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-   -   TBC image now dirty? UPS? (http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vcr-repair/11121-tbc-image-dirty.html)

kreso05 10-26-2020 11:05 AM

TBC image now dirty? UPS?
 
Everything is working great but TBC is not clean. I mentioned that in my post http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/prem...ing-video.html

You can still find images there. When I ask you what is the problem you answered me this: '
Quote:

'The TBC you have is/was a clean image. It may be power-related interference at your location. Again, you need to use a UPS, as wall power is always dirty.''.
you wrote me that I should buy UPS and that may be solution to my problem, because there is no other way to get image clean,( I tested cables and everything ) and that '' dirty thing '' can been seen quite good on 4k TV, so I really hope UPS will solve that problem. Because I started dooing this business for money to other people so ofc I want an clean image. Tell me, does it has to be some special UPS or any UPS will do the trick ? I will link you some UPS that are available for me at this moment: [redacted]

Thank you.

lordsmurf 10-26-2020 11:05 AM

The main thing to look for with a UPS is AVR (voltage regulation). The better UPS also have larger/longer batteries. APC is good, Cyberpower is best, but some other brands may be fine. I've had the least problem with Cyberpower.

TBC noise is 99% caused from two issues:
- bad power supply / AC adapter
- bad power, cleaned by UPS with AVR

The 1% is a bad cap on a board. There is a small chance the cap didn't like climate change from me to you, and is now bad. Unlikely, but I've seen it once or twice, over the past decade. This is easy to verify: open unit, look for bulged capacitors.

Climate changes are also a reason that AC adapters can poop out on you. It can be fine in one locale, but after a trip in the mail, especially across continents, it can fail to function properly (or at all). Seen it many times.

kreso05 11-05-2020 08:22 PM

UPS-TBC issue
 
9 Attachment(s)
Hello again,

okay I read your comment that UPS could solve problem and maybe AC adapter.

I want to talk about TBC first. When you wrote: '' The 1% is a bad cap on a board....This is easy to verify: open unit, look for bulged capacitors. '' - hmm im not exactly sure in what to look at ( should they be burned or something ? ) when i opened the unit i took some pictures that i will put in attachment, so you can take a look.

If everything is okay with TBC you sayd that: '' The main thing to look for with a UPS is AVR (voltage regulation) '' and i found one cyberpower UPS, that is really cheap, around 65 US dollars ( i dont care about battery life i just want to take care of that TBC noise ) and he has : Line interactive AVR, Simulated Sine Wave. - Is that specification that I need to look for ?

I will place link and name here of that product and if you think hes okay i can go and buy it instant.

CYBERPOWER UT650EG

https://www.links.hr/hr/ups-cyberpow...crni-150600242

Thank you for your answer

lordsmurf 11-09-2020 10:32 AM

I don't see any bad caps there.

hodgey 11-09-2020 10:58 AM

Could you post an image of the dirty image in this thread? The example you link is in the member only section.

kreso05 11-09-2020 03:01 PM

3 Attachment(s)
when you zoom in a bit you will see it.

P.s. i hope you can see it in attachment

lordsmurf 11-09-2020 06:30 PM

I need to see a video clip, not just a still. Does it move?

kreso05 11-09-2020 06:36 PM

2 Attachment(s)
yes.. they go up and down, tomorow i can upload a video on youtube so you can see. There are 2 separate thick lines. Like a big chroma noise that you cant remove, and when you use filter in virtualdub called Camcoder color denoise 1.6MT it removes color from it but gray noise stays. Tomorow il post link of a youtube video.

-- merged --

try to see this video. How it goes up and down and its real problem when people watch it on 4k tv,s

-- merged --

p.s. can this UPS help ? - CYBERPOWER UT650EG ( he has AVR , at least it says in specs )

see this image of lets say final product how it effects everything. When I remove chroma noise this is how it looks.

lordsmurf 11-09-2020 09:33 PM

That chroma noise isn't primary, or even secondary. It's a byproduct. The main issue here is definitely power related. Either the power supply hates your power grid. Or a UPS is needed. Or both.

hodgey 11-10-2020 12:05 PM

It's a bit hard to judge from the pictures, but I do see a large moving noise bar and it seems you've filtered it a bit. I did have a big noise bar a bit like that on the Datavideo TBC-3000 I got from LS when I used the power supply that I got with it (it died pretty quickly so maybe it wasn't actually designed for 230V even though the label said it was.) Using a different power supply fixed the issue (I think someone else here had the same issue with noise with same fix) though I still have some faint high-frequency noise all over which depend on the brightness levels. I have also observed a similar noise issue on a Hi8 camcorder when I using it with a power supply that turned out to look extremely dodgy when I looked inside of it.

kreso05 11-10-2020 02:04 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I went into a store and I ordered CYBERPOWER UT650EG with AVR, he will be in my home in 2-3 days.

When you guys ( lordsmurf and hodgey ) talk about '' power supply '' do you mean this ? ( I will put picture in attachment )

lordsmurf 11-10-2020 05:13 PM

Yes, that's it.

power supply = AC adapter = "wall plug"

I don't remember that unit rating offhand, but I'm sure it's a center-negative, 12V or 15V, about 1A
Read the current specs on the unit.

Something else that may be in play here is the europlug adapter. I never tested it, because I can't. But the plug in USA 110/120V was fine. So the plug may actually be fine, but that europlug adapter is doing something bad to the electrical signal integrity.

hodgey 11-10-2020 06:35 PM

If by europlug adapter you mean thingies that allow a US plug in a Europlug socket those are "dumb" and just connect the US pins to europlug pins, there isn't any electronics in there so I don't see how that could do anything.

Given that I got a similar issue when using an adapter that was originally from the US in a 220/230V country, maybe the aging of the components cause issues earlier when used with a higher voltage while still being in good enough condition to not cause issues on 1x0 volts. Thankfully this style of power adapter is widely available so it's easy to replace.

lordsmurf 11-11-2020 03:57 AM

Correct, the adapter has no electronics. But it can still be junk or defective. Simply have bad metal inside, improper shielding, could cause an issue. So this could all be a problem cause by a $1 part.

Note that UPS is still extremely suggested, so that was not a waste.

This adapter is from China. Almost all "US" adapters are from China. Because of that, most adapters are also 100-240V, with different plug shapes. (See also why almost all DVD players do both PAL and NTSC.)

The main difference here is Cypress vs. DataVideo. DataVideo eats PSUs. Cypress is more rare in this way.

kreso05 11-13-2020 02:40 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Well iv got UPS today. Cyberpower UT650EG,,, in his specification it says that he have AVR, but nothing changed, or maybe it did,, but its wierd. There is still noise and if you ask me is even worse ;( il put video in attachment with UPS connected and photos of what AC/DC power supply I use. So if UPS didnt help, my only chance is to change power supply adapter, because im using same power supply that you lordsmurf sent me with TBC. I just went into a store and buy adapter for EU plug. I think that is my last chance to remove that TBC noise,, my God, when I entered all this it wasnt even in my dreams that something like this will be wrong. I payed that gear very much and offcourse I want to make money off it. People know that i have good gear and noone here has anything like that. Im just sad that with this I will '' destroy '' or put more dmg to tapes then they are originaly. TBC with ES10 should remove some VHS noise from tape,, and now im just adding more noise to tapes that are perfectly fine :( . Tomorrow I will go buy new AC/DC power supply adapter and I really really hope it will work. At least lower the noise, if noise doesn't want to go completly.

kreso05 11-14-2020 05:50 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Well what can I say. Thank dear God its fixed. It looks clean to me ! Now just tell me does it look clean to you? Thank you lordsmurf and hodgey for help on this case. Today I got switching AC/DC power supply adapter which costed around 10 euros, not expensive. Got home, plug it into UPS and starter some VHS tape, and noise was gone,,, just like that. I wont even try it without UPS. Maybe it was only problem in US power supply, cuz its not that friendly in EU... who knows. I'm glad that I got UPS because it is a sure + for everything ( safety first ) my VCR, TBC and ES10 will be plugged in him in case weather storm comes or electricity runs out. If anyone else in future got this problem, first buy new EU switching AC/DC power supply adapter for like 10 euros and see if it helps, but UPS is great thing too. UPS doesn't have to be expensive, iv got mine for around 55 euros, AVR is important specification like lordsmurf sayd above. In attachment I will put fixed video and few photos of power supply.
( p.s. video only has QTGMC filter but don't mind that, i'm just happy that noise isn't there anymore,,, )

rocko 11-15-2020 02:40 AM

This post caught my attention, regarding video noise, good old RFI possible?
Radio Frequency Interference In the digital age.
Are you located in an isolated location, or in a densely populated urban environment like a condo or apartment with lots of digital noise next to you?

lordsmurf 11-15-2020 03:24 AM

UPS don't leave you much space when using bulky AC adapters. So you can use a small power strip. Or short power cord extenders (about 6 inches long). Just do not overload any one plug, nor the UPS.

kreso05 11-15-2020 05:57 PM

Hello Rocko, yes I do live in urban environment, its a small condo with '' old '' electricity. We were told by electrician guy who ran for us few more wall power socket ( plugs ) in our apartment ( for kitchen ) that we have max out '' electricity '' in this place, because building is old and it cant stand that much electricity appliances that we have in it. One part of apartment is my office which has only 2 wall power sockets ( plugs ). One bellow my desk and one bellow my wife's desk ( its one big 3m desk ). And each plug we replaced with 2 socket one, and in each socket has extension cord that can take up to 5 more electrical appliances. So on one very small space ( a desk that is 3 m long ) we have 3 windows PC ( with monitors ofc ) 1 27'' iMac, piano, lamp, my video equpment ( VCR, ES10,TBC and one more VCR -which is now connected in 1 UPS ) printer, scener ... idk but yes a lot of things with only 2 wall power sockets that are divided in idk how many,, and they are all in one very small space, but that is place I live in at this moment and yes I hope soon we will move out because we cant have any more wall power sockets because we are max out for electricity

lordsmurf 11-16-2020 02:03 AM

You need to be careful about plugging into too much into one outlet, or even one circuit. Do you know what the wires in the wall are rated for? Because you want good gauge/grade wiring. Pulling too much power on an outlet, or a circuit, can heat the wires inside the wall. That's especially bad for insulated walls.

Most "to code" specs are weak. The wiring sucks, thinnest crap allowed.

Before I was forced to move (health), my place had some weak wiring in certain rooms. That included my home office. I had to run pro grade extensions along the wall, to another room, to power everything. The office would trip the breaker, and the breaker would be hot, trying to run it all. The breaker was replaced multiple times before the extension cords were run to another room, and all was (usually) well.

The stock breakers were all AFCI/GFCI, and both the studio and donor-power room were replaced with a plain breaker that tripped less. The home inspector had a fit when I was forced to sell. The potential buyer demanded a costly licensed electrician come swap it out for $500 (following the inspector guidance). I refused. The agent ate the $500 because it was the only point of contention. But I'm betting she actually had a buddy fix it for the $25 or so breaker cost. What I did wasn't at all suggested, but it also wasn't dangerous. This is a common complaint online, AFCI a trip-happy, and non-AFCI non-GFCI is the fix. The main issue with plain breakers is that you need to be assured that the wiring is good, and that it's not overloaded.

Where I am now was custom wired, some of the best materials made were used (Siemens).


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