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  #61  
05-24-2011, 09:41 PM
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Also, here's that post: AVT-8710 TBC specs?

Small images are in-post, and the high resolution shots are inside the attached RAR archive file.
That was posted almost two years ago.


LS EDIT: Still have that same TBC, works fine.

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  #62  
05-24-2011, 09:47 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Its a SAA7129H, no "A", the chip you have is likely just a revised version. IC3 and 4 appear to be RAM chips, mine are made by KOL. Definitely a later ROM version, on yours. Take a look at IC2, there should be a 4 digit number printed on it. Its a CPLD (the brains of the device), so the added number is likely a programming version number. Mine says "8401". It sounds like the current crop may have faulty ROMs or CPLDs, the only way is to see what the other faulty units have inside. The biggest problem is going to be finding someone at Cypress to fix it and send out revised units.
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  #63  
05-24-2011, 09:56 PM
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I may need to make noise on this issue. I know exactly what to do, too.
RMA with B&H and snide eBay sellers just isn't doing it for me.

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  #64  
05-24-2011, 11:24 PM
Tuco Tuco is offline
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OK, here are some photos of the CTB-100 assembly. Sorry if the photos are bad; I don't do much photography. High-res photos are in the attached RAR file.

1.jpg

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TBC-1? Manufacture date 2/25/2011?

2.jpg

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3.jpg

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4.jpg


Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
IC3 and 4 appear to be RAM chips, mine are made by KOL. Definitely a later ROM version, on yours.
IC3 and IC4 on my unit are made by Averlogic. These two IC's appear to play a role in the field buffer circuitry( clue? ). See: http://www.averlogic.com/AL440B.asp or attached PDF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
Take a look at IC2, there should be a 4 digit number printed on it. Its a CPLD (the brains of the device), so the added number is likely a programming version number. Mine says "8401".
The CPLD on this board appears( correct me if I'm wrong ) to be an Altera EPM3064A.
http://www.altera.com/cgi-bin/devsea...0&y=0&site=www ( also attached as PDF )

Thanks for everyone's help! Hopefully we can put the nail in this coffin once and for all.


Attached Files
File Type: rar CTB100_Assembly.rar (14.95 MB, 11 downloads)
File Type: pdf altera_3000.pdf (335.1 KB, 5 downloads)
File Type: pdf averlogic_al440b.pdf (127.1 KB, 3 downloads)
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  #65  
05-25-2011, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
Thanks for everyone's help! Hopefully we can put the nail in this coffin once and for all.
And drive a stake through its heart, too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
One way to test these units is to feed them 100% perfect video, use the S-video output from a cable box or ATSC tuner. If the CTB-100 still has problems with 100% perfect NTSC video, then its faulty.
Would the (S-video) output of a DVD player be another way of getting "100% perfect NTSC video"? I don't have a cable box or tuner, since I don't watch TV ...

Kevin
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  #66  
05-25-2011, 04:47 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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DVD players work fine too.
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  #67  
05-25-2011, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
DVD players work fine too.
I would suggest a DVD player, using a copied commercial DVD (all copy protections stripped), over a cable box. Cable is still noisy and somewhat erratic. Quite a few satellite boxes and cable boxes, to be perfectly blunt about it, suck at providing ideal "best quality" signals on output. For example, Dish Network, DirecTV, Charter -- I'm not a fan of their gear at all.

The DVD player, with a known-perfect video sources, would be ideal for such a test. It removes variables.

(Note: You've heard some of us talk about valid arguments for being able to copy retail DVDs; this is one example. You're able to make it a "test disc" in certain scenarios, and it therefore becomes a valuable tool. Quite a few commercial DVDs have test patterns, THX logos, etc -- all of which can be useful for calibration and testing of analog components, and A>D / D>A related testing. Some are hidden, some are not.)

On-topic rant: Just what we needed, more confusion. I can see eBay and Craigslist questions already: "Yes, I'd like to buy your TBC. Can you open it up and photo the board so I can verify it has the 'good chips' on it."

Oy!

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  #68  
05-25-2011, 11:24 PM
newkt newkt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
I would suggest a DVD player, using a copied commercial DVD (all copy protections stripped), over a cable box. Cable is still noisy and somewhat erratic. Quite a few satellite boxes and cable boxes, to be perfectly blunt about it, suck at providing ideal "best quality" signals on output. For example, Dish Network, DirecTV, Charter -- I'm not a fan of their gear at all.

The DVD player, with a known-perfect video sources, would be ideal for such a test. It removes variables.
Well, fortunately, the only option I HAVE is a DVD player, so I used that to play a burned "TVblink.com" DVD -- see post #13 of this thread -- and ran it through my CTB-100 and into my TV ... This configuration is analogous to the one I tried before, with my SR-V10U VCR playing my "very clean" 1989 S-VHS recording -- which had caused the CTB-100 to "freeze-field" multiple times per minute ...

But there was no such problem with the video output from (the dynamic tests on) this DVD -- no "frozen fields" at all (viewing, not capturing) ... So I guess that means that there's something about the VCR and/or tape that my CTB-100 can't handle -- either inherently or defectively?

Kevin
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  #69  
05-26-2011, 02:05 PM
newkt newkt is offline
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Here's a couple photos of the back and inside of my CTB-100, with a high(er)-resolution photo of the inside attached at the bottom of this post ...

Note that Tuco's S/N = 201102250012, and my S/N = 201102250016 ...

_CTB-100_1.jpg

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Attached Files
File Type: zip _CTB-100_2_HIRES.zip (1.15 MB, 8 downloads)
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  #70  
05-26-2011, 02:13 PM
Tuco Tuco is offline
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Thanks newkt! Anyone with a newer AVT-8710 want to post the inside of their unit?
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  #71  
05-26-2011, 04:55 PM
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Here's a better photo of the hard-to-see markings on some of the CTB-100 chips (again. with higher-resolution photo attached at the bottom of this post):

_CTB-100_3.jpg


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File Type: zip _CTB-100_3_HIRES.zip (927.0 KB, 5 downloads)
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  #72  
05-26-2011, 07:30 PM
newkt newkt is offline
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After my last post above, I realized that those "hard-to-see" markings on the CTB-100 chips were still too hard to see!
So I finally had to resort to using the flash -- at just the right angle! -- to capture those last details ...
As before, a higher-resolution attachment follows ...

_CTB-100_4.jpg


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File Type: zip _CTB-100_4_HIRES.zip (989.4 KB, 7 downloads)
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  #73  
05-26-2011, 08:03 PM
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Yeah, the camera can really limit you when trying to takes shots like this.

It helps that I have one of these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B002SQKVD0
And can use a lens like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B000EOSHGQ
Add a 2x for more distance.

Can photograph a bug's butt from 10 feet.

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  #74  
05-26-2011, 08:29 PM
newkt newkt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Yeah, the camera can really limit you when trying to takes shots like this.

It helps that I have one of these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B002SQKVD0
And can use a lens like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B000EOSHGQ
Add a 2x for more distance.

Can photograph a bug's butt from 10 feet.
Ye gods, mon!!! You must be RICH -- or at least VERY gainfully employed!!!

I'm still using my first (and only) digital camera, circa 2003 -- a 3-MP Olympus C-750 UltraZoom (10x optical) that cost $500 back then ...
Camera technology has left me in the dust ... But it's still better than a cheap point-n-shoot!

Kevin

P.S. Actually, I decided that I was gonna have to take that last pic when I realized that I couldn't even READ the tiny print on those chips ...
I guess I've reached "a certain age" ...

Last edited by newkt; 05-26-2011 at 08:37 PM. Reason: added P.S.
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  #75  
05-26-2011, 08:59 PM
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No, not rich. It's just one of the tools required to work as a photographer in the field. With a low-end camera, it's hard to get the best shots. No good shots, no work. It's a bit of an evil cycle, really. Spend money to make money. Or more accurately, spend money to try to make money. Not much different from having to own a TBC to get adequate results.

Hopefully with all these TBC images, we can arrive at a good conclusion.

I'll be creating my test clips later tonight.

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  #76  
05-26-2011, 09:17 PM
newkt newkt is offline
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Of course! You're a professional photographer! Please excuse my ignorance -- I really should have known, or at least guessed ...

Well, at any rate, you should have enough CTB-100 pix to work with now ...
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  #77  
05-26-2011, 10:37 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Us poor folk use a cheap trick to get high res PCB shots... a flatbed scanner. The only catch is that it has to have a CCD imager, not CIS. CIS imagers in scanners can't handle the depth (the boards don't lay flat against the glass).
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  #78  
06-02-2011, 12:44 AM
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I called and got an RMA for refund on my AVT. I told the guy what was going on and he said there was no way for anyone at B&H to follow up with me if they got the problem sorted out. not impressed.

Tuco, i'm getting similar results as your clips but worse. the JVC by itself with all processing turned on doesnt look bad considering how bad the source is, but the capture device is showing dropped frames. The ATI 600 is MUCH better quality but still drops. when I throw the AVT in the mix, once the first frame ghosts, it gets progressively worse.

so for fun I plugged in an old POS emerson dvd -r/-rw I bought from walmart on clearance back in 2006 that resides in the guest bedroom... what do you know? no dropped frames.

With all the issues and the price tag of these AVT units, unless you guys are getting a kickback, I'd recommend something else. There must be a million of these dvd recorders out there for cheap. sure you have a recommended list for these too, but from where i'm sitting, the Emerson isnt degrading the sharpness/color of good tapes and makes the capture device happy on the bad ones. I will do some more testing but I dont foresee even trying to buy another AVT unit.

for those interested, here are the pics of this latest unit i'm sending back:
S/N 2238406013982



Attached Files
File Type: rar AVT8710 chipset photos.rar (2.95 MB, 22 downloads)
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  #79  
06-02-2011, 01:26 AM
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Try this, then:

VCR > Emerson DVD recorder > ATI 600 USB capture

The Emerson DVD recorder has a lousy image quality for the MPEG-2 recording, but could act as a frame sync for passthrough. The Panasonic ES10 is best known as a "passthrough recorder" due to its "virtual TBC" clean-up functionality (remove tearing, for example), but it also has a full/partial frame sync -- and that allows it to sometimes replace an external TBC. In the case of the ES10, of course, it's not suggested because it's not transparent like an external TBC should be. Your Emerson may also have sufficiently strong frame sync abilities, which provide constant signal, and thus allows a capture without dropped frames. Technically speaking, all DVD recorders should have some degree of frame synchronizing going on, but where it happens in the path, and how strong/well it works are the main variables. Therefore not all DVD recorders can act as frame sync, as some people mistakenly suggest in other forums.

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  #80  
06-09-2011, 10:35 PM
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So my AVT 8710 had the same problem as the very first pic of this thread (ordered from b&h) with my JVC9900. So it is going back tomorrow. Do I replace it or just go with the data video TBC 1000? It is quite a bit more $ but I figure once I am done I can resell it?
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