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  #1  
02-03-2012, 12:18 AM
lopaka1998 lopaka1998 is offline
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could use your suggestion for a HDTV if you have one. Our Samsung 32" CRT based HDTV broke down and we need a new unit. Looking for a plasma or LCD based screen. Approx 32" in size - can vary a few inches but limited by available space. I'm looking for one with a LED backlit display. I don't care for flourescent backlighting and believe that LED backlighting can provide a better picture. Please let me know your thoughts on flourescent vs led backlighting. I'm also looking for something with a good viewing angle - about 150 degree angle. I'm open to plasma screens. I'm not concerned with a little difference in power consumption. Would you recommend Samsung? I'd really love to buy soemthing that lasts more than 3-5 years. On a good note though I do service electronics as a hobby, and I'm quite good at it. So if it did break, I wouldn't have a problem replacing the electrolytic capacitors which often is a main failing point in these new tv's.

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  #2  
02-03-2012, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Approx 32" in size
Just to verify ... that's a 16:9 widescreen Samsung HDTV, but as CRT and not flat?
Like this one, maybe? ...

89-102-023-03.jpg

I just want to verify we're using the same base dimensions, a 32" in 16x9 HDTV terms, not 32" in 4x3 SDTV terms.

What's the largest you're willing to go?
Maybe measure the space available (the inside of a cabinet?) and give the maximum width available.

Then I'll let you know what I think is best for your exact needs.



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  #3  
02-03-2012, 02:13 AM
lopaka1998 lopaka1998 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
Just to verify ... that's a 16:9 widescreen Samsung HDTV, but as CRT and not flat?
Like this one, maybe? ...

Attachment 2297

I just want to verify we're using the same base dimensions, a 32" in 16x9 HDTV terms, not 32" in 4x3 SDTV terms.
Yes, it was one of those 16:9 TV's from Samsung Circa 2007 that happened to be a CRT but was 16:9 ratio.
This is the exact one, I guess it was 30".:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-TXS308.../dp/B000F2R5CO

Quote:
What's the largest you're willing to go?
Maybe measure the space available (the inside of a cabinet?) and give the maximum width available.
It will be placed on the top of a nice old wood 4:3 cabinet that used to fit a 25" 4:3 crt tv (which has since died, and been recycled. We now put our stereo, dvd player, etc in the inside. where the old tv's guts used to go. The horizontal size / width of the top part of the cabinet is 35". So any size that can fit that base without hanging over the edge would work. I'm not quite sure what that equates to in a diagonal measurement.

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Then I'll let you know what I think is best for your exact needs.
I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
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  #4  
02-03-2012, 02:55 AM
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1. Does it have to be new, or is reburbished okay?

2. Are you willing to buy it online, or are you only wanting to walk into a local store and carry it out?
If local, which of these stores are nearby? Sears, Kmart, TigerDirect, CompUSA, Circuit City, Fry's, Best Buy, Costco, Walmart

3. If online is okay, are there any stores you have a bias/boycott against?

4. If we alert you to a deal, will you buy it immediately? Or is this long-term research? (Reason: We get a lot of emails daily about 24/48/72/96 hour type sales. And many of them are limited stock that sell out quickly. No need to waste time pointing out deals that won't be used anyway.)

5. What's the budget?

6. Any brand preferences or prejudices?

7. Any specific features you need or want?

Generally speaking LCD is better than plasma. Plasma is honestly on the way out now. There have been some great plasma sets in past years, but I almost don't even see plasma sets anymore. Almost everything has moved to later-generation (3rd? 4th?) type LCDs, and some of them are simply amazing in terms of the features. About 4-5 years ago, these were features only found on high-end sets. Now it's standard on mid-grade sets.

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  #5  
02-03-2012, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
1. Does it have to be new, or is reburbished okay?
I think we would prefer a new unit.

Quote:
2. Are you willing to buy it online, or are you only wanting to walk into a local store and carry it out?
If local, which of these stores are nearby? Sears, Kmart, TigerDirect, CompUSA, Circuit City, Fry's, Best Buy, Costco, Walmart Online/store
'I am flexible. Either is fine. Lowest price available for a good quality tv is the primary focus.

Sears, Fry's, Best Buy, costco (we have membership), walmart are local. Local Kmart closed down but there is one about 4 miles away. Didn't Circuit City go bankrupt? Their website still is up apparently though - and I would buy from them if there is a good item with a fair deal.

Quote:
3. If online is okay, are there any stores you have a bias/boycott against?
Online is okay. No bias/boycott against any store in particular.
Quote:
4. If we alert you to a deal, will you buy it immediately? Or is this long-term research? (Reason: We get a lot of emails daily about 24/48/72/96 hour type sales. And many of them are limited stock that sell out quickly. No need to waste time pointing out deals that won't be used anyway.)
Yes, will buy immediately. I'm ready to buy now so if you find a good tv with a 24 hour sale, that would work well.
Quote:
5. What's the budget?
approx $600 - but if a good tv is around $650 or so, I can flex a bit.
Quote:
6. Any brand preferences or prejudices?
I have heard samsung is good and visio is a cheap samsung. But if you know of a brand that lasts longer/is better, I'm open to suggestions and flexible.
Quote:
7. Any specific features you need or want?
A wide viewing angle - approx 150 degree angle or so would be needed. Must fit in 35" width space without hanging over the edge as it would be located near a door. There is a one inch trim around the end of the space the tv will be standing on - so there is two more inches available up to the absolute edge. So something that was 35" and a little bit would be ok. No vertical limitations. I have seen some tv's that are approximately 36-37" diagonal size that fit the 35" horizontal size. A simple standard 60Hz refresh rate would be fine. Don't need a higher refresh rate. Would prefer a "dumb tv" - meaning I don't need any type of specific compatibility - like internet for netflix access or anything like that. A couple HDMI plugs would be nice. Would need an antenna coax cable, composite inputs for the vcr. If there is a good tv that has some smart features that would be okay - but I don't plan on needing those features. One thing - I would prefer a unit without a wireless receiver/transceiver. Would like led backlighting if possible.

Quote:
some of them are simply amazing in terms of the features. About 4-5 years ago, these were features only found on high-end sets. Now it's standard on mid-grade sets.
That is amazing. There have been so many technology changes as of late that I can't seem to quite keep up!

Thanks in advance for your help.
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  #6  
02-03-2012, 05:58 PM
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go with an LED - there are edge and full LED backlighting
also check the refresh rate - i had a 60hz 42" LCD and it sucked

i now have a 42" LED 240hz Vizio - it is edge lit LED and pretty good and was $600

my dad has a Vizio TRU-LED 240hz and it is AWESOME - he got it at Costco
it puts my uncles Sony Bravia to shame

do not buy a Plasma - old tech and VERY power hungry
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  #7  
02-06-2012, 08:24 PM
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I looked a several 32" HDTVs locally on Friday night for you. Most have awful viewing angles.

In terms of the viewing angle, the one that stood out as best was the Sony Bravia models.

The local Walmart has the 720p/60Hz KDL-32BX310 on closeout price of $299. So check your local Walmart.
It's also available online: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-32-KDL-32BX310

Amazon has the 1080p/60Hz KDL32BX420 for $440: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B004HYG9SW

TigerDirect has the 720p/60Hz KDL32BX320 for $379.99 - http://www.tigerdirect.com/item-details.asp?CatId=3649

At such a small size, 720p vs 1080p doesn't really make a difference. Unless you sit 12 inches from the screen, you'll only start to notice 720 vs 1080 quality when you being to jump into the 50-60" range. And even then, video compression isn't pixel-accurate anyway.

I do think, however, than 120Hz is better than 60Hz, and worth having as a feature. The smaller Sony sets lack this. So the hunt may still be on. I guess it really comes down to whether you want to try for the feature, or if you feel the Sony mentioned above has good enough specs. From what I've seen 120Hz is mostly only found on 1080p sets, so you'd still be looking at 1080 over 720.

--------

The premium model of 32" LCD is easily the 1080p/120Hz Samsung UN32D6000, which runs right at $800 virtually anywhere.
B&H currently has that one in stock http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...3167/KBID/4166

It's $720 at TigerDirect: http://www.tigerdirect.com/item-details.asp?CatId=5988

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  #8  
02-07-2012, 10:28 PM
lopaka1998 lopaka1998 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I looked a several 32" HDTVs locally on Friday night for you. Most have awful viewing angles.

In terms of the viewing angle, the one that stood out as best was the Sony Bravia models.

The local Walmart has the 720p/60Hz KDL-32BX310 on closeout price of $299. So check your local Walmart.
It's also available online: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-32-KDL-32BX310
Thanks for looking for tv's for me.

I saw the KDL-32BX310 at walmart today and visited best buy and costco. It was hard to judge the viewing angles with the walmart display so high up with those glaring flourescent lights they have @ walmart. One thing I've noticed - they appear to be about the same - appearance and viewing angle wise.. All the ones we saw were florescent backlit, 60hz, 720p. The bigger ones - 40+" appeared to be the 1080p ones.

Quote:
Amazon has the 1080p/60Hz KDL32BX420 for $440: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B004HYG9SW

TigerDirect has the 720p/60Hz KDL32BX320 for $379.99 - http://www.tigerdirect.com/item-details.asp?CatId=3649

At such a small size, 720p vs 1080p doesn't really make a difference. Unless you sit 12 inches from the screen, you'll only start to notice 720 vs 1080 quality when you being to jump into the 50-60" range. And even then, video compression isn't pixel-accurate anyway.

I do think, however, than 120Hz is better than 60Hz, and worth having as a feature. The smaller Sony sets lack this. So the hunt may still be on. I guess it really comes down to whether you want to try for the feature, or if you feel the Sony mentioned above has good enough specs. From what I've seen 120Hz is mostly only found on 1080p sets, so you'd still be looking at 1080 over 720.
They all look like nice tv's.

I've done a little more research today and found that a 37" model would just fit our space - just barely. I've found a 37" LCD tv, 720p, 60Hz with a LED backlight. It has a exceptional viewing angle according to amazon - 178 degree. link: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-VIERA-TC-L37E3-37-Inch-1080p/dp/B004M8SBCA/ref=cm_rdp_product

What do you think of the one above?

I wanted to ask about the 120Hz feature. What's the difference other than a buffer of the same frame? I just don't get why anyone would need 120Hz when at most the tv would see 60 interlaced fields. Is the difference a "night and day" difference? The 60Hz tv's we saw today in the stores seemed to be very smooth and look good - minus the really good viewing angle. Am I missing something?

Quote:
--------

The premium model of 32" LCD is easily the 1080p/120Hz Samsung UN32D6000, which runs right at $800 virtually anywhere.
B&H currently has that one in stock http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...3167/KBID/4166

It's $720 at TigerDirect: http://www.tigerdirect.com/item-details.asp?CatId=5988
I'm almost sold on the 37" I found today. I don't like the price - I'd be happier if it were around $450 or something. But I'll go $600 if you guys think it's a good one. The only other issue is the longevity of the unit - will it last - and the screen refresh rate.

Thanks for your continued help... You've got me in the right direction. Now I've just got to decide over a few features like refresh rate and view angles.
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  #9  
02-11-2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
I wanted to ask about the 120Hz feature. What's the difference other than a buffer of the same frame? I just don't get why anyone would need 120Hz when at most the tv would see 60 interlaced fields. Is the difference a "night and day" difference? The 60Hz tv's we saw today in the stores seemed to be very smooth and look good - minus the really good viewing angle. Am I missing something?
It's a night-and-day difference, yes. You're missing something, yes. Understand that I'm not one of those "newer is always better" tech nerds, and I don't get easily impressed by silly frilly features. Most of the specs found on a TV are useless, such as contrast ratios, 1080p/720p under a certain size, 3D, LED vs other light sources, etc. But 120Hz is truly a valuable feature of modern TV sets.

The motion is smooth and clear. When you put a 60Hz set next to a 120Hz set, you'll quickly see how much the 60Hz set flickers and has lower color quality because of it, because it lacks image data on-screen for several milliseconds. The Hz is not the same as the frame rate, which is where most folks make the mistake. It doesn't double the framerate. The quicker an image is loaded onto the screen, the smoother and clearer it looks.

Refresh rate (60Hz/120Hz/etc) is different from frame rate (23.976/24p, 29.97/60i, etc).

The best HDTVs have no just 120Hz, but also motion compensation filters, MPEG noise reduction, etc. You can truly make your video look better than the DVD you're watching, if you buy the right TV. That's one reason so many people are fans of the Sony lines -- the SXRDs, XBR LCDs, Bravia LCDs, etc.

Therein lies the difference.

A 60Hz HDTV is like a flatter/bigger version of the TV you owned in 1995. A 120Hz TV is that "HD quality" you hear about from marketers.

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  #10  
02-15-2012, 11:21 PM
lopaka1998 lopaka1998 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
It's a night-and-day difference, yes. You're missing something, yes. Understand that I'm not one of those "newer is always better" tech nerds, and I don't get easily impressed by silly frilly features. Most of the specs found on a TV are useless, such as contrast ratios, 1080p/720p under a certain size, 3D, LED vs other light sources, etc. But 120Hz is truly a valuable feature of modern TV sets.

The motion is smooth and clear. When you put a 60Hz set next to a 120Hz set, you'll quickly see how much the 60Hz set flickers and has lower color quality because of it, because it lacks image data on-screen for several milliseconds. The Hz is not the same as the frame rate, which is where most folks make the mistake. It doesn't double the framerate. The quicker an image is loaded onto the screen, the smoother and clearer it looks.

Refresh rate (60Hz/120Hz/etc) is different from frame rate (23.976/24p, 29.97/60i, etc).
Thank you for educating me on the topic. That is really where those question marks in my head popped up. Thanks for making it make sense.

Quote:

The best HDTVs have no just 120Hz, but also motion compensation filters, MPEG noise reduction, etc. You can truly make your video look better than the DVD you're watching, if you buy the right TV. That's one reason so many people are fans of the Sony lines -- the SXRDs, XBR LCDs, Bravia LCDs, etc.

Therein lies the difference.

A 60Hz HDTV is like a flatter/bigger version of the TV you owned in 1995. A 120Hz TV is that "HD quality" you hear about from marketers.

I have one more question and then I guess I could use a revised suggestion. My question is about the type of backlighting, it's viewing angles, and quality of light.

Are the CCFL backlighting technically related to a standard flourescent light? Reason I ask - I don't care for standard flourescent light spectrum in particular (their phosphors give off limited spectrum). also don't like their quality of light. I found some spectrograms of house lighting and found that led lighting was the best alternative to incandescent. I know this isn't exactly the same as tv lighting. But if their are slimlarities, wouldn't that type of backlighting also have those kinds of flaws? I've got a really cheap dell CCFL backlit monitor and the brightness/color is harsh (even after adjusting it - it's simply tough on the eyes). I have to use an 30 watt incandescent over the monitor to help with the monitor's light harshness. That's what I'm trying to avoid - and trying to figure out if a tv wiith a ccfl backlight will have a similar effect.

And then there is still the problem of wide viewing angle. I know you said to forget the plasmas - but they don't seem to have any of the major problems that the other ones have - particularly the viewing angle and backlight leakage.

So with your help, I am now in need of a revised suggestion. $600 or less (approximate), 36-37 inch max, 120hz.

The model I suggested above - the panasonic - I really like the idea of a very wide viewing angle - but I'm not in favor of reports of high backlight leakage from that model.

Why can't they just make a tv that just works... grrr...... I am really ready to buy something asap... but i've got to address the viewing angle issue. I'm not so worried about a plasma - re: energy consumption - we already use 1/3 less than the average in California anyway.

Thanks again for your advise.
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  #11  
02-16-2012, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
I don't care for standard flourescent light spectrum
While CCFL is technically florescent, I don't really think you can analog it to household light bulbs. It's definitely not the same as long industrial florescent lamps, or those new squiggly CFL bulbs (compact fluorescent lamp).

A CCFL = cold cathode fluorescent lamp. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_cathode

It's similar to a CRT (cathode ray tube) that powers older traditional TV sets -- but is more compact and allows for flat screens.
This is "cold" technology.

An old CRT was "hot" technology, and required an electron gun, which is what made the TV box-shaped.
So the old CRTs are florescent, too!

Quote:
I've got a really cheap dell CCFL backlit monitor and the brightness/color is harsh (even after adjusting it - it's simply tough on the eyes).
The problem with cheap TV sets and computer monitors is that they're made for stupid people. A lot of the "features" fond on modern displays are created specifically for consumers that prefer low-grade junk. Quality monitors and TVs simply do not sell well. Stores are mostly lit by overly bright industrial florescent lighting. When you view a TV/monitor with decent values, they appear dim in comparison to the environment. In order to compensate for this, the values are pumped up to ridiculous eyeball-scorching levels. It's not just hard to see -- it's literally bad for the eyes, and causes long-term sight damage.

This includes shiny screens, super brightness, and super contrast. While all of these things make an image "pop" and have "good colors" (where "good" = over-saturated and vibrant), it destroys the accuracy of the image, as well as hurts the eyesight of viewers. Headaches are common, including mild ones that may result in mood swings and behavioral issues. It's especially hard to cope with if you're photophobic (a low tolerance for bright light).

Professionals and refined video watchers/hobbyists (including "videophiles") all seek accurate viewing displays. Much attention is given to the brightness, contrast, and controls thereof. For computer monitors, cheap TN-based LCDs are wholly avoided, and the preferred technology is IPS-based LCDs, which all start at about $300 each.

Higher-grade HDTV brands, like Sony, have ample controls for brightness, backlight and contrast. The cheaper TVs, however, like Vizio, have almost none. These low-end HDTVs are perma-set to "eyeball death" for brightness and backlight values.

Quote:
know you said to forget the plasmas - but they don't seem to have any of the major problems that the other ones have
Plasmas have issues of their own -- namely shortened lifespans for the plasma inside the display, reduced accuracy of the color (muddy and dim), and heat. The biggest advantage plasma had against LCD was black levels and color quality, but LCD technology advanced in the past decade. LCD has almost no drawbacks anymore, while plasma has the same concerns as it did 5+ years ago. So those have largely fallen out of favor.

However, if you find a plasma set you like, and the price is right -- go for it. Though be aware that plasma's high Hz rates are ridiculous. I've seen 240Hz-600Hz specs for plasma, and it's just silly. I'm not sure some of those would even qualify as 120Hz in the LCD world, because the images are still flickery.

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  #12  
02-16-2012, 11:34 PM
lopaka1998 lopaka1998 is offline
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Thanks for explaining that to me. I feel more comfortable now I have a better understanding. Thanks for that. Still looking for model suggestions.

I don't see any Sony models in the 36-37" range - which is our max. I guess we could go with a 32" sony bravia, but the 37" tv's look so much bigger

Are there any good 36 or 37" 120hz tv's out there, or should I settle on the 32" Sony Bravia?
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  #13  
02-20-2012, 08:59 PM
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The Samsung LN37B650 37-inch 1080p 120Hz would be nice -- but it's about $825, if you can find it (discontinued).
For whatever reason, 37" has fallen out of favor.

This particular model is a highly respected HDTV, however. So it may be worth a little more to get that added 5" and in 120Hz.

What do you want to do?

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  #14  
02-25-2012, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
The Samsung LN37B650 37-inch 1080p 120Hz would be nice -- but it's about $825, if you can find it (discontinued).
For whatever reason, 37" has fallen out of favor.

This particular model is a highly respected HDTV, however. So it may be worth a little more to get that added 5" and in 120Hz.

What do you want to do?
We've been discussing it over the past few days - figuring out what was important to us. $600 is our max limit. We've measured viewing angles. There is about a 45-50 degree angle on each side between the tv and where we sit. As long as we can see the tv well at those angles, I think we will be okay. After much debate and discussion we've also decided to go with a 32" tv after all, if we can get a good one. Our living room isn't really that big - and overall we think that size will fit the room better. The 40" models are just a little too big.

If you know if any 120Hz 32" tv's that are good quality, I'd love to know. If they don't make 120hz at that size, I guess the 60Hz Sony Bravia 32" mentioned above is on the table. If possible, a composite input would be nice, for the old vcr. I'm not really interested much in "smart" features - but if you find an otherwise perfect tv that has some, it's not a dealbreaker. I'm mainly trying to avoid the wireless transceivers. I really just need a regular tv. Other than that, I'm reasonably flexible. I'd just like something that works (and hopefully won't break down too quickly).

As a side note, I'm also going to pick up a power regulator from APC to help keep the tv's sensitive components lasting longer. Although our power is usually quite good, there has been some really bad undervoltages lately. Probably due to the aging equipment and deregulation of the power co's.

Thank you again for everything.
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  #15  
03-02-2012, 03:24 AM
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I've been looking around and I don't see any current tv's that are 32" that have 120hz.

I am guessing this is the consensus. Could reply back to verify this? I think my best option will be to go with the 32" 60Hz Sony Bravia - unless of course you know of a 120Hz version. Thanks for a quick reply.
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03-04-2012, 09:58 PM
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I don't either. In fact, everything is 720p / 60Hz below a certain size. Similar to how 720p is wasted below a certain size, I'm almost wondering if the same is true for 60Hz vs 120Hz. Or more likely, if the smaller HDTVs are considered "budget" models, and therefore lack the higher end hardware required for 120Hz. I looked at about 100 HDTVs in the past week, between Walmart, Target, Fry's, Sears, Best Buy and a few others.

Coby and Haier make nice sets. Almost as good as Sony, in terms of hardware image quality.
Toshiba, Panasonic and Vizio leave much to be desired.
Samsung and LG can go both ways, on the viewing angles and image clarity (both detail retention and lack of noise).

The 37" just is not really made much anymore. It goes from 32" to 40" to 46" to 55" to 60" these days. You still find 42" and 52", but not as many.
I did not see a single 37" in a showroom.

I don't think you'll go wrong with the Sony 32" HDTV. At most, it's just not a premium model. It's certainly not bad.

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  #17  
03-08-2012, 10:37 PM
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We just got in and set up our first LCD HDTV, a Sony Bravia 32", model # KDL32BX320. We settled on this model mainly because of the great advise provided here. It was at an amazing price of $299.00 at kmart. This model had a few extra mpeg noise reduction features and adjustments that the 310 model didn't have, which is why we decided to go up one model for the extra couple of features and adjustments the slightly newer one provided.

Thank you all so much for your help. I know I ask a lot of questions and have a tendency to get on peoples' nerves sometimes. But that is how I learn.

I can't tell you how amazing this tv is. It is really awesome and looks a lot bigger in our room. It fits perfectly, I'm glad we chose the 32" model instead of the 40". We are still using analog cable - and I can't believe how clear it is thanks to the mpeg noise reduction. It's really amazing. Of course we're now considering our digital channel options. Interestingly enough, we get more digital channels via the TV's clear QAM tuner than we get with it's analog ntsc receiver - even though we have analog cable. I thought that was ironic and a little funny.

I can't get over how clear and sharp everything is. Tomorrow I guess I get to calibrate it. There are so many adjustments in the setup. When I saw all of those settings it was a "wow" moment.

I just wanted to report back to thank everyone for all of your help. I couldn't be happier - it's a great television.
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The following users thank lopaka1998 for this useful post: kpmedia (03-23-2012)
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03-23-2012, 11:04 PM
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kpmedia kpmedia is offline
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I'm very happy to hear that.

Upon a recent visit to Dallas, I was put in a guest room with a TV from 1995. The DTV tuner attached to it picked up probably 40 channels! Many of them are not available through the cable and satellite providers. And to be honest, most of the OTA free niche stations were far more interesting than some of the basic cable channels.

To help with calibration, consider one of the calibration discs for about $10 to $30
Avia is better than DVE.
And be aware that the instructions for either one can be somewhat obtuse sometimes -- but just muddle through it.

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