Hi everyone. I have been on this forum for a little while, and much has been explained to me by posting and lurking the forum. I have what I think is a proper combination of equipment to start converting my family's VHS tapes (50-100 to start) to DVD. However, I want to make sure I am going in the right direction, so please offer any suggestions you have!
Firstly, the capture computer:
Pentium 4 3ghz with HT
2GB RAM
160GB HDD (+1TB external)
Windows XP Professional SP3
I also have an older Sony VCR I will be using for dedicated rewinding and fast forwarding of tapes prior to capture.
That is my capture setup. As for editing, encoding, and burning, I will be using my primary computer:
Xeon X5690
24GB RAM
240GB SSD (+2TB Storage)
Windows 7 Ultimate
Avid Media Composer
Adobe Premiere Pro
Sorenson Squeeze
Is there anything you see that I am missing? Still a little unclear on what software to run on the capture computer. Does the all in wonder software come with all I need, or should I be using virtualdub (instead? in addition?) Is there a certain version I should be using?
As for editing, what should I be looking for besides color correction and noise reduction?
I will be using Verbatim printable DVD-R discs (not life/value series)
2Gb that's short (but doable) 4 GB if you can (you'd have to tweak xp i think); disable all programs, antivirus etc..
capture on another (physical) drive, never where there is windows
softs: virtualvcr or vdub
themaster1 is correct, you should capture to a drive that's not the same drive as the Windows OS. If you can install a 2nd drive in the XP computer, that's where you should capture.
2GB for WinXP is OK for capture. XP capture with an ATI 9600 won't use more than 2GB. 3GHz Pent-4 is plenty for ATI.
Some tips:
- Use Virtualdub capture or VirtualVCR. I find Virtualdub easier to work with.
- Start VDub capture with the F6 keyboard key. Use ESC to stop capture. VDub uses the 9600's capture drivers.
- Don't spend too much time on your first test capture. 15 or 20 minutes should be more than enough to reveal any problems or any adjustments you might need.
- Capture to YUY2 lossless compression with huffyuv or Lagarith, 720x480.
- If you have any problems, you can always make a short few seconds of lossless AVI in Virtualdub to post and ask questions. If you need help making a short edit, just ask.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
As for editing, what should I be looking for besides color correction and noise reduction?
IF by "edit" you mean cut and join operations, use lossless media for that work. You can use any editor you want, but color correction and noise reduction are best done in Avisynth and/or Virtualdub. NLE's aren't really adequate for cleaning up/restoration of VHS -- they weren't designed for restoration or repair. Adobe is good for color work, but be careful about nthe way it converts YUV video to RGB, and use lossless media fort that work. Premiere has a problem with many lossless compressors: you'll do better to ask when it comes time for post-processing.
You'll get much more detail about post-processing if you can submit a sample later.
CPU is fine.
RAM is fine.
160gb internal for C: fine, but you shouldn't (maybe cannot) capture to it
1tb internal?
The "never capture to OS drive" rules is from the IDE days. For SATA, it can be fine, if the drive is 7200rpm+ and large enough to have large defragged clean space. If that 1tb external is eSATA, great. That's the second capture drive, assuming the 160gb is IDE (and it probably is, being only a P4). If it's just USB or Firewire, it's not much use to you except to transfer post-capture files.
VCR good.
TBC may be good, watch for faulty chip flicker issues.
ATI card nice, but watch for RFI noise
most s-video cables are quality
FF/REW only deck good idea, save wear-and-tear on JVC
I have the new 6700K CPU, so I wonder who's faster? I'll be running some video benchmarks soon.
I don't like Squeeze. The quality has always been... well... squeezed! Is that the new version? I've not yet seen it, but I'm betting MainConcept/Rovi is still better. That includes the Adobe SDK of MC as well.
The ATI AIW card comes with ATI MMC for capturing MPEG. For AVI capturing, you want VirtualDub with the Huffyuv codec installed.
In addition to color tint/cast issues, and various NR, you need to pay attention to chroma noise and chroma offset. That makes pictures blurry and ugly, and can easily be fixed these days. That wasn't always the case.
Verbatim good.
There's really no need for 4gb of RAM on a WinXP capture box. It only sees 3.5gb anyway, and most of it will sit idle at capture. Capturing is all I/O (drive), slight CPU, and barely any RAM.
Attach a small sample to the forum, and we can give feedback if you're unsure.
alright, I got everything set up and took a sample. Let me know what your trained eyes see for room for improvement. This is a baseline capture; everything was left to default once it was set up, the avt is all defaults, VDub is v1.10.4 with huffyyuv codec captured lossless AVI. The audio sounds pretty bad, I'm wondering if my level is just too high for the line in or if that hiss is something else. See attached. The sound card is a Turtle Beach Riviera, but I have had issues with them before, so it could be a crappy sound card.
I never liked the Riviera cards, only the Santa Cruz.
My monitor is IPS and calibrated. The video is almost too dark. I've not metered it, but a quick visual inspection suggests that darks were crushed to 0. Be sure the input settings are not changing the contrast or brightness. Then again, it could just be the tape.
Was this regular Huffyuv compression? For some reason, my laptop is choking on it, which isn't normal.
I don't like VirtualDub 1.10.x, as there are issues with it. It does nothing for capturing or restoration. I prefer 1.9.x. Ain't broke, not need to fix it.
There's definitely hiss, yes. It's a bit higher than normal, so it could be wiring, the audio card itself, the VCR (or VCR settings), or even the tape. If the tape, you'd have to capture more tapes, both commercial and non-commercial, and compare results from them all. If the hiss is identical on all, then you know it's your hardware.
I never liked the Riviera cards, only the Santa Cruz.
My monitor is IPS and calibrated. The video is almost too dark. I've not metered it, but a quick visual inspection suggests that darks were crushed to 0. Be sure the input settings are not changing the contrast or brightness. Then again, it could just be the tape.
Was this regular Huffyuv compression? For some reason, my laptop is choking on it, which isn't normal.
I don't like VirtualDub 1.10.x, as there are issues with it. It does nothing for capturing or restoration. I prefer 1.9.x. Ain't broke, not need to fix it.
There's definitely hiss, yes. It's a bit higher than normal, so it could be wiring, the audio card itself, the VCR (or VCR settings), or even the tape. If the tape, you'd have to capture more tapes, both commercial and non-commercial, and compare results from them all. If the hiss is identical on all, then you know it's your hardware.
I greatly reduced the hiss by playing with some of the audio settings. I think it was being boosted too much. I agree it doesn't look too pleasing at those levels. There is a massive improvement by bumping up contrast a few points on the avt while dropping brightness one.
I will obtain a copy of 1.9 to try out too and see how that goes. The compression was actually huffyuv 3.0 to 1 I believe. I had set that by mistake rather than lossless. I will retry tonight.
Ps. I was playing a 4 hour tape that has been rewritten multiple times and there was hiss through the entire thing. Is that typical of 4 hour tapes or rewritten tapes?
Did you capture as RGB? Your video sample is RGB32. You should capture VHS as YUY2 with huffyuv or Lagarith.
The video is telecined (hard 3:2 pulldown). If you plan on deinterlacing (I don't lnow why people insist on it), telecined video shouldn't be deinterlaced. You have to use inverse telecine if you want to restore the original film rate of 23.976 fps progressive.
Looks a little dark, but movies often are. Can be fixed later.
Tapes re-used several times have color and audio corruption.
Did you capture as RGB? Your video sample is RGB32. You should capture VHS as YUY2 with huffyuv or Lagarith.
The video is telecined (hard 3:2 pulldown). If you plan on deinterlacing (I don't lnow why people insist on it), telecined video shouldn't be deinterlaced. You have to use inverse telecine if you want to restore the original film rate of 23.976 fps progressive.
Looks a little dark, but movies often are. Can be fixed later.
Tapes re-used several times have color and audio corruption.
where would the RGB setting be? I know I selected YUY2 in one set of menus, is there another? Also, can you explain telecine vs inverse telecine? Does it make a difference for home videos?
lastly, are you saying that I should be using the huffyuv (3.0:1 or something) compression, since it is lossless, rather than the 1.0:1 no compression?
in the capture settings> Video> Format> YUY2 (never put rgb) 720x480
huff codec: predict left / predict left (always suggest RGB = Unticked)
And you're good to go
So I did another test capture (720x480 YUY2 huffyuv). I attached it below. This time I tweaked the AVT as well as contrast/brightness/saturation in VDub. Let me know what you see. I feel like the hue is slightly off (default), but I couldn't get it to look noticeably better so I left it alone. I also tested the audio by capturing with the audio cable to line in disconnected at one point, and sure enough the hiss remained, so I am blaming the sound card. I ordered a replacement.
Thanks for the new sample. Haven't had time to go over it yet. The following notes are for the earlier ca.avi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
I know I selected YUY2 in one set of menus, is there another?
My error. As it happened, I used an ancient software app to get statistics for the avi and it erroneously reports some 4:2:2 color codecs as RGB. Not correct. Your ca.AVI is YUY2 with normal huffyuv lossless compression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
can you explain telecine vs inverse telecine? Does it make a difference for home videos?
Some form of telecine is used to convert movie film frame rates to broadcast standard or DVD/BluRay frame rates. Removing the telecine "combing" effects that you see with 2 of every 5 frames (for NTSC) is called inverse telecine. You can call the removal "reverse telecine" if you like, but inverse telecine is the usual phrase because of methods used to remove the double-image in telecined frames.
Movie cameras that shoot film speed don't apply telecine when shooting. Home camera videos in VHS, Hi8, Dv, etc., are interlaced, not telecined. HD cameras can shoot interlaced or progressive video, not telecined video -- many modern cameras can shoot progressive video at film rates (23.976/24fps).
If you record TV shows with your VCR, be aware that TV shows that originate as film are broadcast (and recorded) as telecined video if you're in NTSC land. In PAL land broadcast is usually interlaced, but many odd forms of pulldown or field blending are applied in PAL country for conversion to NTSC, and vice versa.
Concerning the ca.vi sample:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
I agree it doesn't look too pleasing at those levels. There is a massive improvement by bumping up contrast a few points on the avt while dropping brightness one.
That's unusual, since most VHS captures would benefit instead by raising brightness and lowering contrast. But that depends on the tape. As it is, your capture is dim, and dark detail is crushed. "Crushed" means that data describing details of dark or near-dark detail no longer exists. Gamma (midtones) are also low, which affects color balance.
It's possible to use filters like contrast masks to pull up some of the dark stuff, but this also reveals the darker crushed areas which, as usual with hard clipping or crushing, contain only noisy garbage. Using an uncalibrated monitor might make your vids look a certain way in your own living room, but they won't look that way to other viewers. Best to use Virtualdub's capture histogram during capture prep and setup to check for video-safe RGB 16-235 input levels. This is difficult to judge by eye alone.
Mild but visible smearing during motion are the bain of players with dnr, which used relatively primitive denoising methods. The worse the noise is on the tape, the more aggressively the filters behave, so noisy and blurry motion are rather typical for many of those players. Some are more blurry than others. Many users turn off dnr during capture, preferring more sophisticated post-process denoising. But again, much depends on the tapes, the player, and the level of original noise.
The glitches mentioned are pretty common with analog capture, even with the best of gear. Aged or poorly recorded tapes don't help. There are other problems that show up less frequently. These bad guys are sometimes easy to fix, sometimes not.
One of the bad guys is shown below in a 2X blowup of part of a frame in the original ca.avi. Notice the noise pattern on the side of the guy's face, in his hair, on the back of his clothing, and in the girl's face. The fine cross-hatch pattern is not grain; some call it FM hash, or dot crawl, or CUE (chroma upsampling error). To me it looks like FM noise. It could be in the cables, the player, or the capture card. If this type of noise exists on all your captures, you have a hardware problem.
It's possible to smooth crosshatching or dot crawl, as shown below. I used a filter called Checkmate in Avisynth.
All such filters soften images somewhat, but there are many sharpeners around. Other than using inverse telecine for the mp4 sample attached, this is the only correction I had time to attempt.
Below: less common is bad chroma ghosting, shown here. The image is frame 116 from the original AVI. Pink arrows indicate areas of strong discoloration, which aren't difficult to spot. The color "ghosts" are from earlier frames in the preceding camera shot. The discolorations persist for about 8 frames.
Compare colors in the above frame 116 with colors in frame 126, 10 frames later, below.
Below, the bottom half from two original frames, 127 and 130. The upper image is from frame 127. The lowwer image is from frame 130. In this frame sequence, a dark-robed arm is moving upward from the bottom of the frame. On the right lower edge of frame 127 you can see a small part of a white hand as it starts moving up -- by frame 130, the raised hand and robed arm are in full view.
In the upper image, notice 3 objects in the middle of the picture: the two slightly closed hands of the girl in the middle, the metal tray beside her hands, and the other boy's hand on the edge of the table. In the upper image a pink arrow points to a reddish ghost of the table's wood as the arm is raised and obscures the table.
In the lower image 3 frames later, the raised arm has three main ghost images indicated by the pink arrows: the girl's hands, the metal tray, and the other boy's hand and table edge. These chroma ghosts last for about 4 frames.
Similar effects are visible elsewhere. They are likely the result of sloppy tape production, which is not uncommon (I can testify to that!). But check more than one tape to see if these effects occur elsewhere.
The attached ca_sample_ivtc.mp4 is an inverse telecined version of ca.avi. It's progressive 23.976 fps. Except for removing telecine and smoothing some hash noise, I did no other corrections. Because most smoothing filters are temporal in nature, often the very first and very last frames don't look filtered.
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mnewxcv (12-02-2015)
So I did another test capture (720x480 YUY2 huffyuv). I attached it below. This time I tweaked the AVT as well as contrast/brightness/saturation in VDub. Let me know what you see.
Thanks for the new sample.
The avi is too dark and contrasty, has a chiaroscuro effect. Darks are crushed, and there's hard black clipping. A lot of shadow detail is destroyed. Midtones are suppressed, which affects color perception. Most of the time it looks over saturated, especially the reds. A YUV histogram tells the story. The pink arrow in the histogram below points to crushed blacks and dark detail being clipped in the left-hand unsafe region:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
I feel like the hue is slightly off (default), but I couldn't get it to look noticeably better so I left it alone.
Not sure which image controls you used in VDub capture. The appropriate filters are in "Video..." -> "Levels". These work in YUV and usually hook into the capture driver's controls. The filters in the "Filters chain" area shouldn't be used, as many work in RGB.
It's not possible to get a perfect VHS capture in all respects. Precise color adjustment during capture is too primitive to be useful. VHS changes color balance every few minutes. Anyway, the signal appears to be too green in the midtones, but not in every shot. You can't make that specific an adjustment during capture without a $2000 studio unit and capturing scenes separately. There are post processing color filters available that are a ton more sophisticated than brightness, contrast, and hue.
The same goes for levels. Analog source changes levels again and again, within a few camera shots. It's far easier to set up a worst-case scenario for a tape, which means adjusting to a suitable range between RGB 16-235 during capture. Set up brightness and contrast to keep the worst scenes from overshooting the spectrum at extremes. Everything can be readjusted later -- that's what post processing is for. Brightness controls black levels. Contrast controls bright levels.
You are using an uncalibrated monitor. Or else, a monitor that's not properly adjusted. The standards for video work are well defined and used everywhere. Try starting at this free website: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/. Free manual test graphics are klunky, but better than nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
I also tested the audio by capturing with the audio cable to line in disconnected at one point, and sure enough the hiss remained, so I am blaming the sound card. I ordered a replacement.
Let's hope you get it set to your satisfaction. I've been through a few sound cards myself.
The following users thank sanlyn for this useful post:
mnewxcv (12-02-2015)
I guess I need some help turning all the information you shared into behaviors. I am actually using a calibrated monitor already. I think I need to spend more time practicing though so I can train my eyes about what is correct.
1. Is the chiaroscuro effect a result of too high contrast or too low? Is there a tool (other than my eyes) for me to monitor if my contrast is too high or low?
2. Are crushed darks and black clipping the result of the same cause? Is that because the brightness is off?
3. What is suppressing the midtones?
4. Is there a histogram I can use during capture (or from a paused still) to help set my color/saturation/hue prior to capturing? I tried using the histogram feature within VDub but it did not work. I will try another version when I get home.
5. I was using the levels feature, yes.
6. I am comfortable doing color correction in post (in NLE), I just want to get the best source to work with.
7. "It's far easier to set up a worst-case scenario for a tape, which means adjusting to a suitable range between RGB 16-235 during capture. Set up brightness and contrast to keep the worst scenes from overshooting the spectrum at extremes." Where can I monitor this during capture? Or do I do a test capture and analyze where it falls, adjust, redo, until I get it right, then do the full capture?
8. I ordered an audigy 2 ZS. I'm hoping it is adequate. Suppose it can't be any worse!
Thank you for your patience. There are some things I can call myself an expert in, yet this is not one of them, so I appreciate the expertise you are willing to share. I am fully committed to practicing until I master this task.
I don't see an edit button, couple more questions.
9. In the huffyuv configuration window, YUY2 compression method is "predict median (best)", what should RGB compression method be? It has been on "predict gradient (best)", should it be "convert to YUY2"?
10. under the video drop down, do I want "extend luma black point" as well as white point checked? they are not.
I noticed I had R3 turned on on the JVC. I turned it off now.
I noticed in my video settings (before going to file -> capture avi), my codec settings were not huffyuv YUY2. I changed that to huffyuv YUY2 now. Not sure if it makes a difference outside of the capture settings (which have been huffyuv YUY2).
Figured out historgram only works with preview, not overlay! I will upload a new capture with the video set in accordance to the histogram.
-- merged --
theres a capture with contrast/brightness set in accordance to histogram, and color +2 on AVT. Default levels for Virtualdub.
...the hiss remained, so I am blaming the sound card.
FWIW: many older sound cards, especially the generics, had high noise floors. Also, some MB sound sections were noisy. Inside a computer case is a tough environment for audio.
Also, the linear track audio on VHS could hve a high noise floor.
theres a capture with contrast/brightness set in accordance to histogram, and color +2 on AVT. Default levels for Virtualdub.
Thanks you for the new capture. Now that we have a better idea of how the tape really looks without numerous enhancements, it becomes clear why you're having a such a struggle with it.
The tape seems to have no contrast, no color density, no sharp or fine detail, does indeed have crushed darks from its production that are not your fault (but settings dark too low makes it worse), has no shadow detail beyond some general murk.....In other words, congratulations. You have what we in this clinically insane activity call a Problem Tape (aka Tape From Hell, etc., etc.).
But you can still work with it. First, let me ask? Is this a retail tape, or is it a tape that was recorded off TV? Some retail taps are actually produced at slow 6-hour speeds (I once had a couple of those. Ghastly). A slow speed tape would offer more clues, especially since you're using a JVC player.
It's getting late here, so I'll have to answer your other 20 questions later. But you did figure out that the histogram works in Preview mode before I could post the solution. Good work. It took me two months to figure that one.
A last point: With black borders in a video, that black border will always show up as a "spike" in the left-hand red area of the histogram. It's usually a small, thin spike, not a sky scraper. The YUV histogram I posted earlier was made with the black borders removed. It's when a stream or even a flood of red shows up in either side that you have dark or bright clipping. You might have noticed when viewing the capture histogram that there was indeed a very tall left-hand spike the size of the Washingon Monument -- that big guy is where blacks got crushed during the production or broadcast of that tape. You might also notice that just to left of that spike along the borderline is a tiny little "tail" that trails off to the left. If you can keep that big fella's tail at the left-hand red side by lowering brightness to keep it close (but not in it), and increase contrast to get just a tad closer to the right-hand bright side (but not too much, or those chapel windows will turn into hot spots when they enter the frame), you'd have a better looking capture.
Take a closer look at a movie when you go to the cinema. Don't trust TV for color lessons, every broadcast will vary. You'll soon get the idea that movie makers seldom go to extremes of dark or bright. To put it simply, the extremes just don't look real.
I'll post more tomorrow. Thanks for your indulgence.
Thanks you for the new capture. Now that we have a better idea of how the tape really looks without numerous enhancements, it becomes clear why you're having a such a struggle with it.
The tape seems to have no contrast, no color density, no sharp or fine detail, does indeed have crushed darks from its production that are not your fault (but settings dark too low makes it worse), has no shadow detail beyond some general murk.....In other words, congratulations. You have what we in this clinically insane activity call a Problem Tape (aka Tape From Hell, etc., etc.).
But you can still work with it. First, let me ask? Is this a retail tape, or is it a tape that was recorded off TV? Some retail taps are actually produced at slow 6-hour speeds (I once had a couple of those. Ghastly). A slow speed tape would offer more clues, especially since you're using a JVC player.
It is a retail tape, and not a very old one. I guess I had higher expectations for a quality capture from this tape because of that, but was definitely wrong to assume that. I am attaching another capture of another retail tape, adjusted for contrast/brightness and slight color boost.(let me know if you think I over-saturated it)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn
It's getting late here, so I'll have to answer your other 20 questions later. But you did figure out that the histogram works in Preview mode before I could post the solution. Good work. It took me two months to figure that one.
A last point: With black borders in a video, that black border will always show up as a "spike" in the left-hand red area of the histogram. It's usually a small, thin spike, not a sky scraper. The YUV histogram I posted earlier was made with the black borders removed. It's when a stream or even a flood of red shows up in either side that you have dark or bright clipping. You might have noticed when viewing the capture histogram that there was indeed a very tall left-hand spike the size of the Washingon Monument -- that big guy is where blacks got crushed during the production or broadcast of that tape. You might also notice that just to left of that spike along the borderline is a tiny little "tail" that trails off to the left. If you can keep that big fella's tail at the left-hand red side by lowering brightness to keep it close (but not in it), and increase contrast to get just a tad closer to the right-hand bright side (but not too much, or those chapel windows will turn into hot spots when they enter the frame), you'd have a better looking capture.
Take a closer look at a movie when you go to the cinema. Don't trust TV for color lessons, every broadcast will vary. You'll soon get the idea that movie makers seldom go to extremes of dark or bright. To put it simply, the extremes just don't look real.
I'll post more tomorrow. Thanks for your indulgence.
thanks again. The more I play around with it, the more confident I become. The histogram was such a crucial thing. I attached a capture of a retail video as well as a capture of a home movie (from 1988 mind you) so you can see what I am working with.
Is the chiaroscuro effect a result of too high contrast or too low?
It's less a matter of "contrast" than it is the absence of midrange content and an emphasis on a wide difference between dark and light objects. Photographically you can get that effect by using a single directional light unit with no fill lights or background lighting. Some people call it "high key" lighting, but that's incorrect -- much of The Wizard Of Oz used high key lighting.
The grayscale image below is a simplified example of chiaroscuro. You can't really say it has "high" contrast, as the brightest pixel in the RGB photo is around RGB 200, well below RGB 235 or 255. Rather, you see brights and darks but not much in between. There is so little detail in the darker shadows that they look as dark as the unlighted background.
About the histograms above: notice how the YUV and RGB histograms resemble histograms of your earlier captures, with a big spike at the left but not as much data extending to the right. Also notice that in the YUV histogram the spike is contracted at the RGB 16 low-end limit -- but in the RGB histogram at the right, the same spike is at RGB 0. This illustrates that video YUV 16-235 is expanded to 0-255 in RGB display (Seems odd, I know, but that's the way the system works).
If a YUV video histogram extends all the way into the unsafe borders, it's already RGB 0-255, so where will the extreme darks and brights go when expanded? Answer: Nowhere. They get get clipped or crushed. We don't care if a black border is at RGB 0 because that's where a black border is supposed to be. Many TV's don't even display RGB 0-255, as they're designed for a bandwidth of 16-235 for luma and 16-240 for chroma. A lot of TV's actually make black borders look more like "lighter black" (RGB 16). When most TV's try to display RGB 255 or brighter, the brightest brights will glow or exhibit edge ghosting (overshoot). In the YUV histogram the U and V channels (red and blue) are straight lines in the middle: that's because the grayscale photo has no chroma data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
Is there a tool (other than my eyes) for me to monitor if my contrast is too high or low?
Your eyes are usually the first reference point. If you see that the shadows are nothing more than black gooey blobs, you can be pretty sure your black levels (brightness) are too low. If the blackest blacks or colors look obviously gray or washed out, black levels are too high. IF you see the brightest details as glowing neon hot spots or you see bright details blending and disappearing, brights are being clipped. The tools used to verify what's happening are histograms, waveform monitors, and vectorscopes -- all of which are in Avisynth, Virtualdub, and more advanced NLE's. When elements of a histogram are smashing against the left border, blacks are being crushed. If smashing against the right side or climbing up the walls, brights are clipping. Elements climbing up the border walls are a sign that the video's content exceeds the luma and/or chroma capabilities of the medium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
I guess I need some help turning all the information you shared into behaviors. I am actually using a calibrated monitor already. I think I need to spend more time practicing though so I can train my eyes about what is correct.
If you made adjustments with a colorimeter and its software, it should be close to optimal. Pro's advise to work in subdued light and to take a break after 30 minutes by viewing something else (watch TV, read a magazine, etc.). If you watch the same scene for too long a time, your brain compensates for too-dark, too-light, or color imbalance by making things appear "normal".
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
Are crushed darks and black clipping the result of the same cause? Is that because the brightness is off?
With reference to contrast, darks are crushed because brightness (black level) is too low. Technically, contrast refers to brights but as most people use it, they are referring to a "contrast range" or a range of brights and darks. So in general layman's terms, high contrast usually means a wide range of dark to light, and low contrast means a narrow range.
It's confusing because many contrast controls don't expand the brights. Rather, they stretch the data from the middle in both directions, making darks darker and brights brighter at the same time, or vice-versa. Some contrast controls come in three flavors: white level contrast affect the brights, black-level contrast affects the darks, and just "contrast" does the stretching or contracting business. Helps to have a histogram to show how they're working, as a lot of NLE's do whatever the designer thought was cool. The Contrast and brightness controls in graphics cards like the ATI's operate according to the standard brightness (black level) and contrast (bright level) arrangement. As you probably found, the two controls interact a bit so you have to do some fiddling. The brightness and contrast controls in expensive PA-100 proc amps and others work the same way. How the same controls in media players work is up for grabs. VLC player's controls are so quirky they're useless.
It's true that a PC displays sRGB 0-255 and can make "TV RGB 16" look a little gray. But media players differ. MPC and MPC-BE expand 16-235 to the way they'd look on TV. VLC Player doesn't. On a properly calibrated monitor in correct low ambient light, you barely notice the difference. Another difference between a PC monitor and a TV is that video looks brighter on a TV because of different luminance and saturation curves. This is why many videophiles don't like watching Hollywood movies on PC's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
What is suppressing the midtones?
With reference to those first movie captures, I'd have to say that the tape is just a very poor transfer. You see an obvious difference between that tape and your other sources. Midtones can also look suppressed with over saturation. The usual saturation control is very general: it saturates everything, lights, mids, darks. Many contrast controls that are the stretching type have a similar effect: the stretching takes mid-level pixels and literally stretches their values both both ways, displacing and lowering the overall amount of midtone data that was right across the middle of the histogram. ColorMill and other advanced image controls let you saturate the three ranges all at the same time or individually.
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Originally Posted by mnewxcv
"It's far easier to set up a worst-case scenario for a tape, which means adjusting to a suitable range between RGB 16-235 during capture. Set up brightness and contrast to keep the worst scenes from overshooting the spectrum at extremes." Where can I monitor this during capture? Or do I do a test capture and analyze where it falls, adjust, redo, until I get it right, then do the full capture?
Do the best you can during capture. Because of the nature of VHS, it won't be perfect. The main idea is to avoid mistakes that can't be corrected later, like hard clipping and crushing. I usually move the tape back and forth, sample a couple of scenes briefly, then set controls for the worst case.
Hue is another story. It's a non-specific control and doesn't work at all like RGB. If you have bluish blacks, green midtones, reddish brights, and over saturated reds, all at the same time (very common with VHS), a Hue control won't fix those problems without screwing up other elements. The PA-100 proc amp has two Hue controls, one each for U and V. Better, but still not as workable as post. Every time I made a hue change in VHS capture I ran into long segments that made me regret it. Whatever you do during capture, you're stuck with it unless you recapture.
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Originally Posted by mnewxcv
I ordered an audigy 2 ZS. I'm hoping it is adequate. Suppose it can't be any worse!
Audigy ain't studio quality (neither is Turtle Beach), but it seems to be a decent compromise. I'm using old SB Audigy's from 2004/2006. If you remember that VHS audio isn't so wonderful and varies from tape to tape and player to player, it's a toss-up. I usually audition audio with a Grado SR-80 headphone plugged into the card's output. The best audio I've heard from tapes came from my AG-1980 and my now deceased JVC 8600.
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Originally Posted by mnewxcv
In the huffyuv configuration window, YUY2 compression method is "predict median (best)", what should RGB compression method be? It has been on "predict gradient (best)", should it be "convert to YUY2"?
Use "predict median (best)" and "predict gradient (best)". The YUY2 conversion is slower and isn't lossless.
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Originally Posted by mnewxcv
under the video drop down, do I want "extend luma black point" as well as white point checked?
Leave them unchecked. They don't work consistently and can do things you don't want.
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Originally Posted by mnewxcv
I noticed I had R3 turned on on the JVC. I turned it off now.
Sometimes R3 helps, sometimes not. Depends on the tape. R3 is primitive by today's standards.
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Originally Posted by mnewxcv
I noticed in my video settings (before going to file -> capture avi), my codec settings were not huffyuv YUY2. I changed that to huffyuv YUY2 now. Not sure if it makes a difference outside of the capture settings (which have been huffyuv YUY2).
Make those settings in the capture app. The two setting groups are used separately.
I made some notes on your latest captures, but I have some chores to finish. Back later.
I'll be running some video benchmarks soon.
I will upload a new capture with the video set in accordance to the histogram.
