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Originally Posted by jwillis84
Panasonic started with LSI chipsets in their early DVD recorders,
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No.
Panasonic's first recorders were using in-house chips, back around 1999 or so. Those "E" series recorders were horrible, with severe IRE/brightness issues, and I think AGC issues. The bitrates were low, making even 2-hour "SP" mode DVDs look really noisy. 4-hour looked worse than EP on a cheap tape frrom a cheap 2-head VCR,and 6-hour was unviewable crap that looked more akin to RealMedia than DVD.
Panasonic followed that up with the overrated "EH" models around 2002, which fixes the IRE/brightness/AGC, but at the cost of altering luma (remember: the green portion of the signal). So now we had noisy video with a slightly putrid look to skin tones. These were overly popular simply because they were easy to use, but quality hounds hated them. Many, many VHS tapes of rare TV shows were
converted ruined to DVD by these machines, to the chagrin of serious TV show collectors. Even today, some of the only extant versions of shows are crap thanks to these machines/
By late 2003, LSI came out with the LSI DMN chip, first used in the Apex DRX9000 recorder. That recorder had serious PSU issues, including exploding and causing fires. The Apex CEO went to prison shortly thereafter for fraud, and Apex was defunct. But quality-wise, most concerning about the Apex was that it had a chip malfunction that could cause it to jump up the IRE and/or image gain for no reason, at any time. Both LiteOn and JVC saw it as a cheap kit to make DVD recorders, with JVC using it merely as the base. JVC used it to a pretty advanced degree, while LiteOn chose to cheap out. The JVC/LiteOn also had issues getting IRE/gamma/brightness perfected, unlike Apex, with LiteOn opting for the green cheat that gave some models that yurky skin color. Panasonic, the sister company of JVC, both beign part of Matsushita, saw the LSI chip as a potential cost cutting move during the ES series, and a way to correct the flaws on their own chips. But Panasonic apparently used it even worse than LiteOn, especially by insisting 720x480 being used for 4-hour (3.5mbps VBR), which was dreadful quality on par with the old E/EH series. So that was quickly abandoned back in favor of the own chipsets in other ES models and final EZ series, which continued to either flounder or get worse.
This abbreviates some things, but that's essentially a brief look at Panasonic chipsets in DVD recorders/
Aside from the frame sync / TBC(ish) filtering of the ES10/15 recorders, Panasonic was always crap. Even the ES10/15 recording quality sucks, and should not be used if quality matters. It's for TBC/sync, the end, nothing more.
I remember the troll HoustonGuy that hung out at AVS, and had some sort of unreal love affair with Panasonic. Some thought he was actually a Panasonic shill, though I think he was just a clueless crank. With that guy, up was down, left was right. I remember his ridiculous ideas, such as DVD-RAM is better than DVD-RW/+RW for longevity; however both were phase change media, neither was better than the other. But Panasonic recommended DVD-RAM, because they also sold it, so must tout the company line! I sometimes wonder if he was from Houston at all, and probably pronounced it "how-ston" -- a joke that I know won't be lost on you!
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My point with all of this is there were a lot of vendors of chipsets to source from
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Nah. It was either in-house, or using maybe a half dozen vendors at most. I forget offhand what something like Cyberhome used (ESS?), but it was junk. No-names usually used the kits, as they did with DVD players, and higher-end used in-house (Panasonic, Sony, Philips). The fact that LSI and Zoran outdid the in-house was somewhat amazing, though with the understanding that LSI was already a player in higher-end broadcast/studio gear. Zoran was a skilled fab lab that designed many video chips, especially DVD. So, arguably, they were more skilled at video than the name brand labs. If only Zoran had the chroma NR, we'd be in DVD recorder utopia.
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by the time JVC had to leave the LSI Company chipsets.. but they did have to leave them. The closest since they seemed to partner and then co-develop was panasonic.. so that is a "guess".. but I've never opened up one of the Blu-Ray recorders you are mentioning.
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That would be my guess as well: JVC used then-sister (until 2008) Panasonic chips. Although the former Matsushita twins were "separate", we've seen many instances of overlay over the years, going back to VHS and home camcorders. Some of the BD-R recorder features also remind me of features from Panasonic pro video cameras at the time (but also Sony).
I wish more info was available.
But then again, a big reason that DVD recorder chipset info was available is because I opened and dissected so many units between 2003-2009. Others followed, often in my example, or even cajoling. A few like LSI actually released public listings. Anything I could not test, I was in contact with reps at the companies. I'm not one to "take credit" for things, but the vast majority of info about DVD recorder chipsets can be traced to my posts here, at VH, and AVSForum. Also quite a bit of in-depth on quality, and features (that mattered). That includes the passthrough of the Panasonic ES10/15 units.
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built-in "frame sync" TBC
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"Frame syncs" are not necessarily "frame sync TBC". And given the costs, no DVD recorder has a "frame sync DVD", usually just the frame sync buffer of a frame or so. It'll still choke on tape sources, bad or not. Perhaps some lines timing at most, with the strongest known being the ES10/15, though still not truly TBC due to Macrovision holes. But most don't have line correction, either.
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Its what you might call a "Broadcast" recorder..
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These are appliances, usually from companies you've never heard of, and using formats and specs that would confuse you (like multi-streams MXF). You are expected to have already cleaned the source with TBC, and likely pro BetacamSP/etc. Not s-video or composite, either.
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Blu-Ray recorders are not something really to go "hunting for" as a substitute for DVD recorders..
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Yep. My only interest in this is for research, not any sort of practical application. A curiosity. Someday prices will hover low enough the I can scratch that itch.
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These are also typically sold with "service contracts (or) insurance polices" which are (worth the cost) because the Laser diodes in the DVD drives are consumables.. and do burn out on a regular basis like a set of tires for your car.. they don't fail, they get "used up". And when that happens.. its junk it, or pay a ridiculous amount of money to replace the recorder burner.
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You just described Southern Advantage.