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  #1  
03-15-2016, 09:16 PM
VideoTechMan VideoTechMan is offline
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I've read alot of the older posts here in regards to computer builds for various editing jobs, but with the posts being several years old, PC components change faster than changing socks.

I've read LS's post in another thread on his use of the Skylake CPU's for high end work. I've converted my previous i7 3930K system to a DAW based setup so now working on planning a new build for all SD/HD video work....possibly photo work too.

My question would be, would it be ideal to go with a Haswell-E based setup that uses I believe the x99 chipset, or go with a Skylake based system with DDR4 RAM? Taking LS's advice into consideration in raw clock speed over cores, it may narrow down to which CPU I may go with. The i7 5930k also supports DDR4 RAM.

I am thinking of going with the Adobe CC, and to use other apps like Photoshop and After Effects. I have no plans to do any 4K stuff anytime soon, as even alot of the 1080p HD equipment is still quite expensive. I'm not really sure though about Adobe's subscription model, it feels like paying another monthly bill as compared to having it on physical media that I can use offline.

I can pretty much figure out the other components for the build, and thinking of going with a case that has plenty of room to add drive arrays should that need arise, which it might when working with component based video and 1080p material. And Windows 7 is still my OS of choice, no interest in 8 nor 10.
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  #2  
03-15-2016, 11:46 PM
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I'll post more later, but that Skylake is awesome. I've mentioned it in several threads on several sites. I'd not invest any $$$ into older chip types, as those will surely be deprecated soon.

The biggest advantage of Skylake isn't just speed, but power consumption, and thus heat output. It's cool, older chips are hot. When you encode video, which often eats 100% CPU, that can mean the difference between being cooled with a ceiling fan, and sweating your clothes even with the AC on. Trust me, I've been there. Anything to cut heat, and help the UPS and utility costs is desired.

I still use Adobe CS4, and have no issues. I can do everything I need and want. You can find one used for cheap, last I saw.

I suggest you run the components by us. Having just built 3 new systems, I have input.

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  #3  
03-16-2016, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I'll post more later, but that Skylake is awesome. I've mentioned it in several threads on several sites. I'd not invest any $$$ into older chip types, as those will surely be deprecated soon.

The biggest advantage of Skylake isn't just speed, but power consumption, and thus heat output. It's cool, older chips are hot. When you encode video, which often eats 100% CPU, that can mean the difference between being cooled with a ceiling fan, and sweating your clothes even with the AC on. Trust me, I've been there. Anything to cut heat, and help the UPS and utility costs is desired.

I still use Adobe CS4, and have no issues. I can do everything I need and want. You can find one used for cheap, last I saw.

I suggest you run the components by us. Having just built 3 new systems, I have input.
Sounds good LS, i'll look for more of your input. Many of the posts in other forums regarding CPU/chipset configurations focus more on gaming than video work. And i'm all for saving power as much as possible.

If CS4 can handle 1080p video without issue, then I will consider using that since I still have a copy of it. CS4 I believe does MPE too if memory serves. I'll work on a parts list sometime this week or so and post what I am proposing.
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03-17-2016, 07:14 AM
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MPE?
It has AME (Adobe Media Encoder). Is that what you refer to?

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  #5  
03-23-2016, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
MPE?
It has AME (Adobe Media Encoder). Is that what you refer to?
Mercury Playback Engine (MPE) is what Premiere uses with certain graphics cards (nVidia GPU's) when scrubbing through the timeline saving CPU cycles.

-- merged --

Hey LS, I do have a quick question for you. What case are you using for your Skylake system? I had thought about checking out a case from Case Labs but their cases can be pretty pricey, depending on what kind and options you go with. Plus is that the case is built in the US unlike many that's made in China. I know you mentioned the Antec 302 being a decent case, which I have one that's housing my DAW system.

Basically would like a case that has room where I can add several hard drives, possibly RAID some of them for the sake of working with HD content.

I'm looking at motherboard and chipset options, so far only seeing the Z170 based chipsets with 1151 LGA socket. Still a fairly new platform so stability is a must.

Haven't decided on GPU yet, so will research on that soon.
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  #6  
03-27-2016, 02:19 AM
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- Antec 300 II case, remove top fan, no front fans, left back fan
- Intel 6700K CPU (Skylake), no overclocking yet
- Noctua DH14 heatsink
- Cooler Master v550 PSU with Noctua P12 fan replacement for silence (run power direct to motherboard connection)
- GSkill RAM 2400 not overclocked beyond 2400
- Asrock Extreme 7+ motherboard, fans set to silent mode
- Samsung 1tb EVO 850 SSD
- Seagate 4tb SATA hard drive
- several SATA burners
- no graphics card added, using Intel graphics
- no other cards at all, actually
- lots of USB port connections added to use most motherboard extensions
- lots of eSATA connections on Intel/non-Asrock SATA ports

I need a new KVM. The old one won't work properly anymore. It started to give me fits a week ago. The tech has changed too much. I'll keep you posted on what I get. Perhaps let me be the guinea pig here.

The case is vast, you can do what you want. At worst, you need power supply.

Did I miss anything?

The system is cool, fast, stable, quiet.

Only the KVM is pissing me off now. I keep having to unplug/replug the USB, My KVM is hub-based, and modern motherboards don't play nice. It's not the USB itself, as my externals seem to be fine, and can connect over network. I don't know if it was sudden onset, the result of new drivers, or if I just wasn't paying close attention (not swapping as much).

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  #7  
03-27-2016, 08:11 AM
VideoTechMan VideoTechMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
- Antec 300 II case, remove top fan, no front fans, left back fan
- Intel 6700K CPU (Skylake), no overclocking yet
- Noctua DH14 heatsink
- Cooler Master v550 PSU with Noctua P12 fan replacement for silence (run power direct to motherboard connection)
- GSkill RAM 2400 not overclocked beyond 2400
- Asrock Extreme 7+ motherboard, fans set to silent mode
- Samsung 1tb EVO 850 SSD
- Seagate 4tb SATA hard drive
- several SATA burners
- no graphics card added, using Intel graphics
- no other cards at all, actually
- lots of USB port connections added to use most motherboard extensions
- lots of eSATA connections on Intel/non-Asrock SATA ports

I need a new KVM. The old one won't work properly anymore. It started to give me fits a week ago. The tech has changed too much. I'll keep you posted on what I get. Perhaps let me be the guinea pig here.

The case is vast, you can do what you want. At worst, you need power supply.

Did I miss anything?

The system is cool, fast, stable, quiet.

Only the KVM is pissing me off now. I keep having to unplug/replug the USB, My KVM is hub-based, and modern motherboards don't play nice. It's not the USB itself, as my externals seem to be fine, and can connect over network. I don't know if it was sudden onset, the result of new drivers, or if I just wasn't paying close attention (not swapping as much).
I'm guessing the KVM you have been using was the Starview right? I've read in different places that some KVM's can be problematic, especially the DVI based ones. For my XP boxes and general PC (coupled with a 3rd XP machine) I just stuck with the VGA based KVM since none of those PC's are graphic critical. So far its working well for me.

With the PSU, many have said to use around a 650-750 watt, but it largely depends on what components are in the system.

Since you are using the internal graphics of Skylake, I would say that its working pretty well for you? I know video editing in most cases doesn't really require a high end GPU; if doing effects like AE, then a discrete GPU would work better in that case. I know some pro sites recommend the Quadro cards, but they are way overpriced and alot of the modern GPU's can easily beat the Quadro's by a mile. I think those cards are only useful if working with 10-bit video.

I'm betting the 1TB SSD for the system drive costs a good penny; depending on how many programs are installed to that drive. I've used mostly 120-250GB SSD drives and haven't used up all the space on it, yet anyway.

I'll check out the motherboard and the RAM, those two items are usually the most tricky when it comes to compatibility. I don't care to overclock the RAM, and CPU I usually leave it stock. When I break in a new system I run Memtest for about 24 hours and afterward Prime95 for a couple of hours to ensure the system will be stable when doing heavy processing (and to make sure the cooling stuff is doing its job).

As far as the case, usually the front fans are for cooling the hard drives as the air goes to the back. Since your system stays pretty cool then its not much of a problem to omit the front fans. Many gamers load up their cases with LED based fans all over the place but since I am not a PC gamer, I don't need a light show for my case, just a strong functional workstation.

I appreciate you taking the time to share your system specs, I will work on a list soon and present it here. Who knows, I may be even inclined to do a build thread in putting it all together.
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  #8  
03-27-2016, 02:50 PM
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This is a related discussion you should read: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/comp...d-improve.html
SSD is good for the scratch/temp space as well. It's not just OS and programs.

1tb is about $325. It's not a chea[p HDD price, but it's not unaffordable.

Don't use Prime95 on a Skylake. You'll crash it. That one program is an Intel Skylake errata, and a specific operation (from that software), in a specific prime, causes a panic. I think it's a really stupid/useless test anyway, as it's not real world. I'd rather test i/o by copying 2tb of ISO, CPU by feeding it a batch of complex video projects, and RAM with a burn-in test. January link: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...plex-workloads. To date, only Prime95 has shown an issue.

I don't want a light show, nor a wind tunnel. Computers are like kids, and should be seen and not heard (to quote an amusing cliche). When I restore audio, the only 'whoosh' I should hear is the noise that I'm about to zap.

The Extreme7+ is so large (referring to SATA nd USB) that it has both Intel and Asrock drivers. Each has strengths. I like it.

Modern graphics cards are for playing video games. My computer is a tool, not a toy. And the tool is specifically for video. From what I've read, even CAD can do decent on the Skylake Intel GPU. I'd only mess with a quadro if doing advanced graphics work (CG, etc) was your profession, and this is a work tool. For me, for video, I've had zero problems doing anything I need, HD or SD.

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  #9  
03-27-2016, 04:14 PM
VideoTechMan VideoTechMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
This is a related discussion you should rad: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/comp...d-improve.html
SSD is good for the scratch/temp space as well. It's not just OS and programs.
1tb is about $325. It's not a chea[p HDD price, but it's not unaffordable.
True, and prices drop everyday. May consider that option. Do you use the 1TB on your system for OS and programs only or with scratch/cache files also?

Quote:
Don't use Prime95 on a Skylake. You'll crash it. That one program is an Intel Skylake errata, and a specific operation (from that software), in a specific prime, causes a panic. I think it's a really stupid/useless test anyway, as it's not real world. I'd rather test i/o by copying 2tb of ISO, CPU by feeding it a batch of complex video projects, and RAM with a burn-in test. January link: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...plex-workloads. To date, only Prime95 has shown an issue.
I've read there was a certain version of Prime that caused the CPU to run hotter than it should and could cause problems. Can't afford that on a $400+ CPU. Thanks for the link, I will read into that. I think many people use Prime to stress test new systems, but I am sure there are better ways.The complex video projects sounds like a great idea. May have to consider that once I get the system built and give it some test projects.

Quote:
I don't want a light show, nor a wind tunnel. Computers are like kids, and should be seen and not heard (to quote an amusing cliche). When I restore audio, the only 'whoosh' I should hear is the noise that I'm about to zap.

The Extreme7+ is so large (referring to SATA nd USB) that it has both Intel and Asrock drivers. Each has strengths. I like it.

Modern graphics cards are for playing video games. My computer is a tool, not a toy. And the tool is specifically for video. From what I've read, even CAD can do decent on the Skylake Intel GPU. I'd only mess with a quadro if doing advanced graphics work (CG, etc) was your profession, and this is a work tool. For me, for video, I've had zero problems doing anything I need, HD or SD.
I get pretty amused at the number of gamers in different forums that are so addicted to SLI/Crossfire setups, light shows that would make Santa jealous. But for serious work as you've said all that bling is unnecessary and can be distracting. I've read that the Quadros are really overpriced for a slower GPU, but for certain animation type work it would make more sense. Plus that kind of work usually entails of a dual Xeon system. I do have interest in getting into CG/animation work as I gain more experience so that could be a good option down the line.

Some good stuff here LS, i'm going to work on a component list and post it here soon. Btw, since you have multiple SATA drives do you use them individually or run them in a RAID setup? If the built in graphics on the Skylake is suited for HD (1080p work) then that can save me a bundle in not needing a discrete GPU card, not to mention a cooler system as well.
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  #10  
03-27-2016, 05:20 PM
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My SSD is C:\

I use it for:
- OS
- installed software
- sometimes temp video files: intermediary Huffyuv files, to try and pick up a few fps on i/o intensive operations like stream copy in VirtualDub
- scratch/temp/swap for everything (OS, software)

Some SSD purists are ridiculous, baby the drive, and would cry about it being used for video files. But it's a tool, not a nerd toy to put on an alter to worship. If it tanks, I buy a new one, and restore data from backup.

Some motherboard vendors have made their own errata fixes to the CPU, but consequences (ie, CPU slowdowns) are not known. My rule is easy: ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't need Prime95, I need video restoration/encoding tools. I enjoy non-financial non-video math about as much as I do the dentist. That tool is useless to me.

I hate lights so much that I often cover useless lights with black electrical tape. Anything in line of site or corner of my eye is a distraction. I'm about to start covering some HDD LEDs, because they are stupidly/unreasonably bright.

Spinning drives are noisy period, however, so I often set them on the floor, away from the desk. Never on the desk. If I could, I'd get a really long eSATA cable and set them in the next room altogether! Storm windows will be added in April or May to further reduce any outside noise. The ceiling fan was replaced last year with one that makes almost no noise. Eventually, I want a near-silent studio. I really wish we had 2tb eSATA SSD for under $200, and compatible with Windows XP. If/when that happens, I'm buying several. Right now, 2tb Samsung EVO 850 is $635. When it hits $300 or less, I'll get at least one, assuming it will work on XP via eSATA.

This is a potential: http://www.amazon.com/MiniPro-trade-...91f05319e9bd9e

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  #11  
03-27-2016, 05:58 PM
VideoTechMan VideoTechMan is offline
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I admit I have seen and read alot about eSATA drives as my Asus x79 board has an 6Gbps eSATA port but I have never really used one. I'm also reading of SSD drives that are powered on the PCIe bus as well.

I'm curious as to where you're from LS. I live in Texas and as many Texans know can get hot in the summer, and since my studio is upstairs I would need to keep the A/C on whenever I am working up there. Eventually I will move to a better room more suited at some point (have alot of legal matters to get through first) so I work with what I have for the time being. I know working in a quiet environment is often preferred in a studio, especially when composing music.

As for XP, it does support 2TB as an OS drive (I have an older 64GB SSD running in one of the XP boxes) but as for eSATA, I'm not sure if there's a card that XP supports; more research is needed.

One thing I have read what many commercial studios do is that they have their edit bays in one room, while running the PC's and all the storage drives in another room--same for the VTR decks to minimize noise. I have two industrial servers I bought as surplus from a former datacenter that runs downstairs in an server rack (nice to have a brother that works in demolition, to get some of the useful server/networking stuff for free) that I plan to use for video storage and archiving, possibly OS backups too.

I don't understand why many makers of cases, HDD enclousures and such make their LED's so darn bright. I got in yesterday a phono preamp to use with one of my vinyl tables and the white LED on it is bright enough to use as a flashlight.
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  #12  
03-27-2016, 07:07 PM
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Texas.

Heat is an issue, yes, but it can be mitigated: storm windows, extra layers of insulation in the attic, big shade trees, shading/tinting windows, ceramic tile floors. A cool computer was my #1 concern along with being quiet. They were tied. And this system runs very cool compared to that Phenom that I used. During our temporary move to Nashville (to be closer to studios), we had hotter AMD systems, which was not a big deal there, as it's about 10 degrees cooler at all times than Texas. But my medical issues necessitated the move back home to Texas. These computers needed to go.

Downstairs is always cooler than upstairs.

I've never seen a commercial studio where workstations were in another room. I'm sure some do, but most are too cheap. Only the server farms are in a low-rent on-site data room, and often not kept cool enough at that (like a datacenter for servers). TV stations can be better. Stuff like this is all over the map, from ingenious to "WTF are they thinking!".

We had custom wood racks, but not anymore. I changed the way workflows were used. This location has less space, though it is better in many ways.

XP works fine with any 2tb drive. My main concern is external SSD TRIM on XP, and when switching from XP to 7 for tasks.

Look in the home section of Lowe's or Walmart. Find that rubbery black stuff often used for placemats. Cut that stuff up and use it to lay on, tape to, or wrap around anything too bight. The light still shines through, but it's cut in half. Add another layer to cut it by half again. If use it on everything from a UPS LED to WDTV players. That's for times when you need to see what's there, and not 100% blot it out with tape. If you have a cat, it's also good for litter box areas on tile floors, as it tends to trap litter. Just don't put it on wood, as it can damage surfaces. It great anti-slip stuff for TVs and VCRs! Also great for cutting vibrations on the floor or tables. My Skylake box has slight HDD vibration, and it has 3 layers under each leg. I hear nothing.

USB is crap compare to eSATA. Use it. For me, moving between systems would be impossible.

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  #13  
03-27-2016, 08:25 PM
VideoTechMan VideoTechMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Texas.

Heat is an issue, yes, but it can be mitigated: storm windows, extra layers of insulation in the attic, big shade trees, shading/tinting windows, ceramic tile floors. A cool computer was my #1 concern along with being quiet. They were tied. And this system runs very cool compared to that Phenom that I used. During our temporary move to Nashville (to be closer to studios), we had hotter AMD systems, which was not a big deal there, as it's about 10 degrees cooler at all times than Texas. But my medical issues necessitated the move back home to Texas. These computers needed to go.

Downstairs is always cooler than upstairs.
Nice to meet you fellow Texan! ) Ever want to meet up one day let me know, would be interested in seeing your setup!

I do agree downstairs is much cooler compared to upstairs. One of my old bedrooms downstairs would be perfect and have more room for my work but unfortunately its temporarily being used for storage (having moved from Michigan about 2 years ago after my mom's passing) and need some repairs. What I would really like to have one day is a home where I can build a dedicated studio room to do all my work in. That time will come, i'm sure of it.

Quote:
I've never seen a commercial studio where workstations were in another room. I'm sure some do, but most are too cheap. Only the server farms are in a low-rent on-site data room, and often not kept cool enough at that (like a datacenter for servers). TV stations can be better. Stuff like this is all over the map, from ingenious to "WTF are they thinking!".
I think that type of setup is more common out west in LA where most of the top dog studios are, where they often have stacks of VTR's, PC's and such in dedicated rooms where they run tons of cabling between there and the edit suites.

Quote:
We had custom wood racks, but not anymore. I changed the way workflows were used. This location has less space, though it is better in many ways.
I built myself actually three wood racks and they hold my gear pretty well. Plus the height was more reasonable where I could bring them upstairs. The solid metal rack I have in storage now is 72 inches tall and its too heavy and tall to bring it into a smaller room.

Quote:
XP works fine with any 2tb drive. My main concern is external SSD TRIM on XP, and when switching from XP to 7 for tasks.
As far as I know at least XP doesn't support the TRIM command whether it was an internal or external...on my XP box I installed the Samsung Magician software to take care of the scrap cleanup on the drive. I believe it was a way for XP to recognize the SSD as an AHCI but it would need a BIOS that had that feature and (to me at least) would have been more trouble getting that to work.

Quote:
Look in the home section of Lowe's or Walmart. Find that rubbery black stuff often used for placemats. Cut that stuff up and use it to lay on, tape to, or wrap around anything too bight. The light still shines through, but it's cut in half. Add another layer to cut it by half again. If use it on everything from a UPS LED to WDTV players. That's for times when you need to see what's there, and not 100% blot it out with tape. If you have a cat, it's also good for litter box areas on tile floors, as it tends to trap litter. Just don't put it on wood, as it can damage surfaces. It great anti-slip stuff for TVs and VCRs! Also great for cutting vibrations on the floor or tables. My Skylake box has slight HDD vibration, and it has 3 layers under each leg. I hear nothing.
I don't have any cats, but the rubbery stuff sounds like a great idea.

Quote:
USB is crap compare to eSATA. Use it. For me, moving between systems would be impossible.
Only thing USB is pretty much good for is basic keyboards, mice and printers (though my Canon MF printer is network connected). My audio interface (Scarlett 8i6) uses USB though to get audio into the system so it works for that purpose.

One thing I find disgusting though is the fact that you can buy a USB microphone...really? Only microphones I will ever consider for my setup is the tried-and-true XLR connection. No flakey drivers to worry about.
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  #14  
06-05-2016, 01:52 AM
VideoTechMan VideoTechMan is offline
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Ok I have an important question regarding Win 7 and the Skylake platform.

I have read that there isn't much support for Windows 7 being installed on a Skylake based system. LS, what OS are you running on your Skylake system, is it Win 7? I have no desire to bother with Windows 10 and I don't like the fact of M$ forcing folks to move to 10.
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  #15  
06-05-2016, 01:58 AM
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Yes, I'm using Windows 7.

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  #16  
06-08-2016, 08:32 AM
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Ok, I think I am ready to start a component list. This build will be for all SD/HD editing work and right now I am just working on the core components to get the system up and running. I still have to plan out the storage drives and whether to bother with a RAID setup.

Here's what I have come up with so far:

CPU: i7 Skylake 6700K

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO

RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB)

Motherboard: Asus Z170-PRO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard

PSU: CORSAIR RMx RM750X 750W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Power Supply

OS Drive: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive

Case: Coolermaster HAF 922 (reusing from previous build)



This is about all I have right now.....will have to work out the other stuff later. I am also open to selecting a good motherboard too for this build, as I have used both Asus and Asrock. Not opposed to MSI either.
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