM or so they will can produce visible noise in the playback picture.

Given that most all VCRs sold now are used and replacement heads are basically unavailable, buying a VCR with > 30 microns of head protrusion basically just gives you the confidence that the heads still have plenty of life left. Given that you don't have that many tapes to transfer, you will not really have to worry about wearing down the heads.

Head wear will be the least of your worries with an AG-1980. Have you read up on the electrolytic capacitors? There are lots of them and they go bad over the years and require replacement, which runs $500+ USD.

So definitely keep that in mind when shopping for an AG-1980. You can either buy a cheap "for parts or not working" condition deck and budget $500-600 to ship it off to deter or TGrant for a thorough refurbishment & recap. Or, you can spend the big bucks up front for a unit that has already had that service performed. If you go that route, make absolutely certain that you get details on what caps were replaced, and you might want to ask the seller who refurbished it and inquire about how long the unit is warranted for. If they only replaced the dead caps they may have missed the ones that were starting to die. And so you could find that the deck works fine for a while and then develops problems again.

If all your tapes are VHS-C, then you might want to consider just using a JVC S-VHS-C camcorder to transfer them. Numerous models are available, many of which have a TBC. I picked up a GR-SXM920U back in December for about $40. It was in mint condition and works great--it even included the JVC CP7U motorized VHS adapter (which normally sells for $30+ on its own!).

Just some food for thought.

[Rookie20]

Thank you Bookemdano for the information
The Panasonic AH-1980P was sold before I could make an offer. Not sure it would have been a good buy after your information on the electrolytic capacitors. The Ebay seller said he replaced some of the capacitors, but from reading additional information there might have been more wrong with it and would have to invest more money into the unit
I took your advice and searched for a GR-SXM920U, currently there are two on Ebay right now.
I still would like to purchase a good high end VCR for a decent price, since I live in Canada I have to add 30% to the overall cost. any advice to get a good JVC unit would be appreciated
Thanks

[bookemdano]

Well don't overlook potential listings in Canada (I would imagine at least some of these decks and cameras were sold there as well). That said, I know I haven't found much good locally for sale in my area of the US--so I usually have to resort to ebay as well.

There is a thread at the top of the Capturing forum with a list of recommended JVC decks. If I were you I would make sure you buy from a seller who allows returns. Often when people say they "tested" it means they just powered it on and poked some buttons. Plus, if it's not packed very well then it could be damaged in shipping.

Another option to consider is the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U. It's a D-VHS VCR but plays S-VHS and VHS too, and can *sometimes* be found for cheaper than the JVC units. It has pretty much identical DNR/TBC functionality to the JVCs.

RE: the camcorder, you don't have to get the 920U--that's just one suitable model. There are a bunch of others, although I'm not aware that anyone has compiled a list so far. The TBC in those camcorders isn't quite as robust as the one in JVC's VCRs, but it's probably sufficient for most 1st gen tapes (which pretty much all VHS-C tapes would be).

So you might want to just search ebay for JVC S-VHS-C camcorder and look at the photos--often the models with a TBC advertised it on the side (either screen-printed or on a sticker). Again, try to find something with a return policy and test it as soon as you get it with a tape you don't care about (I picked up a couple of blank VHS-C tapes on ebay to test mine. I recorded a short bit and then played it back).

Hopefully others can chime in with recommendations too.

Edit: For the camcorder, make sure the listing comes with the AC adapter and associated cables. The batteries are all 20+ years old and not (or barely) working. Plus, for transfer work you don't want or need battery power anyway. For the 920U and many other JVC cams they used a small cord with barrel connectors on both ends that plugs into the battery charger and also into the side of the camcorder. In this listing you can see it in the pictures to the left of the tapes. Note that the seller is selling it in "For parts or not working" condition but in the description says it works fine, just that the battery doesn't hold a charge (of course it doesn't!). Sometimes you can find decent stuff in the "for parts or not working" category. Just keep in mind that you can't return it, so it can be a bit of a gamble.

Here's another listing for a different model (has TBC) that shows the barrel connector cord clearly in the first photo. The seller accepts offers and S-VHS-C camcorders are not in high demand like S-VHS VCRs and Sony Hi8 camcorders. So if you find a listing that accepts offers you can try asking for a lower price--oftentimes the seller will accept or counter with something in between.

[lingyi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookie20

Thank you Bookemdano for the information
The Panasonic AH-1980P was sold before I could make an offer. Not sure it would have been a good buy after your information on the electrolytic capacitors. The Ebay seller said he replaced some of the capacitors, but from reading additional information there might have been more wrong with it and would have to invest more money into the unit
Thanks

According to lordsmurf and Deter, two of the gurus of AG-1980's, ALL of the caps must be replaced for proper operation and performance. Deter recommends buying a cheap machine and he offers a really good deal. Barring major repairs, he'll refurb the machine for $500. Until he refurbs it, you don't pay anything.

This is an excellent thread where he makes the offer and discusses with lordsmurf how the good and bad of the machines.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...Repair-Service

You may be able to same some money by having the machine shipped directly to Deter and have him ship it to you after refurb.,

-- merged --

Deter's recommendation:

"I just tell people to buy broken units themselves on ebay and I will look over the ad. Than once I get the machine will inspect it. So if the machine has bad heads or parts missing we get a refund and send it back. If it has extra damage usually get the client a discount on the order. So when the ad says the unit has a lot of problems that is a good one to buy. The cheaper the better. We don't want broken jog dials or missing buttons and ect. I repair anything so powers up and black and white only or wavy lines and dim display are the same repairs as the unit purchased $1,000 that says mint almost new in the box."

[Rookie20]

Thank you Bookemdano & Lingyi for the response.
I apologized for not getting back to this form sooner, but my Dad is in a Long term Home and with Covid my first priority was/is to spend time with him.
Bookemdano, I took your advice and purchased the JVC GR-SXM920 from Ebay. I will use this camcorder to play the VHS-C tapes to capture the video after I have assembled the necessary equipment (JVC S-VHS, TBC, capture card and a dedicated PC). I cannot afford to buy all equipment at once, I will only be buying one piece at a time.
The next piece of equipment I would like to buy is a good S-VHS player by JVC as I have several VHS tapes I would like to transfer. I Know by reading this forms that, lordsmurf sells good S-VCR's. The question I have is this a good time to reach out to lordsmurf, as I know the situation in southern states was not good due to the winter storm. The last thing I want to due is bother someone when they are dealing more urgent maters. If anyone knows when I good time to reach out to lordsmurf is, could they please let me know

Thank you

[bookemdano]

Good on you spending time with your Dad. Everything else is secondary!

Hope the SXM920 works well for you. Be sure to test it first thing after you receive it (might want to pick up a blank VHS-C tape to test with if you don't already have one... it would be a bad idea to test using one of your precious prerecorded tapes).

The TBC is going to be the most expensive and most difficult thing to find these days. When they do show up on ebay they go for beaucoup bucks. What you may want to do in the meantime is pick up a Panasonic ES15 DVD recorder on ebay. They regularly go for $100 or less and when used as a passthrough device they do a passable job as a quasi-line TBC and frame sync. Even if you ultimately get a full-fledged frame TBC, an ES15 can be handy to keep around because the line TBC in your camcorder and VCR sometimes get foiled by certain tapes. In those cases, with an ES15 you can turn off the line TBC in the VCR/cam and let the ES15 attempt to correct the footage. It does work pretty well and the "bang for the buck" factor is quite high. Just make sure you get one with a remote as there is a noise reduction setting you should change in the menu, and the only way to access that menu is with the remote. You could also buy the remote separately on ebay if that works out to be cheaper.

LordSmurf can best answer to his current status, but I think the power issues in Texas are mostly resolved now (it was 80 degrees there yesterday! )

[lingyi]

He posted on his status a few days back here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news...nt-status.html and thankfully he seems to be back as well as possible given the situation there as he'e been actively posting here and at videohelp.com.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookie20

Hello everyone,
This is a great site for learning!

Welcome. Glad to hear it.

Quote:

I have 10 VHS-C tapes

SP or EP mode?

Quote:

Samsung DVD-VR375 and not sure if it is the machine to use.

No.

Quote:

I have read through a lot of post on this site and the recommended VCR for transfer VHS-C tapes is the Panasonic AG-1980P. If this is incorrect please let me know,

Some EOL JVCs do well at it, too. AG1980 just more reliable at it. Some early/mid JVCs are lousy. The format is to blame, not the decks, those flimsy tapes suck.

Quote:

I have found an AG-1980 on EBay for $699 plus 169 for shipping since I live in Canada this would be well over $1200.

I wouldn't do it.

Quote:

My question is about video head tip protrusion. According to the Ebay listing a new video head tip protrusion typically measures between 35um and 38um. Video head tips wear down (protrude less from the video head drum) as a result of friction created as the head tips travel over the video tape. According to his listing the AG-1980 has between 30um and 32um for each of the heads. I have never read anywhere about video head tip protrusion. Is this important? Also is this a good price or should I be looking elsewhere for this VCR.

That reads like something scraped from TGrant's site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookemdano

Head wear will be the least of your worries with an AG-1980. Have you read up on the electrolytic capacitors?

IMPORTANT!

Quote:

ship it off to deter or TGrant

TGrant refuses to do anything outside the US, no Canada.

Quote:

If all your tapes are VHS-C, then you might want to consider just using a JVC S-VHS-C camcorder to transfer them. Numerous models are available, many of which have a TBC. I picked up a GR-SXM920U back in December for about $40. It was in mint condition and works great--it even included the JVC CP7U motorized VHS adapter (which normally sells for $30+ on its own!).

Those cameras are so awful. I still have both of mine, cost about $650 new about 20 years ago. The plastic buttons eventually break (zoom, etc), and the decks used to eat tapes easily. If you got it to work, count yourself lucky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookie20

The Ebay seller said he replaced some of the capacitors, but from reading additional information there might have been more wrong with it and would have to invest more money into the unit

Show me the listing. Link it here. There are VCR scammers on eBay, especially that lying butthole with an attitude out of Houston. There's a thread here dedicated to him, and all his usernames (he has multiple accounts). He now hides the fact that he's in Houston on some listings, puts down something stupid and generic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookemdano

Often when people say they "tested" it means they just powered it on and poked some buttons. Plus, if it's not packed very well then it could be damaged in shipping.

Correct.

Quote:

Another option to consider is the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U.

This should be considered an "SP mode only" deck.

Quote:

There are a bunch of others, although I'm not aware that anyone has compiled a list so far.
The TBC in those camcorders isn't quite as robust as the one in JVC's VCRs, but it's probably sufficient for most 1st gen tapes (which pretty much all VHS-C tapes would be).

There are not many, just 2-3 S-VHS-C cameras with line TBC. And I don't think the line TBC is the same caliber as the TBC in the VCRs. It's always felt weak to do-nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingyi

ALL of the caps must be replaced for proper operation and performance.

If you don't replace ALL the caps, the deck will break again in 1-2 years, used or not. It really sucks. I'm somewhat miffed at TGrant, as every deck he fixed is now in need of repair again. I didn't realize that ALL caps needed to be swapped into more recent years, and he only replaced bad caps. I don't know if he knew this or what. I had to have caps replaced on my DR-M10 and ES10 in past years, and it was fine thereafter. But the AG-1980 faults over and over until ALL caps are swapped. I didn't realize that until the past year or two (and same for deter).

Quote:

This is an excellent thread where he makes the offer and discusses with lordsmurf how the good and bad of the machines.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...Repair-Service

There's also a thread where I went back-and-forth with orsetto, and gave more details on the money pit that is the AG-1980.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookie20

t my Dad is in a Long term Home and with Covid my first priority was/is to spend time with him.

Always.

Quote:

If anyone knows when I good time to reach out to lordsmurf is, could they please let me know

Now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookemdano

The TBC is going to be the most expensive and most difficult thing to find these days. When they do show up on ebay they go for beaucoup bucks.

There are a LOT of bad/flawed units on eBay. I was floored when I recently saw a "for parts/repair" TBC-1000 sell for $1k. Not just listed, but sold. There are bad TBC-1000s, and most originate on eBay. Bad TBCs are passed around that site like a drunk girl at a frat party (I know, eww, that's my point). Odds are good that we'll hear about that sale, from the buyer (good or bad), at some point.

Quote:

What you may want to do in the meantime is pick up a Panasonic ES15 DVD recorder on ebay. They regularly go for $100 or less

As always, ES10/15 is not a TBC, and is part of a TBC(ish) setup. I'm tired of writing about the ES10/15, and will soon do a dedicated article on it, working on it this week and next. Then I can just link it. The remote is required, and a good unit is often in the $100-150 range. Sometimes less, sometimes more.

Quote:

Even if you ultimately get a full-fledged frame TBC, an ES15 can be handy to keep around

Correct, as anti-tearing filter.

Quote:

You could also buy the remote separately on ebay if that works out to be cheaper.

Be careful here. Lots of these are from China, even the "USA" ones. And these days, a package from China takes about 2 months to get here.

Quote:

(it was 80 degrees there yesterday! )

Not here. Low 70s with strong chill wind, felt like 50s/60s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingyi

he'e been actively posting here and at videohelp.com.

I should have hidden a few more days. Still playing catch-up.

[Rookie20]

Thank you Bookemdano, Lingyi, & lordsmurf for taking the time to respond to my post
Bookemdano I will take your advice and put a blank VHS-C tape in the camcorder to the test the unit prior to putting one of my family tapes in the camcorder. The camcorder will not be here till middle of March. I will also keep my eyes on this site and Ebay for the Panasonic ES15 DVD recorder.
lordsmurf I am not sure how to reach you, as I would like to purchase a JVC S-VHS for capturing VHS tapes.
Most of my tapes are recorded in SP, with a few recorded in EP. I do have 20 VHS-C tapes, and I purchased a JVC GR-SXM920U camcorder to transfer these tapes. Originally I thought of purchasing the Panasonic AG-1980, but after reading all your advice I am very hesitant to purchase this VCR, and rather invest my money in the JVC S-VHS.
Thank you

[lingyi]

Click on his name to send him a PM or type his name three times...lordsmurf, lordsmurf, lordsmurf*, and he magically appears in your thread. Oops...now I did it!

*In case you're too young to know: https://youtu.be/ickbVzajrk0?t=23

[Rookie20]

In Bookemdano's recent reply he mention getting a Panasonic DMR-ES15 DVD Recorder to use as a passthrough device as they do a passable job as a quasi-line TBC and frame sync. I read in lordsmurf post after Bookemdano post, that these devices are useful but do not take the place as a full TBC.
In reviewing the posts in this form there are DVD recorders recommended from other manufactures. One of the brands recommended was the Toshiba DVD recorder. I purchased a Toshiba RD-XS34SU brand new back in the 2000's to recorded my dv tapes from the camcorder to dvd. (Converting my DV tapes to digital will be my next project, and I am sure I will be asking for advice when I start the second part of my video transfer).
My question is, does this Toshiba DVD recorder allow passthrough, and does it do anything to clean up the video signal? Is this machine good enough or should I purchase the Panasonic player

Thanks for the help

[lordsmurf]

Toshiba having passthrough is debatable.

I had determined it did NOT years ago, but re-bought a unit last year for further testing. And because I just wanted a Toshiba in my current DVD recorder toolbox.

I've not yet had time to test it for any TBC performance (if any TBC exists at all).

If TBC does exist, it may be like the ES20/25, or ADVC-300, so weak as to be negligible.

[lingyi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingyi

Click on his name to send him a PM or type his name three times...lordsmurf, lordsmurf, lordsmurf*, and he magically appears in your thread. Oops...now I did it!

See. Woooooooo...spoooooky!

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingyi

see. Woooooooo...spoooooky!

smurf-orko-small.gif

..............