JVC DRM7S "Loading" Problem

[biddenden_sue]

OK, I've read Lord Smurf's sticky about the generic Loading problem in JVCs.

I have to say that I have had my machine since April 2004 and it has served me brilliantly. It's never produced a coaster in its life, and has never failed to do a timed recording.

I've had the "loading" sign come up once or twice before, but it has always been cured by simply unplugging and plugging back in.

This time it happened as I was switching the machine off (no disc inserted). Instead of going off, "Loading" came up on the display. Unplugging and plugging back in won't work, and I can't open the disc drive or bring up any menus onscreen. It looks pretty serious from where I'm sitting.

Is there a known workaround in this situation, or am I looking at getting a replacement? It would be a great shame. We've had some good times together, my JVC and I.

[admin]

Quote:

Unplugging and plugging

How long was it unplugged?
Did you give it an overnight rest before trying to plug it back in?

[biddenden_sue]

I couldn't unplug it overnight last night, because it's on one of those multigang powersurge sockets hidden behind the TV and I couldn't get to it (and I needed to access other items plugged into same during the night from upstairs).

However, I have now unplugged that and will leave it unplugged all day to see if that helps.

[biddenden_sue]

Hope double posting doesn't get me into trouble, but I was worried if I editted my previous post, my update might get missed.

Left machine unplugged for 7 hours today, while kids were at school. Plugged it back in at 4pm, and now it looks VERY dead.

There is a small green light on the front with the word "Video" next to it. I have barely noticed it before. This light is faintly flickering. Nothing else is happening.

No "loading" message, and I can't switch it on, either with the front panel or remote, or open the disc drawer.

Suspect she's a dead'un?

[admin]

No, there's no harm in double posting. You are correct that I would have missed your new information by simply editing the last post made. So that was a good choice on your part. (I'd also add that the idea of "double posting" being bad, as is the view held by some forum admins, is really silly. Talk about control issues!)

Anyway...

This sounds very much like an issue of a capacitor going bad, and it would likely be very obvious on the board, as a bulging or leaking cap. Go ahead and pull out your screwdrivers, take it apart, and have a look around.

By request, a new post by lordsmurf was just made, which further illustrates what bad caps look like.
See http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/show...3029#post13029

I would not trash the DVD recorder, or even consider it "dead" by any means. It simply needs a minor electronics repair. You do not have to send it back to JVC -- any competent electronics geek, student, media lab tech, or even a run-of-the-mill "TV repair" guy could fix this cheaply.

You will not find a better DVD recorder new in stores. The best course of action is a repair, when dealing with these classic and well-liked (well-loved?!) JVC machines.

Now, unfortunately, I can't give you a quick tip on who to call. Repairing obsolete** equipment is never as easy as calling the manufacturer, taking it down to the local Buy-Mart, etc. This will take a little bit of research on your part. Not a lot, just a little. You'll want to pull out a phone book, explain that you need somebody to replace capacitors on a mainboard. Brand names, etc -- not important. Even mentioning that it's DVD recorder isn't really all that pertinent. Any tech that suggests you buy a new unit should simply be hung up on, and you should move on to the next prospect -- that person is a lazy idiot.



** The term "obsolete" is reluctantly used here, because the technology behind the device is not at all obsolete. Indeed, many people still happily watch and even record DVDs, and that will be the status quo for many more years to come. The JVC LSI-based machines were some of the best DVD recorders ever made, due to the JVC processing filters coupled with the LSI Logic chipset. The LSI chips filtered encoded video in a way that created DVDs that looked better than the input sources -- VHS especially. The only reason this deck is obsolete is because JVC decided to discontinue the model, and eventually their entire line of DVD recording products. JVC itself was victim of the recession, with parts of the brand being sold off to interests such as Taiyo Yuden, as well as investment/holdings groups. So no more JVC, as it regards DVD recorders. These machines are only obsolete due to business decisions, and NOT because the technology is in any way "old" or outdated.

[biddenden_sue]

Wow, thank you for such an informative reply.

I'll pull the machine out of the stack under the TV today and remove the lid. The photos that lordsmurf has put up are so useful, I'm sure I can recognise the faulty capacitor.

I had a tentative browse of the net yesterday for a possible replacement machine, and quickly ascertained that it was going to cost between £100-£200, which is a lot of money this close to Christmas! (I'm in the UK)

Now, the issue of replacing the capacitor. I don't think I know any electronics students or hobbyists, unfortunately, but I'll take a look in the yellow pages and see who I can find. I would like to extend this machine's life if at all possible. It has been so reliable!

(Especially in contrast to my other DVD recorder, also bought in 2004 - a Liteon LVW-5006, which after umpteen repairs and part replacements, plus many many coaster in the bin, finally died on me last year)

I'll let you know how I get on.

And thank you for being a sensible forum. As I'm sure you are aware, there are other audio video forums that would possibly suspend or ban an account for the heinous crime of double posting! Therefore I proceeded with extreme caution, especially as I was liaising with an admin.

[biddenden_sue]

Right, I've extracted it from the pile of gadgets under the TV (major task!), and removed the lid. See what you think...

Here she is with her lid off, still in very good condition, after 6 years' hard labour:

Boxwithlidoff.jpg

And here are the main 5 capacitors:

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Now, I can see that the second one is bulging, and therefore definitely needs replacing, but should I be worried about the blue marks on the 2 that are either side of it as well? Is that a sign of early leakage? I wasn't sure.

Also, what is involved in replacing a capacitor yourself? I assume I could pick one up in Maplins (electronics store), and if it is soldered into position, I know we have a soldering iron. If you have a thread showing a how to guide, please link me to it. I'm inclined to think that my husband might be able to do this himself.

Thank you again for all your help, and prompt responses.

[lordsmurf]

The smurfy blue markings are some sort of manufacturing marks, possibly made by techs who were checking each connection when the unit was made. Those look like either grease pencil or marker ink -- I have the same marks on my own DVD recorder units, as well as other devices (computer motherboards, for instance).

All four of the large caps look a bit strange to me -- but the second one is obviously bulging. If you get one swapped out, it may be worthwhile to just get all four of those replaced. (If your husband can do it, however, then one-by-one replacement would be my suggestion -- just fix what breaks, as it breaks.)

Caps are really cheap to buy, just a few dollars (or few quid) for a small bag of them.

The biggest cost comes in paying somebody to do the replacement work. But any competent electronics whiz is not likely to charge more than $25-50 range for that kind of quick work. All it require is some minor skill with a soldering pen, and experience at not making a mess on the board (by having wet solder go everywhere, accidentally connecting things that should not be connected).

A soldering gun is far too big and clunky to work with -- you need a soldering pen specifically designed for electronics boards. Those really are not expensive either, maybe $10-20 apiece. In North America, they're readily available at stores like Fry's Electronics or Microcenter. You'll also want to keep yourself grounded (prevent static), often with a cheap $5-10 wrist strap. The instructions also mention using a metal pick (like a dental pick), but I'm pretty sure my tech just used a paper clip bent out straight.

I could probably do work like this, too, with the right tools and a bit of practice. For the ~$30 it would have run to buy the soldering pen, I was able to just pay a local guy to do it all for me -- that's why I went the route I took. It was done quickly, and I had it back in service that same day.

As far as how it's done, I'll post another reply here in a second...

[lordsmurf]

This is one documented method on how to do it...
NOTE: I tried to streamline and remove bad writing/punctuation/grammar/spelling from the badcaps.net instructions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badcaps.net (re-edited by LS @ The Digital FAQ)

Most motherboards are comprised of a 6-layer PCB with very tiny solder pads and holes. A 6-layer PCB has a very small tube going through the entire thickness of the motherboard, where caps are soldered, ensuring the capacitor is making solid contact with the foil traces of the motherboard. This means that the entire hole is filled with solder, and not just the visible surfaces.

The solder needs to be removed without removing or damaging the tube or the foil around it. If the tube or foil are damaged, it's instant death to your board! Removing the actual capacitor is relatively simple. Clearing the hole of the remaining solder in order to install the new component is what can be a nightmare. If you have the proper tools (solder pen with sucker, stainless steel metal pick or dentist pick, anti-static wrist strap), and patient, you will be able to do this without damaging or destroying your motherboard.

To remove the capacitors, follow these steps:

1. Preheat your soldering iron to roughly 450 degrees Celsius and connect yourself with a grounding strap to the motherboard. You don't want to zap your board with static electricity while you work on it.
2. Choose a capacitor and heat the POSITIVE lead up until the solder melts. With the iron still on the POSITIVE lead, push the capacitor toward the NEGATIVE lead until the POSITIVE lead is free of the board, and remove the iron from the board.
3. Now do the same to the NEGATIVE lead, and the capacitor will be free from the board.
4. Now to clean the holes out. Reheat the hole on the back side of the board, if necessary, and melt a little fresh solder into the hole to smooth it. Then using your solder sucker on the front side of the hole, suck the solder from the hole. When you are done doing that, the hole should be nice, round, and able to see light through it if held up. (NOTE: DO NOT TRY THE SOLDER SUCKER MORE THAN TWICE! If you do, you can damage your board! If solder is still in the hole, then you need to reheat the hole until the solder is melted, then insert the needle pick into the hole as far as it will fit without forcing it, going all the way through, emerging from the other side. Since the pick is stainless steel, the solder will not adhere to it. Gently spin and wiggle the pick around until it breaks loose, then remove it from the hole. Use an Exacto knife and gently scrape the dry solder from the hole.)

Remove all bad capacitors before installing new ones. This is important later on in the project, just to make sure that the same amount of replacement caps went back in the board as came out. Trust me, on a board with a lot of caps, it's easy to overlook even the smallest of details. If you need to, draw yourself a diagram of what went where.

... and then alternate methods (or streamlined instructions) can be found in some of those really long and tedious threads that I linked to in the JVC DVD recorder repair FAQ. The JVC DVD Recorder Repair FAQ is at http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/show...-dvd-2008.html

More on installation in the next reply...

[lordsmurf]

And here's instructions for installation...
NOTE: I tried to streamline and remove bad writing/punctuation/grammar/spelling from the badcaps.net instructions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badcaps.net (re-edited by LS @ The Digital FAQ)

There is only one thing you really have to be cautious of -- the polarity of the new capacitors. If you look at the marking on the motherboard, where the old capacitor was installed, you will notice a half-moon shaped white shaded area there. The lead that is in that white area usually represents the NEGATIVE pole of the capacitor. On the actual capacitor, the negative side is clearly marked with a minus sign running down the NEGATIVE side. If the polarity is wrong, the damage can be catastrophic to your board! (Literally, components on the board may explode.) However, the markings can vary from motherboard to motherboard, so pay attention to the markings on the board AND the markings on the original caps as you remove them.

To install the new caps:

1. Heat your soldering iron to 450 degrees Celsius.
2. Insert the new capacitor fully into the hole, NOTING THE POLARITY IS CORRECT!!!
3. Heat the lead of the capacitor and apply solder until you see it fill the hole.
4. Use your side cutters or dykes and trim the lead off.
5. Do that to all the caps you're replacing, and THAT'S IT!! YOU'RE DONE!!Reconnect and ENJOY your STABLE Motherboard!!!!

Side Notes:
Some of the aftermarket capacitors are taller than the low-profile cheapo caps used by by the manufacturer. Locating exact replacements is futile. If the new capacitor is taller than the old one, it may interfere with how the unit components all fit together. The solution to this is to simply solder the cap in laying on its side. Insulate the lead with a dab of glue from your hot glue gun.

From what I've been told, the whole replacement process sounds scarier than it really is.

For comparison purposes, somebody mentioned how complicated instructions seem to be on microwave ovens, and I remember my grandmother's reluctance to use that "new fangled device" some many years ago. Even that lamp I bought this past summer had insane instructions that made the simple process of plugging it into a wall outlet for power, and screwing in a new light bulb, seem like a task that required a doctorate degree!

So if your husband is a do-it-yourself type of person, and you have confidence he won't bork the unit, then let him do it! If kids in high school can work well with these tools, educated adults certainly should be able to.

Hope that helps.

[biddenden_sue]

Thank you for the very detailed response. Very much appreciated. We clearly do not have the necessary equipment. Not sure what the next move is, but will let you know if I get it fixed.