I've got no reason to suspect it to be otherwise. It looks GREAT hooked directly to monitor. Even on problem tapes, the image really is quite good all things considered. but ya, I'm going to keep trying stuff.
Does anyone even test/repair vcr decks anymore? |
Repair VCRs? Yes, there are fix-it shops here and there.
I repair our equipment, as time permits, and the need arises. Only the worst errors require outside assistance, usually to re-solder components, or to get a second opinion look-over. An excellent shop is Jots Electronics in Arlington, Texas (Dallas area). |
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Having first read this thread over a week ago, I saw what appeared to be 4 strikes in a row with the current AVT-8710 crop from B&H -- bad batch? -- and so I decided to go Tuco's route of ordering the CTB-100 (new) on eBay from "weesolutions" (Ambery), in the hope that the silver box with the blue stickers would be ""the one that works" ... (Although I actually would have preferred to go with B&H, since I've ordered numerous things from them before) ... And when I first tried out the CTB-100 last night, I was ready to send it back because of the way it freaked out on the JVC blue screen -- until I went back to re-read this thread tonight, and I noticed the quotes above ... I've only used the CTB-100 with a single pre-recorded very "clean-playing" S-VHS tape -- a "Picture Perfect" test/reference tape played on the SR-V10U that I also just bought -- and the CTB-100 seemed to have no effect (negative or positive) on that tape's playback ... So before I worry too much about this CTB-100 (or send it back), I guess my question is -- What kind of "blue-screen freak-out" should I expect? What I'm getting now on the JVC blue screen with the CTB-100 is a rapid flickering, sometimes combined with other weird stuff, like a partial videotape frame -- left over in its frame buffer? -- and some strange blue curves at the top, and part of the screen "dimmed" sometimes ... But nothing like the bizarre "ghosting" of the OP's (first) AVT-8710 ... As Tuco said, "I can live with a messed up JVC OSD" -- if that's all it is ... Is this kind of "blue-screen freak-out" just par for the course? Thanks, Kevin |
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Thanks, Tuco! That's really useful to know ... :)
"My CTB-100 goes nuts on the JVC OSD" is another great way to describe it ... After my previous post here, I put the JVC OSD menu through its paces -- with the CTB-100 in the mix -- and got even more bizarre behavior (too difficult to describe here) ... However, since the CTB-100 does NOT seem to have adversely affected actual video playback, I'm a lot less concerned now about it being "broken" ... So now the relevant question for me is -- Does it actually work??? Is there any easy way of telling whether the CTB-100 is actually "doing its job" -- short of searching my entire tape collection for one that plays "badly enough" for the CTB-100 to make a difference? I reckon I must have some like that -- or I wouldn't have considered buying the CTB-100 in the first place -- but finding such a tape anytime soon could be a "challenge", and I have a limited time frame for returning this ... Here are my current (working!) resources: -- one JVC SR-V10U VCR, with a second one supposedly on the way -- one ATI 600 USB card supposedly on the way -- one (Toshiba) VHS VCR -- one (JVC) DVD player -- a number of pre-recorded (presumably copy-protected?) S-VHS and VHS tapes -- a number of home-recorded S-VHS and VHS tapes (that I'd rather not have to search through) Thanks, Kevin |
The only freaking out my AVT-8710 does with the JVC OSD is the "checkboard" pattern seen in this thread: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/331681
The problem can be traced to how the video capture chip in the AVT-8710 and other TBCs handles "240p" video. It should also be noted that the glitch only happens with the S-Video input and not the composite input. The artifact also happens when you connect old game consoles that output 240p (like the Super Nintendo) to the AVT-8710 via S-video. |
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So, what I'm personally taking from that thread is this quote from lordsmurf: Quote:
Thanks, Kevin |
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Right now, testing with a clean recording isn't going to give you any insight as to whether or not its working. At least you know it isn't harming the picture, so thats a good sign. |
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The only flaw in the 2-hour playback was some very isolated "tearing" at the top of the screen once in a while, which I don't know whether the CTB-100 would -- or is supposed to -- fix ... Other than that, the playback looked and sounded very much like a broadcast or a DVD (with all SR-V10U features turned off, except for TBC/DNR) ... So, is the sporadic freeze-framing by the CTB-100, when playing an excellent S-VHS recording, to be expected -- or is this a bad sign? Kevin |
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However, I noticed last night that my CTB-100 actually made a source look worse when I was capturing an old 1981 home recording, which is seriously degraded. I stopped capping it until I can stabilize it better (might not be able to) and get the image adjustments just right, but I did do some raw tests. See clips below( no audio ): NOTE: VCR's built-in "TBC" and DNR were disabled, except where labeled otherwise. 1. SR-V10U -> ATI TV Wonder 600 USB Direct link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30164492/1.SRV10U_No_TBC.mpg Picture is unstable and you can see flickering from where the capture card choked on the signal. 2. SR-V10U -> CTB-100 -> ATI TV Wonder 600 USB Direct link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30164492/2.S...ith_CTB100.mpg Connecting the CTB-100 made things 10x worse. Increased vertical jitter and frozen fields; virtually unwatchable. 3. SR-V10U ( Picture Stabalizer ON) -> ATI TV Wonder 600 USB ( NO CTB-100 ) Direct link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30164492/3.S..._No_CTB100.mpg I took the CTB-100 out of the loop and tried using the VCR's picture stabilization feature. This reduced the vertical jumping a bit, but still "jitterbugged". 4. SR-V10U ( Built-in TBC/DNR ON) -> CTB-100 -> ATI TV Wonder 600 USB Direct link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30164492/4.S...ND_CTB100_.mpg Put the CTB-100 back in the loop and turned on the VCR's built-in TBC/DNR. Fewer frozen fields and jitter than with no CTB-100, but still bad. 5. SR-V10U ( Built-in TBC/DNR OFF, Picture Stabilizer ON) -> CTB-100 -> ATI TV Wonder 600 USB Direct link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30164492/5.S...bilization.mpg I finally had to combine the CTB-100 with the SR-V10U's built-in picture stabilizer to get a semi-decent result. Still a few freeze issues, not far fewer than any of the previous methods. Now I'm beginning to wonder if this is an issue with the CTB-100 or some other variable. VCR and cables have been ruled out. Tried a TV Wonder 600 PCIe and WinTV HVR-1600 and got the same results. The tape also plays fine on a regular CRT. I know the CTB-100 has helped in the past, so maybe this tape is just beyond the CTB-100's capabilities? |
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So, what do you think (Tuco)? Should I just (try to!) return/exchange the CTB-100 now, or is there some other course of action you'd recommend? Thanks, Kevin |
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My CTB-100 I know helps on some sources and makes others worse, so until I have other TBCs to compare it to I am going to withhold judgement on this unit. I do know one thing for certain: it works better than the unit from B&H that I had previously. These TBC's aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so you can't really lose out (except for shipping costs) if you decide to return it. Hope that helps! |
I'm in process of doing 3 things right now:
- captures of a "normal" AVT-8710 that works fine, including the JVC blue screen - scanning the Elite Video BVP-4 Plus proc amp manual - writing the advanced ATI 600 USB capture guide A lot of it was done last week, but still not 100% on any of the three as of yet. Trying to get that done this week. |
Your CTB-100 doesn't seem to be working right. It looks like the frame buffer is screwed up somehow, holding onto a field instead of updating it with new video. I had a similar tape (a dub of a home video recorded in 1984), and had zero issues with the AVT-8710 I have. I have NEVER seen the AVT-8710 freeze the last "good" frame of video when it encounters a bad dropout in the tape, it always goes to the color bars (on VCRs that don't have bluescreens, its annoying to see those bars flicker on the screen of the final product, but I can edit it out). I would be interested to see the insides of these units, its likely newer runs have different chips vs. the "good and working" old ones. High res photos of the inside of the AVT-8710 are up on this board if you want to compare.
In terms of actual horizontal jitter correction, the CTB-100/AVT-8710 is fairly weak, if you noticed the Digipure TBC does a MUCH better job of fixing those errors. It does correct some of the vertical jumping that you are seeing with the stabilizer off. The most important thing about the CTB-100 is that it provides a clean and continuous video signal for the video capture card to lock onto so that it doesn't drop frames. |
For reference, these are the chips that power my circa 2004 AVT-8710
Video input/digitizer (IC1): Phillips SAA7114H Video output(IC5): Phillips SAA7129H ROM? (IC6): Labelled LTB-100 V2.0 A0411 There is also a jumper on the board labelled INT/EXT... it should be jumped for INT. I'm guessing this is for the genlock option on higher end models, INT likely references "internal clock". |
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I think I still have more than a week to decide about my CTB-100, and I did just get my ATI 600 USB card today -- and therein lies another story for the forum (but not just yet!) -- and I do have several more VCR's on the way (plus a bid on another one) ... So I think I'll just wait a bit on returning it, while I keep experimenting with other tapes, with other VCR's, and with trying to actually capture video instead of just watch it ... :cool: Kevin P.S. NJRoadfan, I think your latest posts here were probably meant for Tuco, but do they also apply to the frequent "freeze-frame" situation with my CTB-100? Thanks! |
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Thanks NJRoadfan! I'll crack open my CTB-100 later tonight and compare the chips along with photos.
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But thanks for the ideas there! :thumb: It sounds like they would also apply to my situation ... Kevin |
I just cracked open my CTB-100 and here is what I found ( sorry, I haven't taken pictures yet ):
1. IC1: Phillips SAA7114H ( no difference ) 2. IC5: Phillips SAA7129AH ( Your's: SAA7129H ) 3. IC6: LTB101 v2.1 S1101 ( Your's: LTB-100 V2.0 A0411 ) As for the video output circuit, did you mean to say SAA7129AH or SAA7129H (no A )? Just checking in case it was a typo. I haven't compared mine to the high-res photos of the AVT-8710 on this forum yet due to lack of time, but I'll compare them tomorrow. I just wanted to throw this out there for now. Thanks again, Dave |
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