Panasonic NV-FS200, Panasonic NV-HS1000 or JVC HM-DR10000?

[puleddu]

I found video cassettes at my place, in Italy, during the holidays (as I live in Germany) and spent the last few days avidly reading this forum and a few guides. I finally ended up subscribing today.

Thank you for putting so much effort into this website!

I am willing to buy a good VCR to convert into digital format several cassettes that my parents recorded with a Phonola camcoder when me and my brothers were little kids. Regularly sized VHS, not VHS-C.

I read various threads regarding PAL VCRs and narrowed down the choice to the following models, following the suggestions I could find here in the forum and trying to match them with availability and price in my area:

• Panasonic NV-HS1000 for 310$
• Panasonic NV-FS200 for 420$
• JVC HM-DR10000 for 500$

These are sold as refurbished units.
My first question is about the price difference between the two Panasonic, shouldn't the NV-HS1000 be a better machine? I read somewhere that the NV-FS200 uses capacitors instead of chips in the video boards, maybe being easier to repair makes it a pricier machine?

Would I be missing something important by going with the Panasonic machines instead of the JVC?
If the JVC is not offering much more for my type of use, I'd rather spare some money for the rest of the equipment I certainly need, like an external TBC.

What would be your recommendation?

Your help will be appreciated.

[lordsmurf]

Panasonic NV-HS1000 for 310$ is such a deal that I'd ask what's wrong with it. If hopefully nothing, I'd swipe it right up.

HM-DR10000 is a D-VHS deck, and I'm not a fan of D-VHS decks, because the tracking is inferior to the S-VHS decks. Not bad, better than most over VCRs, but just not as nice as some other S-VHS models from JVC. And given that price, I'd skip it, as I frequently see PAL S-VHS JVC decks for less than $500.

You've obviously read a lot of info, and you have a good handle on things.

At this point, you have to rely on reputation or/and return policy.

[puleddu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Panasonic NV-HS1000 for 310$ is such a deal that I'd ask what's wrong with it. If hopefully nothing, I'd swipe it right up.

It has 12 months repair warranty. Maybe it's worth to try and not be too doubtful about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

You've obviously read a lot of info, and you have a good handle on things.

Thank you

In your opinion, why the older model, the NV-FS200, would cost more?
Is the easier service "policy" assumption correct?

One last thing: the Panasonic NV-HS1000 reports the suffix EGC at the end (I've sent he label on the back of the unit) – does it make it a different product altogether or is it just a regional indication? Such as EK or EU for the JVCs?

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by puleddu

In your opinion, why the older model, the NV-FS200, would cost more?

It may be mere market evaluation, costs more because he (thinks) he can get more. You see that with some models of hardware.

(And I know I'm to blame for some of that. My advice has often been used as a bellweather to measure hardware values. When I talk about something more, more people read it and are interested, and it sells faster. Supply and demand. It's the reason I don't talk about the 9600-9900 decks much anymore, because the units were being vastly overvalued in recent years, especially as the dynamic drums have aged badly.)

Quote:

Is the easier service "policy" assumption correct?

Perhaps?

Quote:

One last thing: the Panasonic NV-HS1000 reports the suffix EGC at the end (I've sent he label on the back of the unit) – does it make it a different product altogether or is it just a regional indication? Such as EK or EU for the JVCs?

That's new to me. But I'd assume you're correct, sort of. I know AG-1980 vs. AG-1980P has slight differences (and I don't readily recall what those were).

[hodgey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by puleddu

One last thing: the Panasonic NV-HS1000 reports the suffix EGC at the end (I've sent he label on the back of the unit) – does it make it a different product altogether or is it just a regional indication? Such as EK or EU for the JVCs?

As you can see in the service manual here, there are at least two revisions of it (in addition to the "Professional" version, the beige/gray AG4700), and at least 3 different version of those with different tuner setups, one of which has NICAM support. The EGC is from the newer revision, without a NICAM decoder. NICAM and tuner differences are only relevant for receiving analog TV broadcasts anyhow so it won't matter for playing back tapes.

[puleddu]

Quote:

The EGC is from the newer revision, without a NICAM decoder.

Thank you for helping with this, hodgey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

It may be mere market evaluation, costs more because he (thinks) he can get more. You see that with some models of hardware.

I asked the vendor directly. This is what he said:

Quote:

the NV-FS200 has a built-in G-Deck, which is superior to the K-Deck of the NV-HS1000.
Both player have a very good picture and TBC of course.

I'm not sure what this means and whether it's accurate or not. What's your opinion about that?

[Bogilein]

The Panasonic FS200 ( & JVC HR-S9600) is one of the most recommended SVHS Recorders on the german market.
That's the reason why they are more expensive as other players like for example the HS1000.
The HS1000 was the successor of the FS200. Both have noise reduction, edit mode & TBC. The TBC from the HS1000 isn't really good. The picture from the HS1000 is a little bit sharper (more noise) as the picture from the FS200.

The Panasonic videorecorder has been released under the brand "Blaupunkt", too.
Panasonic FS200=Blaupunkt RTV 950
Panasonic HS1000=Blaupunkt RTV965/966

The line-tbc from the recorders is often not enough to get a stable picture.
You will need an external TBC. On german market you can buy the Electronic Design TBC-Enhancer which is not bad and from time to time some sold on auction sites. Prices somewhere between 80-200 Euro.
If you seek for an AVT-8710 or Davideo TBC-1000/3000.....good luck.

If you wanna use an hdd/dvd recorder as tbc replacement you should have a closer look at Panasonic DMR-ES10/ES15, EH495, EH595,EH65 and a few more.

If you use an dvd recorder as "TBC" a VCR with Line-TBC isn't really necessary.
The Panasonic FS88=Blaupunkt RTV 925 is the same unit as the FS200 but without the Line-TBC.

If you are interest in a refurbished Panasonic FS200 I would sell one which I got back from service. Price would be 220,- Euro. The location of the vcr is Germany. If you are interested I could upload pictures here on the marketplace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Panasonic NV-HS1000 for 310$ is such a deal that I'd ask what's wrong with it. If hopefully nothing, I'd swipe it right up.
.

It's normal price. For the FS200 the price is to high. I would not pay more than 340,-$ for the FS200.

[puleddu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogilein

The HS1000 was the successor of the FS200. Both have noise reduction, edit mode & TBC. The TBC from the HS1000 isn't really good. The picture from the HS1000 is a little bit sharper (more noise) as the picture from the FS200.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogilein

The line-tbc from the recorders is often not enough to get a stable picture.
You will need an external TBC. On german market you can buy the Electronic Design TBC-Enhancer which is not bad and from time to time some sold on auction sites. Prices somewhere between 80-200 Euro.

@Bogilein Thank you for adding this information, I find it very useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogilein

If you are interest in a refurbished Panasonic FS200 I would sell one which I got back from service. Price would be 220,- Euro. The location of the vcr is Germany. If you are interested I could upload pictures here on the marketplace.

I certainly am interested in buying a good Panasonic FS200.
However, I'm a bit hesitant to buy form a seller that doesn't provide servicing themselves.
And of course, please do not read this in the wrong way as I do appreciate your input and offer.

It's just that I'm not experienced, the vendors providing warranty and return policies are obviously more appealing for a person that doesn't have a confidence with the item itself – like me.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogilein

On german market you can buy the Electronic Design TBC-Enhancer which is not bad

It's not good, either.
That's an Amiga editing appliance from the 1980s, for use with Amiga computers.
I made comments about it a decade ago: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...s-tbc-vcr.html

[Bogilein]

Quote:

Originally Posted by puleddu

@Bogilein Thank you for adding this information, I find it very useful.

I certainly am interested in buying a good Panasonic FS200.
However, I'm a bit hesitant to buy form a seller that doesn't provide servicing themselves.
And of course, please do not read this in the wrong way as I do appreciate your input and offer.

It's just that I'm not experienced, the vendors providing warranty and return policies are obviously more appealing for a person that doesn't have a confidence with the item itself – like me.

No problem.
The only thing I can give would be a 7day operational guarantee if the recorder will be delivered in Germany. Where you can test and check the vcr.
I have bought the Panasonic FS200 & the Blaupunkt RTV950 last year at the same time. After purchase I have take them both to a service where there replace the capacitors and do a few things more.
I like the Blaupunkt design more because of the bigger buttons. According to the service report the FS200 wasn't heavy used and the videohead like new.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

It's not good, either.
That's an Amiga editing appliance from the 1980s, for use with Amiga computers.
I made comments about it a decade ago: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...s-tbc-vcr.html

I have read the comments which you have made about 10 years ago but I think you haven't test the hardware by yourself.

I haven't said it's the best tbc but it's the only one you can buy for reasonable price if you can find one. I haven't seen an datavideo TBC or a ATV-8710 on auction sites for years but the Electronic Design you can find sometimes.
Remember back to the mid 90's. A Amiga computer at this time was better for video editing as a personal pc. There was more hardware released for video editing for this machine as for pc. You can use the tbc enhancer without an amiga computer. It has y/c & composite inputs/outputs.
The TBC-Enhancer has signal adjustment for h-phase & color shift in x & y directions, have contrast, luminance & colour controls, a sharp & smooth button. You can bypass the signal and more important Macrovision is deleted.
The bad thing you should only use the y/c input/outputs. The composite part isn't good and it cut the superblack range from 0-16 and you must use em with an vcr with Line-TBC for the jitter correction.

-- merged --

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

It's not good, either.
That's an Amiga editing appliance from the 1980s, for use with Amiga computers.
I made comments about it a decade ago: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...s-tbc-vcr.html

I have read the linked topic now for 2 times and have translated it to my own language, too but I can't find anything what you say what speaks about the tbc enhancer. The only thing you say that it should be from the mid 80, but that's wrong. It was released around 1995.

I would like to see how it would compare to the datavideo 1000,3000 & the atv8710.

Have you ever tested the TBC-Enhancer from Electronic Design?

I know there should exit 3 versions of it. One Light version, where some functions missing but I never saw one on ebay. The first versions have RGB/YUV out through the 23pin amiga connector and the 2nd version have only the rgb output.

Have a look at the manual I have uploaded.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogilein

I would like to see how it would compare to the datavideo 1000,3000 & the atv8710.
Have you ever tested the TBC-Enhancer from Electronic Design?

After 25 years of doing this, I'm start to forget the specifics of what I had used in tested back in the 90s, sometimes even 00s. I really can't say either way anymore. This is a reason I've re-tested so much gear in recent years -- and have archived samples this time!

I'd also like to compare it to other TBCs. However, I don't have much faith in it performing well.

[willow5]

Hi there,

Is this advice still valid with respect to the FS200 vs the HS1000? The reason I ask is because I can get a HS1000 much cheaper than a working FS200 right now and I have now accumulated several decent FS200s over the years I have been involved in this very useful forum in case of major failure and also for spares However, I have no experience of the HS1000.

Many thanks

[lordsmurf]

Which advice, specifically?

The HS1000 isn't a bad deck. And if it can be had for much cheaper than the FS200, then I'd probably do it myself. I've only seen the decks 2nd-hand (captures from others), and neither seems bad. It's not even the differences between the AG1970 and 1980 that I can tell.

But don't forget my main advice: JVC 1st, Panasonic 2nd.
- Overall, the JVC is better.
- But for many specific needs, the Panasonic is better.

There's a reason that many of us, who do this seriously, own both types of deck (at minimum).

[latreche34]

The best decks are JVC HR-SXXXX series S-VHS with built in line TBC. Yes, having multiple VCR's is the ultimate goal to cover as much tape problems as possible but if you have to buy one VCR only then it is going to be the above suggestion.

[willow5]

Thanks both.

@lordsmurf, I was referring to this advice from Bogilen earlier in this thread:

The TBC from the HS1000 isn't really good.

Thanks @latreche34, I haven't got any JVC's in my collection so far. Does this also apply to PAL machines?

[hodgey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

AG1970 and 1980 that I can tell.

The difference between the tech is a bit larger between those two models so it would make sense that they look more different.

If you look at the service manuals, the NV-FS200 shares almost all internals and mechanism with the 1970P. Based on the service manuals, I think the NV-FS950 is the PAL model with closest video decoding circuitry to the 1980P. Both feature fancy digital video decoders and digital noise reduction using some of the same ICs, though the construction of the 950 is a bit different like being mid-mount, and it's not quite as advanced as the 1980P. The 1980P is a bit special as as far as I can tell it has 3 sets of video heads instead of the normal 2, which may explain it's great SLP performance since there's one set for each speed.
The NV-HS1000 sits somewhere in between the FS200 and NV-HS950 tech and age-wise, it shares the K-mechanism with the 1980 and 950 (fs200 and 1970 has g mech), but has more standard analog video circuitry + TBC like the FS200/1970P, though a bit newer and more compacted than those.

How the HS950 compares to the FS200 and HS1000 in practice I have no idea though.

Like the FS200, the HS1000 has some smaller brothers, like NV-HS800 which is the same without the TBC, and some hi-fi and mono models that share mech and many internals, but with simpler video ics.