Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Restore, Filter, Improve Quality

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
07-30-2018, 10:35 AM
RyfromNY RyfromNY is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 33
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So I am VERY VERY new to analog restoration. To be honest, I didn't know there WAS any way to restore or make analog tapes look better (I figured that only applied to film medium like 8mm reels). So to start:

I have 15 or so Video8 and Hi8 tapes, plus several VHS tapes (we either never had the master for those, or sadly the master was recorded over) spanning from 1986 to 2000. The main body of tapes span from June of '90 to December '00 and were all shot on the same video camera, a Sony HandyCam purchased new in June 1990 (I can get the model number if anyone needs it). I no longer have any Hi8 video camera to work with, just the tapes, DVD copies, and in the case of 4 films, MP4 Copes. Later today I will upload to Youtube what I feel is my most precious of the tapes as it captures the happiest time of my childhood so you have an idea of what I am dealing with. The original film was shot between 4-26-94 and 11-23-95. I will be uploading it from the MP4 copy.

My main concern is to remove grit, grain, and improve the crispness and detail/contrast of the video as well as try to fix, if possible, sequences shot in very low light areas which as such have a lot of grain.

Video in question in two parts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qhqQabQ8-8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkrEECs7vro
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
07-30-2018, 06:01 PM
themaster1 themaster1 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: France
Posts: 497
Thanked 99 Times in 83 Posts
Try this: http://www.fbmn-software.com/en/exposure
Reply With Quote
  #3  
07-30-2018, 06:52 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Confused about what you're requesting. Do you want someone's advice on how to clean up a lossy, blocky, noisy YouTube reencode, or do you want something more appropriate for your original video? Filters for YouTube and filters for an original capture won't be the same. Besides, cleaning up YouTube reencodes is a waste of time.

Also, a reminder that video samples posted off-site will disappear, thus making your thread useless for other readers.

I recall these shots from a batch of similar home videos posted elsewhere a few years back. If you could post the originals directly in forum threads back then, why can't you post them that way now?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
08-03-2018, 10:47 AM
RyfromNY RyfromNY is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 33
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Confused about what you're requesting. Do you want someone's advice on how to clean up a lossy, blocky, noisy YouTube reencode, or do you want something more appropriate for your original video? Filters for YouTube and filters for an original capture won't be the same. Besides, cleaning up YouTube reencodes is a waste of time.

Also, a reminder that video samples posted off-site will disappear, thus making your thread useless for other readers.

I recall these shots from a batch of similar home videos posted elsewhere a few years back. If you could post the originals directly in forum threads back then, why can't you post them that way now?
Basically, I want advice on how to clean up the original video (but I can't post the original tape here) as well as get better lighting out of underlit scenes.

I've never posted original films because I know of no way to do so directly. I have posted stills captured from digitized versions of the videos.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
08-03-2018, 08:58 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyfromNY View Post
I've never posted original films because I know of no way to do so directly. I have posted stills captured from digitized versions of the videos.
No one can advise about noise filters baeedm omn still shots from undefined sources. That's not the way video filtering work.

You can learn a great deal, and even get into advanced cleanup work, by reading forum posts. For example, .you won't find any posts anywhere where anyone ever at any time in any way posted a piece of film or a chunk of tape to an internet forum. What you should do is let us know the format and codec of your video, and someone can tell you how to prepare and post a short sample without degrading its original properties. If you don't know the format of your video capture, or don't know how to capture, or don't know the format of any sample you'd like to discuss, or don't know what a "format' is (for example, mp4 and AVI are not formats. They're containers.), I'm afraid this thread is at a standstill.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
08-04-2018, 06:36 AM
RyfromNY RyfromNY is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 33
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
No one can advise about noise filters baeedm omn still shots from undefined sources. That's not the way video filtering work.

You can learn a great deal, and even get into advanced cleanup work, by reading forum posts. For example, .you won't find any posts anywhere where anyone ever at any time in any way posted a piece of film or a chunk of tape to an internet forum. What you should do is let us know the format and codec of your video, and someone can tell you how to prepare and post a short sample without degrading its original properties. If you don't know the format of your video capture, or don't know how to capture, or don't know the format of any sample you'd like to discuss, or don't know what a "format' is (for example, mp4 and AVI are not formats. They're containers.), I'm afraid this thread is at a standstill.
How would I determine the format? Like, I have the MP4 files, and as you say they're containers, not formats - How do I determine the format and codec? Film to me is a very alien thing, it's complex unlike archiving photos which has been in my experience a lot more straightforward. I would really like to post a short sample of video from the source here, I just need to know what I asked above.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
08-04-2018, 06:39 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,501
Thanked 2,447 Times in 2,079 Posts
You can upload 99mb clips to the forum, which should well suffice as a sample. Especially for something compressed like MP4. I'm sure the main file is too large, so you just need to clip off a piece. For that, I use TMPGEnc Smart Renderer, but some freewares exist. Which can be used depends on the H.264 container (MKV, MP4, AVI). And right now, I'm just assuming the MP4 contains H.264, as know it can hold others.

sanlyn has concerns about not just Youtube, but the MP4 as source. I concur. I'm afraid you may have low quality compressed work from that company, but I'd need to see an unaltered (not re-encoded) clip to be sure.

The overall answer to the question is that you'll need to learn and use both Avisynth and VirtualDub. Those are the main restoration tools, even at a pro level. There's really nothing else that can do what those do.

To determine format details, use MediaInfo: https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo (freeware)

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #8  
08-10-2018, 01:37 PM
RyfromNY RyfromNY is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 33
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
You can upload 99mb clips to the forum, which should well suffice as a sample. Especially for something compressed like MP4. I'm sure the main file is too large, so you just need to clip off a piece. For that, I use TMPGEnc Smart Renderer, but some freewares exist. Which can be used depends on the H.264 container (MKV, MP4, AVI). And right now, I'm just assuming the MP4 contains H.264, as know it can hold others.

sanlyn has concerns about not just Youtube, but the MP4 as source. I concur. I'm afraid you may have low quality compressed work from that company, but I'd need to see an unaltered (not re-encoded) clip to be sure.

The overall answer to the question is that you'll need to learn and use both Avisynth and VirtualDub. Those are the main restoration tools, even at a pro level. There's really nothing else that can do what those do.

To determine format details, use MediaInfo: https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo (freeware)
Downloaded MediaInfo. It says:
Format: MPEG-4
Format profile: Base Media
Codec ID: isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size: 4.07 GiB
What is a good freeware software to show clips of my movies here?

And here is the specific video info:
Quote:
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Baseline@L3
Format settings : 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, RefFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=12
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1 h 53 min
Bit rate : 5 019 kb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 30.000 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.484
Stream size : 3.99 GiB (98%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00
Tagged date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00
Reply With Quote
  #9  
08-11-2018, 03:48 AM
themaster1 themaster1 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: France
Posts: 497
Thanked 99 Times in 83 Posts
You can use avidemux( free and small software ~20 MB)
upload on Mega.co.nz or here directly
Reply With Quote
The following users thank themaster1 for this useful post: lordsmurf (08-15-2018)
  #10  
08-11-2018, 10:20 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by themaster1 View Post
You can use avidemux( free and small software ~20 MB)
upload on Mega.co.nz or here directly
I think you should caution RyfromNY that he must edit with AviDemux in "copy" mode or his sample will be re-encoded. Avidemux must cut only on key frames. I'm fairly certain that RyfromNY doesn't know what key frames are. I don't use Avidemux so you might want to give some notes on how it's done without re-encoding. A re-encoded sample won't help.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
08-11-2018, 11:48 AM
RyfromNY RyfromNY is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 33
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
I think you should caution RyfromNY that he must edit with AviDemux in "copy" mode or his sample will be re-encoded. Avidemux must cut only on key frames. I'm fairly certain that RyfromNY doesn't know what key frames are. I don't use Avidemux so you might want to give some notes on how it's done without re-encoding. A re-encoded sample won't help.
Notes would help please, I have no idea what key frames are.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
08-11-2018, 03:35 PM
themaster1 themaster1 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: France
Posts: 497
Thanked 99 Times in 83 Posts
The default mode is "copy" so ain't none to worry about.
Just make sure to put it in a .mp4 container ("output format" on the main window) or mkv
Reply With Quote
The following users thank themaster1 for this useful post: lordsmurf (08-15-2018)
  #13  
08-13-2018, 01:21 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
What you want to do with Avidemux is select 10 to 20 seconds of mp4 video that is not re-encoded or filtered. To do that, start Avidemux and use its "File" menu to open your desired mp4 file, which will show up in the main display window. On the left-hand side of the main window, under "Video output", select "copy". Below that, under "Audio output", select "copy". Under "Output Format" select "mp4muxer".

At the center of the bottom of the Avidemux window you'll see an "A" icon and a "B' icon. You will use the "A" button to mark the beginning of your desired sample, and use the "B" button to mark the end of the selection.

If you pause your mouse pointer for a second or two over any of the bottom-row icons, you will find one icon that will "Go to previous key frame" and next to it is an icon that will "Go to next key frame". Use these "next' and "previous' icons to find the beginning of a section that you want to include in your sample. When you find the key frame that begins your desired selection, press the "A" marker button. Then use the "next" key frame button to find the end of your desired selection. Note the timer at the bottom of the window reads the time markers where your A" selection started. Move ahead about 20 seconds, which will be enough for a suitable sample and which will certainly be less than the 99MB limit for posting in the forum. When you find the point where you want your selection to end, click the "B" marker to mark the end of your selection.

Now click "File..." -> "Save...", and give your sample a name and location. It should take a mere second to save this small sample. Post it here in the forum using the Reply window in this thread. If you don't see a big button for managing uploads and attachments, use the "Advanced" viewing mode in the reply window and follow the onscreen instructions in the uploa window after you click the "manage Attachments" button. Give your sample a while to upload -- it will be a little slow because the system scans for viruses during the process.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank sanlyn for this useful post: JPMedia (08-31-2018), lordsmurf (08-15-2018)
  #14  
08-30-2018, 09:17 PM
RyfromNY RyfromNY is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 33
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry for the delayed response. The film was shot between April of 1994 and November of 1995. It was transferred by a service from a master Hi8 to MP4. The original Hi8 was shot on a 1990 Sony Handycam. I'm trying to determine if the level of grit and grain was either a poor transfer by the service, irreversible degradation of the tape itself, or just how a Hi8 from 1994 would look. Basically, if I was to use a higher end service, if I would get better results or if this tape has been screwed from being converted a few times - if I can get anything better. I do notice that in BRIGHT lighting MOST of the grain disappears.

First segment - shot April 1994 in the relatively low light conditions of my parents' bedroom, beginning of tape

Second segment - Shot June 1994 in the sunlight of our backyard

Third segment - Shot July 1994 in the relatively low light conditions of our living room

Fourth - Shot December 1994 in relatively well light conditions at my school

Fifth - Shot November 1995 in very low light conditions in my parents' bedroom.

All from same tape.


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 4-25-94_edit.mp4 (12.42 MB, 17 downloads)
File Type: mp4 4-25-94_edit2.mp4 (6.50 MB, 5 downloads)
File Type: mp4 4-25-94_edit3.mp4 (12.61 MB, 4 downloads)
File Type: mp4 4-25-94_edit4.mp4 (10.44 MB, 5 downloads)
File Type: mp4 4-25-94_edit5.mp4 (16.30 MB, 5 downloads)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
08-30-2018, 09:18 PM
RyfromNY RyfromNY is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 33
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
You can upload 99mb clips to the forum, which should well suffice as a sample. Especially for something compressed like MP4. I'm sure the main file is too large, so you just need to clip off a piece. For that, I use TMPGEnc Smart Renderer, but some freewares exist. Which can be used depends on the H.264 container (MKV, MP4, AVI). And right now, I'm just assuming the MP4 contains H.264, as know it can hold others.

sanlyn has concerns about not just Youtube, but the MP4 as source. I concur. I'm afraid you may have low quality compressed work from that company, but I'd need to see an unaltered (not re-encoded) clip to be sure.

The overall answer to the question is that you'll need to learn and use both Avisynth and VirtualDub. Those are the main restoration tools, even at a pro level. There's really nothing else that can do what those do.

To determine format details, use MediaInfo: https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo (freeware)
I uploaded some non reencoded samples from the MP4. Please tell me if you think the quality is either from the tape itself, or the camera used, or if it was a bad transfer, or if the tape's signal to noise ratio has degraded highly. Basically I wanna know how much better and "cleaner" - less grit - I can get the film.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
08-30-2018, 09:33 PM
RyfromNY RyfromNY is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 33
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
For comparison, here is another tape, this one from 1993 (separate Hi8) which was transferred by the same service. This tape was not converted as many times as the April 1994 Hi8 was. Just to give you guys an idea of if the issue is the tapes themselves, the camera used back then (we used the same camera from June 1990 through 2001) or if the transfer got gave me really high compression, or if the films are very much degraded because of age and transferring.

First is shot outside, Sept 93, beginning of tape.
Second shot outside again, Sept 93
Third is shot Christmas 93 in relatively low light conditions of my living room
Fourth is shot in better lit conditions of my living room (same day as 3)
Fifth is shot in lit conditions in my grandparents' house also on Christmas of 1993


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 Ryan 9-14-93_edit.mp4 (13.19 MB, 8 downloads)
File Type: mp4 Ryan 9-14-93_edit2.mp4 (10.59 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: mp4 Ryan 9-14-93_edit3.mp4 (9.21 MB, 5 downloads)
File Type: mp4 Ryan 9-14-93_edit4.mp4 (8.65 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: mp4 Ryan 9-14-93_edit5.mp4 (9.29 MB, 3 downloads)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
08-31-2018, 08:08 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,694
Thanked 369 Times in 325 Posts
Quote:
I'm trying to determine if the level of grit and grain was either a poor transfer by the service, irreversible degradation of the tape itself, or just how a Hi8 from 1994 would look.

Read more: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...#ixzz5PlD43tzR
I would say the grain/noise is typical of video shot with a consumer camcorder in poor light. The transfer process and age may have added to it, but they are not likely the source of most of it.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
09-02-2018, 05:56 PM
RyfromNY RyfromNY is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 33
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
I would say the grain/noise is typical of video shot with a consumer camcorder in poor light. The transfer process and age may have added to it, but they are not likely the source of most of it.
Is there any way I could reduce grain/get better video quality?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
09-02-2018, 06:16 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,501
Thanked 2,447 Times in 2,079 Posts
Without looking at the sample, yes, reducing noise is generally easy. Just remember to make it better, not perfect, otherwise you may filter too much, and cause artifacts.

Avisynth has many ways to correct for it.
With VirtualDub, you can look at Dynamic NR MMX by Donald Graft (neuron2), but the default is way too strong, and you should pull it down to about 4 or less.

My video system is not available today.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #20  
09-07-2018, 10:19 PM
RyfromNY RyfromNY is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 33
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Without looking at the sample, yes, reducing noise is generally easy. Just remember to make it better, not perfect, otherwise you may filter too much, and cause artifacts.

Avisynth has many ways to correct for it.
With VirtualDub, you can look at Dynamic NR MMX by Donald Graft (neuron2), but the default is way too strong, and you should pull it down to about 4 or less.

My video system is not available today.
Do you think you could examine my samples and determine what you think the cause for the noise is? If its simply the way the film was shot or transferring it too many times or age? Like if you could look and determine what you think the biggest factor is. I could samples of another film which was only transferred twice and which is older than the first to compare if need be.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cartoon restoration project - film grain noise removal? via Email or PM Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 1 07-26-2014 11:39 AM
Can't remove video noise/artifacting (grain in dark areas?)) DeeSeven Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 8 07-23-2014 08:19 AM
Help restoring dot crawl, dropouts, and grain on VHS videos? zack82 Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 18 04-29-2014 08:35 PM
Rotating a video that was shot vertically ? Sossity Edit Video, Audio 6 12-22-2010 07:53 AM
Advice on scanners for slides, negative film and 8mm film movies? lordsmurf Photo Processing, Scanning & Printing 3 12-29-2009 11:48 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:30 AM