Hawkhost vs Stablehost? Need to find a new web host...

[faustine]

Hi KPMedia and Friends,

Two scenarios:

1) For a friend, currently with JPC
-- By the looks of it, hes not able to get someone to share the cost so... likelihood, I would like to make it cheaper for his boss, without going the VPS route.

Using Opencart with thousands of products
Budget of USD 18 to USD 20 / month. Actually looking at the Super Shared Hosting in Hawkhost for them.

I'm not going to share the hosting with him after his JPC hosting ends next year.

2) For myself
-- Using Opencart with hundreds of products and Wordpress
Sharedhosting preferred with my limited budget - USD 5 to USD 9 / month (Looking at the Advanced Shared hosting in Hawkhost)

Our likely target customers location : Singapore and Asia.

Shortlisted :
Hawkhost
Stablehost

Willing to take in any other webhost suggestions as long as their Data Centers location is good for both of us and they are reliable enough.

-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==--

Also asking for another friend, is Hawkhost's VPS comparable to the more expensive StableHost? He has more specific requirements such as installing Confluence Wiki Software (Min. 256mb RAM). He expects more traffic from Singapore than overseas and will like a host with a Singapore Datacenter presence so he is leaning towards Hawkhost at the moment.

He also will like your advice and opinions on MediaLayer.

=-=-=-=-==-=-==-=-=-==-=-==-=-=-=-=

Would Hawkhost's Singapore Datacenter be good for all of us? Also I hope their tech support really works 24 hours 7 days a week... as we are in Singapore, if problems arises, we need to contact them and get solution almost immediately.

Thanks a zillion!

From the all blue noob
Faustine

[kpmedia]

Hi Faustine.

I think I might start off by trying to simplify the topic of resource use for you, which will lead to a better understanding of what you need, when, and why.

Edit/Update: Because this post was actually written at 3-4 different times, it may seem a bit rambling. If you need clarification, just ask.


Shared Hosting

Generally speaking, shared web hosting is intended for sites that have a few dozen (few hundred at most!) web pages, and probably don't get traffic on all pages at the same time. To define "shared web hosting", it's a reference to the sub-$10 plans that have control panel and FTP access only, sometimes jailed account/user-level SSH access. The host puts thousands of people on a server. If the host is small, sometimes just hundreds, though the server is probably less powerful.


Premium Shared Hosting

The grade above that is often considered to be VPS, but that's not actually the case.

The next level up in hosting is still shared hosting! But instead of it being low-cost $5 to $10 plans, with thousands of customers, it's a server with several dozen customers. Maybe several hundred, depending on the server's available resources. It's what you'd call low-density shared hosting. It's generally advertised as being semi-dedicated hosting or enterprise hosting or business hosting. These are higher-priced plans, often in the $20-30/monthly range.

Stablehost and MDDHosting are two excellent hosts that offer this service.

You can run a decent-sized site on a hosting plan like this, while also avoiding the hassles of managing a VPS. I think an e-commerce site (OpenCart, etc) or a forum would work well in this kind of plan.


Cloud Hosting

There really isn't any "cloud" shared hosting. Even if the underlying servers are based on cloud infrastructure, it's still a shared hosting plan. And it's either low-cost budget plans ($5-10/month), or it's business-grade non-budget plans with higher resources ($20-30/month). The term "cloud" has been abused and overused in the past couple of years, and is often not merited.

Cloud hosting is best used by people who need to seamlessly scale up resources beyond what standard hosting scenarios can provide. It's not really intended for small- or medium-sized website owners.

When you have a "shared cloud", understand that the host mostly did this for their own benefit, and not yours. It lets them scale their setup more easily, which may or may not make much difference to you as the end user. In situations like this, they're just marketing something needlessly, in the hopes that a gullible customer will think it's better to use. It's really not.


Virtual Servers / VPS

Next comes the VPS -- a virtual server. A big powerful dedicated server is carved up into several smaller dedicated servers using virtualization. With a VPS, you get a specific amount of RAM, and are no longer in a "equal share" type of shared environment. Your resources are more specified.

You're still sharing some resources, such as bandwidth (ports) and hard disk (I/O) -- sometimes CPU, depending on virtualization method -- but you'll get isolation of the runtime environment, in order to install whatever you want. For example, you can install aggressive caching that would be impossible on a shared server, which could result in making sites run leaner and faster for users, while also keeping your RAM/CPU resource use in check.

Depending on the amount of RAM you have, you can run a single site, or even several popular ones.

There are also two issues that you should be aware of...

(1) At this point, you're also managing your own servers.

The host isn't doing it anymore. You'll have to self-manage the security and functionality. You'll have to pay extra for a panel -- though some "managed" hosts include a panel in their pricing -- such as cPanel, Plesk or DirectAdmin. (For Linux, cPanel is suggested. For Windows, Plesk is suggested.) Or you can try your luck with one of the better free panels like VirtualMin GPL or ISPConfig 3.

Even if you have a "managed" host, you'll need to learn how to proactively maintain your server. Managed hosts are reactive, meaning they fix things on request. Some managed hosts also maintain panel and OS updates, but they won't harden the server, or customize to your needs, unless asked. And even then, some of them may charge a fee, and consider that support outside of their definition of what "managed" means. You could also hire a server management firm, or independent server admin for a monthly fee. (Note: I'm available in this capacity.)

(2) A common misconception is that a VPS is more powerful than shared hosting!

This is not necessarily true. Your smaller 512MB and under virtual servers are generally less powerful than a shared hosting server. On a premium grade shared plan, for example, there's a good change you'll have more power than a VPS. Even budget shared plans can give you higher resource spikes than you'd be able to achieve on a smaller RAM-limited VPS.

Just keep that in mind.


/done: Again, this may seem a bit rambling, because it was written at several different times. If you have more questions, just ask.

[faustine]

HI KPMedia,

Thanks for your short insight for now.
My Friend who needs Confluence, he needs to know your ranking for :
- MDDHosting
- StableHost
- Hawkhost

--- For his VPS.

As for both of us --- The JPC one and myself.. we are not not strict on requirements, but for the JPC -- its a commercial setup, so naturally I'll want him to have the best within his budget (Less than USD 18 to 20).

Since JPC is not really working well for him, downtimes are quite often so far We are really looking for something else... something that he do not need to get his hands too dirty with, since I'm probably not going to help him admin the server anymore (I'm not paid, but yet face the frustration.. lol... -- not fun!)

We're both using Opencart, only difference is his is commercial Computer Hardware Shop setup and expect more traffic & more products, than mine (US Beauty products Spree) ....

-- merged --

Hi KP Media, The weekend just swoooooosh by.. and my friend who wanted to get a VPS for his own setup is getting impatient. lol He's waiting for your kind reply, so here I am, asking if you could kindly reply asap -- Hawkhost vs Stablehost for their VPS offerings.

Thanks!

[kpmedia]

Q: Stablehost vs Hawkhost vs MDD Hosting for VPS hosting?
A: Hawkhost.

This advice is, of course, very specific to your friend's desired needs. Hawkhost has Singapore and San Jose (California) locations, and both would be good for your needs. The price of a Hawk Host VPS is also a bit lower than a Stablehost or MDDHosting VPS, though there is probably some minor tradeoff in support features.

If he's using a control panel, I'd go for 512MB VPS minimum, not the 384MB VPS. Give yourself some comfort room for a few dollars more.

This is a host where this site would get a small commission as an affiliate, so if your friend uses our link, it would be much appreciated.
Link: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/go/hawkhost.com

(And know that Stablehost would have paid more, so my advice is -- as usual -- completely unswayed by payouts. We join affiliate programs at good hosts, and that comes after seeing who the good hosts are! Advice is NEVER given based on payout amount!)

Generally speaking, these three are all excellent hosts.

[kpmedia]

I've made some additions to my past posts in this thread.
If you need any more assistance on this topic, reply here. If you need help on a new topic, simply create a new thread.

Thanks.

This was an unanswered question or unresolved issue found during a site audit. It's hard to have an FAQ when the answers are missing, or final outcomes are unknown. At The Digital FAQ support forum, questions are never intentionally ignored, and may have been missed due to a forum glitch or human error. More details on the audit. (In some cases, threads have been edited/updated with newer information.)

[faustine]

Hi KPMedia,

For my friend's company hosting, I wonder the new Semi-dedicated hosting will be good for him (the most basic plan ) http://www.hawkhost.com/semi-dedicated-hosting.

It should be on par with Stable host's Enterprise shared hosting?

Tried the test files for Hawk host- - Texas, Sanjose - CA, SG DC, and Texas was a wee bit faster in downloading... Max speed about 115kbps.

SG DC was the slowest somehow.

I'm considering Stablehost Enterprise Shared hosting VS Hawkhost Semi-dedicated both at $19.95 for my friend's commercial setup -- rather than having a complicated VPS in which I'm not confident of managing myself now.... And its more expensive in the long run perhaps? (giving me tons of headache with VPS at the present.... haha)

Your thoughts in relation to the above? Or any other Enterprise premium grade Shared hosting for the commercial setup?

For me, as mentioned in my other posting about Reseller vs VPS, I'm gonna change to Hawkhost's basic shared hosting myself for my not so high needs.

Thank you.

[kpmedia]

Yes, the Hawkhost semi-dedicated and the Stablehost enterprise are essentially the same thing.

I do think you'd be a better fit for semi-dedicated/enterprise hosting, not a VPS, given the amount of cost and effort (and monitoring) required. The sites would "just work" versus you working to make the server/sites work on a VPS. The management is 100% offloaded to the host on the semi-dedi/ent plans.

Let's continue the reseller hosting options in your reseller hosting thread: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/web-...tablehost.html

To give some insight on managing hosting,
- I have a personal account at Stablehost, which is less than $40/year.
- And then I have a reseller hosting account, which runs less than $15/month, where I host sites for others.
- I'm ignoring all the dedicated servers and VPS accounts for the conversation. (Which also excludes this site's dedicated server at EuroVPS.)

It sounds like you might do best to have a low-cost shared account for yourself, at either Stablehost or Hawkhost. And then get your friend to use a semi-dedicated account at either Stablehost or Hawkhost. He can pay you for maintaining whatever maintenance/etc that you do, separate from the host expenses. This also insulates you from losing your sites, in case he decides to let his hosting account implode, get hacked, etc.

Possibly forget about having a reseller account entirely. The only reason to get reseller would be if you want him to pay you directly for hosting. And then you can freebie yourself a single cPanel account for your personal sites.

There are some decisions that you have to make, and I don't know that I can advise you further on those.

[faustine]

Thank you for your further insight!

Well, since his boss is paying for the hosting, we can't possibly ask his boss to pay me directly for my own hosting.. so It has to be Reseller hosting then...

And Since I'm also in a way helping him to manage the hosting, so I guess that is the only way we could go next year. Save further bucks for him/his boss too.

My Friend now is pissing at JPC (in the ticket system) for their incompetence.... The actual owner now speaks out! LOL

Ok back to the Reseller thread!

[lordsmurf]

In this scenario...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpmedia

The only reason to get reseller would be if you want him to pay you directly for hosting. And then you can freebie yourself a single cPanel account for your personal sites.

... your friend's boss would pay you as a vendor instead of Stablehost or Hawkhost directly. You'd technically be their host. What you charge, and how you charge (year up front, monthly, etc) is completely up to you. You just give them cPanel access, not WHM access, and that's that. Strictly speaking, you're the hosting company.

That's not the same as

Quote:

Originally Posted by faustine

his boss {paying for} for my own hosting..

Technically speaking, yes, in a way he is paying for your hosting. But in reality, you're buying a product and reselling it (aka reseller hosting!) to the friend/boss. That's really what reseller hosting was intended for, not the wanna-be "hosting companies" that don't own any infrastructure of their own and purely resells the services of others. Reseller hosting is great for small arrangements like the one you have potential to enter into.

Whether the boss wants to deal with you (the "friend"), or go to an established known company, however, is another aspect to consider and deal with accordingly. You being the host may or may not be an option, at which point you'd fall back to simply advising them who to use -- and then getting your own separate shared cPanel account separate from this.

Note that being the reseller means your friend/boss must now come to you for support, not go to the company you're buying from. So you'll need to decide if you want that added burden. And if so, work that into your total costs (whatever you end up charging them).

Does that help to clarify the scenario?

[faustine]

Yea, I get that now.... its morning here.. still not so fully awake!

However I myself do not have the luxury of all the time to help them full time as a "host" per your scenario.

And my friend has to get the invoice from the Actual host that provide us the Reseller package, (to claim back the cost he paid through CC). They are not so big a business, they can't afford too much too.

At best, I can perhaps propose a minimal fee next year like a 10 to 20% on the host package deal and charge it to my friend, and not to his boss. -- as a part time helper to manage the hosting issues -- while still using his boss' paid hosting for myself.

There are bound to be certain times I can't help him, my full time work is a precedent to anything. Also my weekend needed rest! LOL.

Any further views on that, Mr Lordsmurf? I like your nickname~!!

[lordsmurf]

Have them buy the reseller hosting, and get a cPanel account issued to you as payment for helping them -- assuming you trust they'll always pay the bill.

You don't want to rely on a flake, and then lose your website in the process. Thus it may be best to get your own shared hosting account separate from theirs. If they don't need reseller hosting (and I don't see where they do), then they can get one of those semi-dedicated accounts for more resources beyond what a basic/budget shared plan has (like the one you'd use for your own personal or small hobby site).

As pointed out earlier, you'll need to just make a few decisions, based on the options you have available. You found good hosts, so now you just need to decide what to buy from one or both of them, to meet your needs, as well as the needs of your friend (and his boss).

[faustine]

Yap, I doubt they require Reseller hosting, these months I've been asking him if he could get someone else to share JPC's VPS, but due to his busy nature of work... he's unable to!

So looks like I'll try to persuade him to get Stablehost -- Enterprise hosting, then charge his boss with my Basic Shared hosting account cost..

But seriously not sure if the above is workable (with his boss as thrifty as he can get! but he still pay less than what he's paying now to JPC.)

For my own hosting, I'm still torn between Hawkhost / Stablehost myself.....

But Stablehost's offering is definitely more attractive than Hawkhost... after doing a simple comparison myself..

[kpmedia]

This sounds like a plan:
- Stablehost Enterprise for friend/boss, paid by friend/boss.
- Stablehost or Hawkhost shared for yourself, paid for by you.

Then bill your friend $2 or $3 monthly for "consulting" or whatever, paid a year upfront, and use that $$ to buy your shared account. It will either cover everything, or defray the costs. If you can get $4-5/monthly, do that. Maybe even just send a bill for a one-time fee ($50, whatever), and call it good. To sell the fee, show him how much he'll save over the course of a year or even 2-3 years. And it's a "better" company/package for what they need.

Maybe bill the friend, and get him to expense it with his boss.

As long as they're (1) not spamming, and (2) not selling counterfeit goods, then they'll be fine at Stablehost.

There's so many ways to do business.

[faustine]

lol... If wanna charge.. I charge him $120 per year for my service of just manning the hosting part time.

That will cover all of my shared hosting cost.. lol

But still lesser than what he's paying now in total for JPC...... lol due to the Savings at Stablehost.

[lordsmurf]

You could share $20 or $35 of that with us with a Premium Member upgrade.

[faustine]

We'll see! Frankly I also need to go search for Any Singaporean reviews of Hawkhost and Stablehost...

-- merged --

Over my Tracerts & Pings, it may seem that JPC is ok, but somehow the server performance was not very good since they removed the old node.... PDF download was slow....

So it seems the next best bet is Stablehost?
No go to Hawkhost especially the SG DC.. which is supposedly nearer for us.. since we are in Singapore... but it doesn't seem so.
Any more insight about this? Why the pings / tracerts seems ok but the server performance still bad?

[kpmedia]

Continue the tracert/ping topic here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/web-...erts-test.html
I moved all the posts to that thread.

Thanks.