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08-02-2019, 08:32 PM
ofesad ofesad is offline
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Hello guys! Marcelo here from Argentina.

Not many of you know, but I've been hunting for a TBC for over a year now, mostly because in my country are extremely rare.

Just today I PM'd Lord Smurf about how much a Datavideo TBC-1000 goes for and I might got one in a nearby country.

However, just today, someone put up for sale TWO Broadcast TBC's.
I know rack units and broadcast equipment it's not prefered but since I have been waiting over a year to get one... and they are quite cheap actually...

So the unit its a For.A FA-310p

Manual


Anyone had any experience with this one? Opinions?

I haver read that For.A equipment it's quite good, and in some way, better than Datavideo. Altought this is a old model.

Thanks for reading! Hope you can help me!


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  #2  
08-02-2019, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Opinions?
Crap. Don't buy that.

Quote:
I haver read that For.A equipment it's quite good, and in some way, better than Datavideo. Altought this is a old model.
Pffft. No. Where'd you read that? For.A is mostly broadcast/rackmount gear, most are entirely unsuitable for consumer analog formats. It expects a different quality source. Even on the few models that are workable with VHS (example: FA-125), those For.A are weaker than DataVideo and Cypress. And this can be a problem for tougher VHS tapes. Note that "tougher" doesn't necessarily refer to visual quality, but rather signal quality.

I did a quick FA-125 review here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post54299

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  #3  
08-09-2022, 02:37 PM
kitty666cats kitty666cats is offline
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I use a For-A FA-310 at work and it, surprisingly, works quite well with consumer tapes (and not just broadcast-style tapes). I definitely can't vouch for any other For-A units, but this thing has been going strong in our new advanced capture station.

It's most often (almost exclusively, really) used in tandem with a Panasonic AG-1980 - so, the line TBC in the Pana is doing a lot of the 'work' as well. But all that being said, I have noticed a marked improvement in stability for the most finicky of tapes. We use JVC decks normally, AG-1980's for troublesome tapes, and then the AG-1980 + For-A for the most troublesome. I wouldn't spend more than ~$300 USD for one, that being said. I'd also make sure you are familiar with fine-tuning proc amp controls, you'll have to tweak the chroma level/phase/et al, on occasion.

Again, I can't speak for some of the earlier For-A units without S-Video & YPbPr output. We do S-Video in and out of this one - using YPbPr out makes the colors a tad too 'blown-out' (not surprising, unnecessary extra chroma separation!). Also take into account I am using a NTSC unit, not PAL - though, I doubt they would behave any differently. Now, if only it could accept U-Matic dub and transcoder it to S-Video! Heh. My JVC KM-F250U I have at home might be able to do that... definitely keep an eye out for one of those, though they are sadly rare. Here is the manual for the PAL variant of said JVC: https://www.adcom.it/public/images/M...0MAN%20ENG.pdf
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  #4  
08-14-2022, 09:46 AM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitty666cats View Post
I use a For-A FA-310 at work and it, surprisingly, works quite well with consumer tapes (and not just broadcast-style tapes). I definitely can't vouch for any other For-A units, but this thing has been going strong in our new advanced capture station.

It's most often (almost exclusively, really) used in tandem with a Panasonic AG-1980 - so, the line TBC in the Pana is doing a lot of the 'work' as well. But all that being said, I have noticed a marked improvement in stability for the most finicky of tapes. We use JVC decks normally, AG-1980's for troublesome tapes, and then the AG-1980 + For-A for the most troublesome. I wouldn't spend more than ~$300 USD for one, that being said. I'd also make sure you are familiar with fine-tuning proc amp controls, you'll have to tweak the chroma level/phase/et al, on occasion.

Again, I can't speak for some of the earlier For-A units without S-Video & YPbPr output. We do S-Video in and out of this one - using YPbPr out makes the colors a tad too 'blown-out' (not surprising, unnecessary extra chroma separation!). Also take into account I am using a NTSC unit, not PAL - though, I doubt they would behave any differently. Now, if only it could accept U-Matic dub and transcoder it to S-Video! Heh. My JVC KM-F250U I have at home might be able to do that... definitely keep an eye out for one of those, though they are sadly rare. Here is the manual for the PAL variant of said JVC: https://www.adcom.it/public/images/M...0MAN%20ENG.pdf
Just to say I echo this entirely.

They're fantastic TBCs and wholly compatible with 'domestic' sources, they're designed to straighten out U-Matic after all with U-Matic's attendant ever-changing levels and almost incomprehensible timing errors.

Great units, we had a rack of eight of them running continuously with a host of sources and we could capture for hours through them with 0 frame issues.

You bring up good points, they do require a bit of knowledge to get the best out of them and do require setting up and occasional tweaking as you've mentioned but overall for what they cost they're a great unit. Compared to the TBC-1000 these are a better unit for the most problematic of tapes.

Experts deriding them ('the DOC switch didn't do anything) usually show that they don't understand professional video equipment or how to set it up.

They are wholly compatible with domestic videotape sources.

The main issue with them is that they're power-hungry (around 150W running), bulky and noisy. The PSU costs a fortune to rebuild when it eventually fails due to the over-spec'd capacitors (£20 odd each for some of them) and they're also not designed for amateurs and do require a bit of video theory to comprehend the set-up and tweak in service.

Are they the best? That's always debatable, but probably not. Are the decent value, work astonishingly well when set up properly and robust? Absolutely.

Also being professional equipment they're much easier to service and maintain than 'disposable' domestic units with neatly and logically laid out boards, through-hole construction, broadcast build quality, proper shielding and RF immunity.

They're far from 'crap' though unless you're randomly flicking switches and don't comprehend how to adjust one.

They wouldn't have board dedicated to S-Video Y/C if they did not have domestic sources in mind

Last edited by RobustReviews; 08-14-2022 at 09:56 AM.
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  #5  
08-22-2022, 09:02 AM
kitty666cats kitty666cats is offline
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Originally Posted by RobustReviews View Post
Just to say I echo this entirely.

They're fantastic TBCs and wholly compatible with 'domestic' sources, they're designed to straighten out U-Matic after all with U-Matic's attendant ever-changing levels and almost incomprehensible timing errors.

Great units, we had a rack of eight of them running continuously with a host of sources and we could capture for hours through them with 0 frame issues.

You bring up good points, they do require a bit of knowledge to get the best out of them and do require setting up and occasional tweaking as you've mentioned but overall for what they cost they're a great unit. Compared to the TBC-1000 these are a better unit for the most problematic of tapes.

Experts deriding them ('the DOC switch didn't do anything) usually show that they don't understand professional video equipment or how to set it up.

They are wholly compatible with domestic videotape sources.

The main issue with them is that they're power-hungry (around 150W running), bulky and noisy. The PSU costs a fortune to rebuild when it eventually fails due to the over-spec'd capacitors (£20 odd each for some of them) and they're also not designed for amateurs and do require a bit of video theory to comprehend the set-up and tweak in service.

Are they the best? That's always debatable, but probably not. Are the decent value, work astonishingly well when set up properly and robust? Absolutely.

Also being professional equipment they're much easier to service and maintain than 'disposable' domestic units with neatly and logically laid out boards, through-hole construction, broadcast build quality, proper shielding and RF immunity.

They're far from 'crap' though unless you're randomly flicking switches and don't comprehend how to adjust one.

They wouldn't have board dedicated to S-Video Y/C if they did not have domestic sources in mind

Good to see that this isn't a freakish anomaly and these units are, indeed, treating someone else nicely.

I still can't think of a good reason to use the YPbPr out, though - unless you have some zany setup where it's absolutely mandatory to have component on the output. Have you tried it and noticed it looks kinda 'off'? I suppose the models which have component IN, too, woulda been good for Proc Amp controls on BetaCam SP decks etc.
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  #6  
08-22-2022, 12:29 PM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitty666cats View Post
Good to see that this isn't a freakish anomaly and these units are, indeed, treating someone else nicely.

I still can't think of a good reason to use the YPbPr out, though - unless you have some zany setup where it's absolutely mandatory to have component on the output. Have you tried it and noticed it looks kinda 'off'? I suppose the models which have component IN, too, woulda been good for Proc Amp controls on BetaCam SP decks etc.
For Betacam we used different equipment and some decks with limited but useful proc' amp controls.

I recommend them personally, to be frank the internet being filled of repeated woe around them keeps the prices down which is helpful.

Never noticed the issues you describe but I will clarify next week when I see the team.

They are a very good unit in my opinion, I wouldn't do anything but recommend them with a couple of caveats.

The main issue is that they're all elderly now and naturally components are reaching the end of their working lives.
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  #7  
10-23-2023, 05:41 PM
kitty666cats kitty666cats is offline
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Just chiming back in here: after extensive use of the For.A FA-310 and the DataVideo TBC-1000, I’m of the opinion that the For.A blows the DataVideo out of the water. Works perfectly fine with consumer tapes/home videos et al, and the need for a line TBC chained before it is quite often unnecessary.

The only caveat is that you’ve got to have some relatively decent knowledge on how & when to adjust proc amp controls. But, yeah… I’d say this For.A is a good contender for not immediately writing off a large portion of the big rack-mount broadcast TBCs/frame synchronizers for having no efficacy with consumer-grade tapes. The For.A (along with my JVC KM-F250 frame sync/TBC which I use at home, rather than work) are both great examples of the broadcast-style TBCs deserving more love, attention & more thorough testing.

P.S. I’ve not had any personal with it, but I’ve seen a lot of people mentioning being extremely satisfied with their I.DEN IVT-7P experiences lately. Looks like a pretty solid unit!
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  #8  
10-23-2023, 05:58 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Would you mind pick a problematic tape or an artifact and post some samples for both units? We all would appreciate your contribution.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
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  #9  
10-23-2023, 06:36 PM
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That just does not make any sense. For.A are known fiddly units, often weaker, with obtuse option and lack of usage instructions.

How, exactly, does the For.A "blow out" the TBC-1000?

... noting that the DataVideo TBC-1000 is not "the best" TBC (just a decent one), and not without faults and failures now in the 2020s due to infamous 90s/2000s caps. I have multiple TBCs that can make the TBC-1000 appear inferior.

Where, exactly, are you seeing praise for those old I.Den units? Because I have literally never seen what I would consider a good unit, only passable after a refurb, 99% of them completely junked out now.

I would also note this: since the AG-1980P is in use, there's a chance that the field TBC inside it is compensating some for the For.A weakness. Certain weak TBCs do pair well with a workflow of AG-1980, with a known-resilient model capture card.

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