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  #1  
01-26-2010, 08:04 PM
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One of the DVD recorders that I have is a Panasonic DMR-EZ27 with a digital turner. I looked up passthrough didn't find much. Would it be a good idea to run the siginal to that machine and than back in to the JVC recorder?

Right now I am running the sound through the AG1980 for everything...The reason I can filter it a little bit....Than remove the hiss once I get it on the PC.....

On the Mono stuff, it is 2 tracks but both are same. I like moving sound in different speakers. I have a few tricks that I have used over the years to get mono tracks to a tricked up stereo format. However it is pain to do and it takes a long time, when you are dealing with 3 hours videos it is not worth it. A 5 minute song, yea it doesn't take that long.....

Also if I make the disks longer on the Panasonic Machine 4 hours (I think that is the other mode) Would it remove some of those analog blocks.

I know u think these DVD recorders are junk. I have recorded so much HD (source) to it and the picture is fine (granted it is letterboxed & not HD) However I don't have an HD recorder so this works for now. Never have a problem with it and the disks work on any machine.

On this JVC recorder, it is used of course, for some reason it blanks itself out and goes in to Loading mode. Is the machine busted or can u get around it. I just recorded 30 minutes of a 3 hour tape and it crapped out on me. I just got this machine in and it has crapped out a few times already.

The other recorder is broken the MV5, I thought I could fix it. The electronics are bad, I am not sure were the error is. The machine is in pieces as we speak. The DVD player can be transplanted if I ever needed to do that. That one was only $10.

Last edited by deter; 01-26-2010 at 08:08 PM.
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  #2  
01-26-2010, 09:31 PM
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Passthrough was discussed in the course of other threads, it doesn't have a dedicated thread of its own. (There will, however, be a guide on this on the new site, at some point.)
  • VCR (TBC disabled) >
    • Panasonic DVD recorder >
      • TBC, if available >
        • other optional hardware (proc amp, detailer)
          • DVD recorder or capture card

Yes, "passthrough" because it passes through the machine, and the DVD recorder is not used as a DVD recorder. It's just being used as another filter device, sort of like a TBC.

Re-creating fake stereo is still fake. I never bother with it. There's nothing inherently wrong with mono audio to me. Most of my favorite stuff mono. Even when stereo is used, it tends to be used poorly. The only good use of stereo that I know of readily is the song "Crazy Train" by Ozzy Osbourne, where several effects bounce between the speakers, and gives it a really unique sound.

The 4-hour mode is not suggested at all. The ONLY exception would be the JVC series DVD recorders, the good models (DR-M10, DR-M100, etc -- LSI Logic chipset generation machines), where the recorded material is low on movement or is cartoon animation. On the JVC machines, the bitrate allocation on SP (2-hour) is the same as 4-hour (LP). On Panasonic machines, the allocation is too low, and you get a ton of blocks and noise. Don't believe the BS marketing hype on the side of the Panasonic boxes -- the four-hour mode is unacceptable and should be avoided at all costs. Some of this is mentioned already on the DVD recorder reviews page at http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-recorders.htm

There are not any HD recorders at the moment, excluding proprietary DVR boxes from satellite or cable companies.

"LOADING" is a generic error message, meaning that something is wrong with the disc or the unit. Be sure you're using Verbatim 16x DVD-R in it, or good 2x DVD-RW media. Anything else will be problematic, in most cases. Most DVD recorders are like this, refusing to work with subpar blanks.

Beyond that, some of the earliest machines had faulty Chinese capacitors. This was not unique to JVC, many companies from the early 2000s ended up with the bad caps. My Panasonic ES10 had bad caps, too, as did an AMD motherboard. It's simply an issue of replacing the faulty caps. You'll need skills with a soldering. I don't have those skills, I had a friend at the local college A/V room do it for $25 plus parts ($5). Bad caps will be bulged and/or leaking, pretty easy to spot in the machine. It's a a cheap easy fix, but most people threw the machines in the trash, or sold them on eBay. Some auction sellers lied about the condition ("tested", but "as is"), others did not ("for parts").

I can create some documentation for this in a few weeks, if you need more on fixing a JVC "LOADING" error (replacing caps).

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  #3  
01-26-2010, 10:09 PM
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Verbatim 16x DVD-R, that is what I am using. I just looked this problem up online and it was very common with these JVC machines, so common that they do a free repair, that was 4 or 5 years ago. Who knows???? I have to call JVC in the morning. I really want to use these filters...

If JVC will not repair them? Should I take them both to a repair shop? They tend to rip you off?


HD recorders are out in Japan, and my friend the UK also has one. Why is it so late getting to the States......

HR-S7900U with this machine if I run my betamax through it will it use the TBC, cause right now it doesn't look like it is.

The on-screen flashing is simply a matter of turning off on-screen display in the JVC menu

In the menu for the VCR, I can't find anything that lets you turn off the screen display.
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  #4  
01-26-2010, 10:27 PM
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Don't call JVC and ask them if they still fix it. "No" should not be a possible answer. Instead, tell JVC that you have one of the faulty JVC decks, and you need to get the free repair done on it. Then ask where to send it. I suggest further pressing your luck, and requesting that they send you a UPS or Fedex pre-paid slip to use for returning it for your free warranty repair, on the known factory-defective unit. These key phrases are important, and none of your questions allow for an answer of "no". If they do try to say it's no longer covered, simply and calmly state that no is not an acceptable answer and again repeat that you need JVC to honor their policies as it relates to repairing this machine. Ask to speak with supervisors continuously, as needed, if needed.

A generic repair shop won't know what to do. It's more likely they'd just break it. If you do anything other than send it to JVC, then it needs to be a self-repair with a soldering pen. (Or friend repair, as it was in my case.)

I'm not aware of any Blu-ray HD recorders right now, outside of Japan. Even then, it appears to mostly be a typical Japanese gadget fad.

Overly-aggressive mafia-like copyright Nazis (MPAA, studios) are why HD recorders are not available yet. They're so afraid you might record an HDTV show instead of buy the fancy overpriced Blu-ray discs months after the show's season ends. Or that you'll record your $5 pay-per-view instead of buying the expensive $25 Blu-ray release. I can understand the desire to profit from their artistic work -- but this desire to control how, where and when people view it has gotten to be ridiculous. And they are losing that war, albeit painfully slow. As you're noticing, it's now impeding technological growth (and the ability to use said technology for legitimate reasons).

The actual name of the setting is "SUPERIMPOSE". Refer to the guide on playback hardware, for information JVC S-VHS VCRs and settings: http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...k-hardware.htm

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  #5  
01-26-2010, 10:46 PM
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I was actually going to call them for the address and drive the machines down to the location. It is harder to say no in person. I think they have one, less than an hour from me....LOL

Ok, I saw superimpose and have that turned on...

I actually tried to get one of those HD recorders from Japan, I had to have it shipped to someone in Japan than to me. I have no friends in Japan...LOL....They will not ship direct. I was not sure on the ones in the UK, if they would work. But HD is HD, they don't have PAL & NTSC with that machine, correct?

My buddy has a region free NTSC & PAL HD recorder, he says it can record 5hours 15minutes XL quality with analogue as opposed to 1 hour on DVD. The Machine was over $1000 in Sterling I think...

The blank disks are high rent.

Last edited by deter; 01-26-2010 at 10:49 PM.
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  #6  
01-26-2010, 11:32 PM
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HD has PAL and NTSC.

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  #7  
01-28-2010, 03:58 AM
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I called JVC, got sick of the computer menu, and ended up calling a local repair guy. I met him at a coffee shop, he replaced the caps. However the problem I think is in the DVD burner itself. I still have the same problems. The person who shipped it left a disk in the machine. That is bad news. I also found a disk log in the menu, this machine has done a lot of recordings. Inside the machine we found out that some of the caps were already replaced. However the machine only crashes when it is recording. It happens at random times. My guess is it has nothing to with circuits. What I am thinking is that when it is burning the dvd, it skips or misses the burn, from a very used lens or whatever burns the data. It can't read what it is writing kind of thing. The JVC machines doesn't know how to handle this so it goes in to loading mode. I gave him the MV5 to repair. However I am calling him in a few hours to get it back. Just going to pull out the DVD burner out of that machine and put it in the MV1. Both machines have almost the same circuit work on the inside....

Next I watched what I was able to record again. It does have those blocks in the screen. Cause I was hitting pause. I do have an HDMI cable running to the TV. S-Video I more than likely would not see them.

Just on normal playback with no recording, I think those filters in the MV1 are active. For sure notice a major difference on the TV. With the beta tapes it plays them a lot better. However the Panasonic machine on some of the VHS tapes is miles better. It almost seems like those filter in the MV1 kill the TBC. On some of the tapes through the JVC VCR to the Panasonic machine it looks almost like digital quality. However that same tape through the MV1, looks sometimes like a normal VCR picture...I don't know....

Are their any DVD recorders that record almost a perfect copy of what is being played on the screen?

Last edited by deter; 01-28-2010 at 04:02 AM.
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  #8  
01-28-2010, 04:18 AM
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Sometimes the bad cap issue went unaddressed for too long, and the problems spread to the mainboard. I don't really understand how that happens -- I'm not an electronics engineer, but I can only assume unregulated power or dirty power -- or whatever it is -- running loose in the system can't be good for it.

Then again, LOADING is so generic. It may very well be the burner having gone bad on you. Replacing is may work fine for you. Indeed, they share many parts.

The Toshiba XS series machines (XS32,XS34,XS35) -- long since gone from the market -- had a hard drive, plus some special filter settings. It was less aggressive than the JVC filters (and did not fix all of the chroma errors), but it's probably as close to "perfect copy of the tape" as you can get. Of course, a perfect copy of the tape will have some/all of the flaws of the original, and is why the JVC is better.

I would agree the Panasonic has a "digital quality" look to it, but that's not necessarily a good thing. It's over processed.

The JVC machines have playback filters, too -- yes. On some models, it can be disabled. My Philips and Toshiba DVD players have similar de-block or "MPEG noise" filters.

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01-28-2010, 04:23 AM
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NOTE:
I moved a bunch of posts into this new thread. It was not even close to the JVC VCR topic anymore.
It turned into a new DVD recorder topic about JVC and Panasonic decks.

Thanks.

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  #10  
01-28-2010, 09:31 PM
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It took me a while to find this.

I think I am just going to get a new unit from the other post.

JVC SR-MV45US (---- It is only $400 on Amazon

Are there any issues with this machine ? Will this thing work for cleaning up these tapes? Will it last for lots of hours of recording?

Swapping the DVD drives didn't work. It wouldn't read the drive, however I could open & close the drive. I even swapped the power supply units. I think I fried something, cause I no longer get any picture coming in.

It is really hard trouble shooting this stuff, however I learned a lot in the last two days, basically how to pull one of these machines apart and put it back together.

I made 1 or 2 mistakes that may have wrecked the unit. However it was broken anyway. The tech guy who did the cap work, he is the one who told me to swap out the power units (I didn't like the idea, but I tried it anyway). He was also trying to get money out of me. I basically gave him $40 for his time (I felt bad for the guy), however he was not worth 50 cents.

I had to meet him in a coffee shop. The owners got pissed when he was out with his sodering iron. He told me he had a TV, nope nothing.

He wanted like $250 for his repair work. I said look, we can't even test this out with no TV. He was reading stuff off his online manual to fix what was wrong. How could he even tell... He going by old case logs....He was like leave me a deposit. Here take the other machine and fix it, than we will talk...

Than he wanted to follow me to my house, and he invited some guy from the coffee shop to come with him. At that point, I told him I had to go to work...

I had to pick up my other machine today. He says meet him at best buy, I get there he is at some bar. I am done with him.........


I got the machine back, he wanted money again for talking a look at it and to tell me the power supply had missing parts...I was like look, it is your job to fix it and that is what you get paid for...Than he was like give me another $40 and I'll swap the DVD drives at least you will know it was done professionally...I was like buddy, what are you talking about, I can do this in 10 minutes.....


It is just hard to find these things new, used you have no idea how many hours of recordings the thing has done. As you know the more you run these recorders the less life they have.

MV1 had a suite against it (that is what he coffee shop repair guy said), plus the machine is from 2004. That is 6 years of use. I wish I would have read up on this, it was one of the machines you listed as really good for this type of work. I am sure it is. I may get another 1 from ebay. Now I got to deal with the person who sold me this broken unit....Fun...

Last edited by deter; 01-28-2010 at 09:36 PM.
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  #11  
01-28-2010, 09:48 PM
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I just bought another MV5 on ebay...This one was only $5. He says the VCR is broken but the DVD player works.....I could care less about the VCR....I have enough parts to now build one of these machines.......
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  #12  
01-28-2010, 10:04 PM
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Some early versions of the JVC DR-MV45US had the same faulty caps, but latter manufactured units (much like the DR-M100S) seem to be flawless. At this point in time, new units would surely be from latter production lines. It's a pro deck, too.

It's a great unit.

The one you're referring to is at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B000OH7RF0 -- and use this link, if you do buy it.

And now, for a rant...

Like I said, those local "repair guys" aren't worth two cents in most cases. They pretend to know about the equipment, but they hover over manuals. Hell, I could do that! You could do that! These charlatans have no experience, I'd just assume trust a high school kid from electronics class. JVC, JVC authorized service centers, or local broadcasting instructors at college tend to be the ONLY people I trust with these items.

I could rant all day about stupid people and stupid businesses, when it comes to computers, electronics and media. Reading it online, reading a manual, taking a class, buying a gadget -- these things do not make one an expert. I'm sure you know this, but they sure don't!

I ripped a service just last night: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...x240-1950.html down in post #7
Some pansies have insisted this is "unprofessional", but I'm quite frankly tired of being undercut in price by people who don't know what the hell they're doing. You'd be amazed at all the butcher jobs we get, having to fix shoddy work by people who didn't know anything about video, photo, print or web. They need to go mop floors or flip burgers, leave the professional work to the professionals.

Anyway....

You made the smart move, leaving the guy in the coffee shop. I don't know about dragging shady characters to my house.

There was no lawsuit against JVC, that guy is full of BS. JVC pre-empted any action by offering free repairs for an unspecified amount of time (and to date, they almost never say no).

The DR-MV1S was manufactured in mid/late 2004, but they were slow to market back then. Plus JVC was more expensive than the lower-priced crap of the time, and sold in smaller volume, in fewer stores. (Toshiba was very much the same, by the way!) Odds are you have a unit sold in early 2005. And even then, DVD recorders proved "too hard" for the masses -- reading is a difficult skill for some, it seems -- so many ended up unused, or used simply as DVD players.

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  #13  
01-28-2010, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deter View Post
I just bought another MV5 on ebay...This one was only $5. He says the VCR is broken but the DVD player works.....I could care less about the VCR....I have enough parts to now build one of these machines.......
Not bad.

Maybe I should get into the DVD recorder buy & resale business? (Nah, doing enough as it is!)

Let me know how it goes.

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  #14  
01-28-2010, 11:24 PM
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http://stores.ebay.com/jaksales

You can buy like 20 broken things from this guy for like nothing.....He is local to you.....I don't know....
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  #15  
01-30-2010, 05:34 PM
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New post from today about JVC and LOADING: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...-dvd-2008.html

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  #16  
02-03-2010, 08:50 PM
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Got the DVD recorder today and it works fine.

What mode should I record in? The 2 hour 30 minute mode? It doesn't seen to have the analog blocks...

Also with these machines you can't delete the recording...Is that correct...

The panasonic passthrough didn't work, the picture had small black dots in it.

The JVC vcr is better than the AG1980, it is not even close. The panasonic picture on the screen seems to be a tad bit larger than the JVC. I have 1 tape that plays bad in the JVC so it needs to be played on the AG1980. As far as sound goes, the JVC VCR cleans it up pretty good. Many tapes on the AG just sound terrible. I know you said to not use video calibration, however I had a tape with a bad sound track, I tried everything, finally turned on video cal and it cleaned it right up.
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02-04-2010, 05:27 PM
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The 2.5 hours setting uses 720x480 with a low bitrate in the 4500-5000k VBR range. Not good. There are blocks. Remember that the JVC also does playback NR (deblock, specifically), so viewing the discs on the same JVC may not be the most reliable way to test. View the discs in another player, or on the computer, to scan for errors.

The best settings -- called "cherry" settings by a few long-time members here -- are 1-hour XP mode (of course), and the 3-hour FR180 mode. Both of these offer "superbit" type quality, the best that an be expected, giving high bitrates to the allocated resolutions.
  • FR180 3-hour is 352x480 (suitable for most all home sources) @ ~4Mb/s
  • XP 1-hour (FR60) is 720x480 (best for homemade DV camera video) @ ~8Mb/s
  • SP 2-hour is, by contrast, a more compressed 720x480 @ ~5.5Mb/s
SP is not "bad', but both XP (again, of course!) and FR180 tend to look much cleaner.

In case you've been reading elsewhere online ...

Some years ago, there was a myth perpetuated in various online forums -- and even some more respected sites, thanks to authors with no actual knowledge, no first-hand experience, and poor references -- that 352x480 was insufficient to capture all the "detail" in VHS or TV receptions. However, the idea that resolution is "lost" at 352x480, when the source is homemade video or TV recordings, is more or less imagined -- a psychological issue. Many times the arguments I saw on other sites got downright ridiculous.

I did a lot of research into this topic, and found that some devices captured poorly at 352x480, and some softwares resized badly to 352x480. So it was not the resolution, bu rather the hardware/software with the problem. I would not that this JVC does NOT have such issues. At most, the LSI+JVC DNR system may soften some areas of the video, and some people confuse loss of noise to be loss of detail. It's not perfect -- sometimes it does slightly soften by a few pixels -- but more often it's legitimate noise removal.

I'll also note that this myth seems to have died down in recent years, as always happens to stupid video/photo myths. It was really bad around 2003-2005, a time frame that (by no coincidence!) the market was saturated by the aforementioned inferior-at-352 hardware and software.

About the Panasonic AG-1980 S-VHS VCR
  • Is your AG-1980P set up correctly for audio? Maybe one of the sliders on the main panel could use tweaking?
  • Have you used a vacuum cleaner on the inputs on back? Maybe there is some garbage interrupting the signal?
Be very careful with that JVC calibration. In the past 12+ or so years, I've found it to be more harmful than not. Be very sure you're monitoring (watching!) a tape with this on. It's easy to miss some of the problems it causes.

You won't get argument from me -- the JVC is better than the Panasonic. The 1980 excels as certain things, but the JVC is an overall better performer, and will almost always see more use.

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  #18  
02-04-2010, 06:44 PM
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This JVC DVD player doesn't have 3 hour mode. 1 hour, 2hours (which actually goes to about 2:10) and 2 hour 32 minutes which I tested and it is 720x480 and 4 hour mode.

It is the best purchase I ever made in my life, $5 !!!!

It may be the HDMI cable upconvert DVD players for playback. (I use 2 different ones)

The JVC VCR picture is a lot cleaner. A lot of the noise is gone, extra trash in the picture, like color bleeding. I did a few DVD's with the Panasonic + JVC recorders and the quality is amazing..Near DVD..except for the blocks, but past 4 feet, you can't see them....

Two of my best tapes, don't play correct in the JVC VCR, when the TBC is marked on, the top of the picture is messed up. One of the recording is like my best one, the picture for VHS is perfect. What I did was played it back with the stabilizer on. I can't really see much difference, and the picture is mint.

I went out and got an s-video cable from Radio Shack. The cable caused back micro dots in the picture. The cable was than returned. The lady at Radio Shack thought I was nuts.....

Last edited by deter; 02-04-2010 at 06:48 PM.
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  #19  
02-12-2010, 12:37 PM
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What is the exact model of that machine? Does it not have any FR mode available? It may be one of the later-generation LG clones, and not one of the prized JVC models often talked about on this site and some others. Then again, if it cleans that much of the image, it can't be an LG (unless it's an LG based on LSI chipsets).

The JVC VCR should clean up the image, yep -- that's very typical.

For those tapes where the TBC caused issues, try it without stabilizer -- basically turn off everything. Leave the static DNR in NORM or AUTO mode, not EDIT, SHARP or SOFT -- and that's it. See how it plays. Sometimes the stabilizer can cause image jitter (vertical jumping), so be careful with it. Monitor the video carefully.

Sometimes those overpriced cables are worse than the cheap add-ins that came with the decks. I don't much care for Monster s-video cables, preferring the Philips cables from Lowe's or Walmart.

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  #20  
02-12-2010, 01:19 PM
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MV5, it has FR mode which is 2h and 30 minutes per disk. It also has SP mode which on this machines runs 2h 10 minutes.

What kind of s-video cables should I get, still need a few more, with all the crap that I have hooked up...

The bad cables were radio shack's brand.....
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