Is my new AVT-8710 DOA? (screenshots/clips of error)
 

Thread update!

A problem with AVT-8710 models has been confirmed by Site Staff on page 6. We have video clips proving the problems, and thanks to input from NJRoadfan, we believe we know exactly which chip on the mainboard is malfunctioning. Read through the first 6 pages to understand what is happening, how to see if your TBC has the flaw, and solutions on how to initiate returns (especially if you're dealing with an idiot eBay seller, as opposed to a reliable merchant like B&H).

Note: I only made this update because a few people on other sites, and even this site, have been crying lately that this thread is "too long" (boo hoo). I've seen threads on forums that were well into dozens or hundreds of pages long, so I can't say I agree with the idea that 6 pages is "too long". Stop being lazy. Video is not a profession or hobby for anybody that can't take time to read.

Also... You must be logged in to see images or download attachments. (Not a member? Register now!)

Thanks, -lordsmurf


__________________________________________________ _________________


Ok, first of all this site is awesome and I will be donating shortly...

My gear: JVC 9911> AVT-8710 > Elite BVP-4 Plus > Pinnacle 510 USB > i5 750 @ 3ghz, 16gb ram, 4TB raid yadda yadda. All connections are S-Vid.

All of the video gear *except* the pinnacle was purchased after MANY hours of reading this and a few other sites. the pinnacle was purchased by a family member long before this project go as serious as I am now... I hope it wont be a deal breaker!

The AVT-8710 just arrived in the mail and I'm worried its DOA. I'm getting horrible ghosting and what looks like interlacing lines or power supply noise all the time. What do you think of these screen shots (from pinnacle):

Attachment 1384

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/imag...nnacleth-1.jpg

and this from vdub:

Attachment 1387

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/imag...vtvdubth-1.jpg

and these without the AVT-9710 inline (pinnacle, then Vdub)

Attachment 1385

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/imag...nnacleth-1.jpg

Attachment 1386

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/imag...vpvdubth-1.jpg


(all split lines are from BVP... it seems i need to adjust the bleed on this unit)

I tried putting the BVP and AVT on their own outlet and results were the same. The S-vid cables are generic cables out of DirecTV setup boxes. I have shielded/gold plated cables en-route from monoprice.com

Very discouraging to say the least.

I passed over a used TBC-1000 for the same price as the AVT-8710 just because of the mixed info I got from both on this website. I can still get a TBC-1000 for the same price as the AVT-8710 for the next day or two if I want.

Please help1

Try this:

1. JVC 9911> TV set
2. JVC 9911> AVT-8710 > TV set
3. JVC 9911> Elite BVP-4 Plus > TV set
4. JVC 9911> AVT-8710 > Elite BVP-4 Plus > TV set
5. JVC 9911> Elite BVP-4 Plus > AVT-8710 > TV set

... be sure to test all the wires, rotating them around in the #1 and #2 configurations. There is a such thing as bad cables. I throw away coax RG56, RG6, composite, component, s-video and even HDMI cables every year, it seems. That includes Monster cables, too. (Not that the cables only last a year -- I've had some for more than a decade -- but each year I inevitably run across some that have gone bad.)

Also consider testing composite connections. All composite! Don't mix composite/s-video in a workflow, as there can be problems. (The Elite BVP4+ has a known luminance issue, for example, when inputting one, and outputting the other.)

The Pinnacle 510 USB is a somewhat junky little box, so let's set it aside for testing the other known-good gear. Let's remove the computer, too, for the moment. See if your other devices all look good, passing signals directly to a TV.

Then we can come back to pros and cons of the Pinnacle 510 USB box.

while waiting for your reply I did more testing on my own.

tested all Svid cables with JVC 9911 > 510 USB > PC

all cables yielded same result - good clean images

so I tried:

JVC 9911 > AVT-8710 > USB 500 > PC
JVC 9911 > AVT-8710 > BVP-4 plus > USB 500 > PC

on both configurations, if I load a fairly good tape, everything looks fine. when I load a 'well worn' tape THAT is when the AVT-8710 craps out. once the bad tape starts dropping frames the AVT-8710 goes into 'ghost mode' and never recovers. EVERYTHING gets the ghost effect, including VCR menus and different tapes. Only way to get the unit to return to normal is to unplug, wait and plug back in.

Kind of ironic that the one function the AVT-8710 should perform causes it to take a dump.

I tried disabling ALL JVC 9911 functions (TBC, R3 etc) and putting the deck in Edit mode... With this configuration, the AVT-8710 ghosted in the same spots, just a few frames later.

This is not heat related either. The AVT-8710 isnt getting hot and it will ghost even if its cold/first turned on.

I'm still thinking RMA or see if I can still get the TBC-1000...

Skip the PC --- go to a TV. Let's remove the PC variable entirely.

The DataVideo TBC-1000 is not a better TBC. Not really. It's not without quirks of its own.
As the saying goes, 'the grass is always greener'.

What does "well worn" mean for the tape -- what sort of errors?

looks like some flagging and other time errors.

screen shots were pulled with JVC 9911 in edit mode, all enhancements off

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/error.gif

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/imag...led1seth-1.jpg

Attachment 1518

Attachment 1519

and the only tv i have in the house with svid on it is on a wall mount in my master bathroom... and its a CHEAP lcd tv that has crappy output on DVD's much less a VCR. this less then ideal for your desired test.

i take it you are concerned the pinnacle box is introducing its own time errors? IMO no matter what issues the capture device may or may not have, that wont effect the AVT-8710 going kaput.

Looks like a bad cable in the mix, you should have ZERO ghosting on the VCR's menus if you directly connected it to the capture card. The AVT-8710 looks faulty too. Here is what my menus looks like through the AVT-8710 (no proc amp in the chain). Note that its nice and sharp, no ghosting at all.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1302744253

Also, are the lines where the filtering from the proc-amp ends supposed to be wavy?

The proc amp is an ebay purchase... I was concerned with that as well. New cables should be in tomorrow. I might have to bring the deck and proc amp up to the bathtub (master bath tv) to see if the lines still appear out of whack... I believe the admin is thinking the pinnacle box is adding to the shift. Gonna be a pita but its looking like a necessity.

I wonder how long B&H allows for returns ...

I've never seen a wavy-lined BVP Plus proc amp. However, it may not be of any concern, if everything else seems to work. It's worth removing from the chain, for troubleshooting. Note that there are BVP adjustment guides on this site, in the forum. Search for them. The BVP opens up, and has adjustment screws inside.

The Pinnacle could be adding distortions, because it's faulty.

The only way to troubleshoot is to remove variables one by one. And removing the computer and capture card is a good start. Go directly to a television, VCR to TV. Then add in the TBC, then the proc amp, etc. See when problems start to happen.

The VCR directly into the capture card should not be anything but clean and clear.

___________

NOTE: B&H is closing for the Jewish holidays from April 18 (this Monday) to April 27. So you'd have to RMA by Friday morning or Sunday. B&H is closed Friday afternoon and Saturday because of the Jewish Sabbath. And then return during the coming week. You won't have a new one until the end of the month or next month. That's one of the downsides to using B&H -- they close too much. (I'm all for freedom of religion, but at some point, it gets to be semi-ridiculous, I think. A professional store that closes so much? Including the online store!? Not very professional to me. A nuisance, really.)

Unfortunately, they're the ONLY reliable source for this specific TBC. I would not buy it anywhere else.

Realistically, those "half dozen" holidays equate to quite a few days. In all, B&H is closed for at least a few months per year, cumulatively.
Buy from Amazon when you can, buy from B&H when you must.

SO, cables *should* be arriving later today, however I did decide to do some testing before work...

added equipment to the mix: Konka LCD tv and magnavox mwd 200 ga dvd player. both are fairly crappy but both "feature s-video" and composite connections... ONLY. i've had the MWD hooked to my samsung 7 series via composite and it looked ok so I guess I shouldnt bash it too hard.

so testing:

one thing i did notice is that the video stream that is displayed in the previews for both vdub and pinnacle studio look worse then what the 510 usb actually captures. so all screen shots were lifted from media player.

MWD > 510 USB > vdub > huffyuv > media player

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/imag...10vdubth-1.jpg

MWD > 510 USB > pinnacle studio (DV mode) > media player

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/imag...10pinnth-1.jpg

cables *could* still be an issue, but I have scrounged my boxes and came up with 5 generic svid cables and they all had this same result.

I think the 510-usb is looking like a good garage sale candidate... lordsmurf, what is the usb stick you always recommend? I cant remember right now. GRRR more money to spend.

second test: MWD (same original copy shrek 2)> AVT-8710 > Konka
...stupid AVT was tripping all over itself. the image was blurring, ghosting, freezing bah bah bah.

third test: using a purchased copy of anaconda, why anaconda? I dont think it was ever actually watched, for obvious reasons... HA!
9911 > Konka image was good and as clean as can be expected from konka
9911 > AVT-8710 > konka image was the same or worse as dvd source.

AVT-8710 is going back for RMA IMMEDIATELY. One thing that REALLY freaks it out is the menu functions for both the MWD and 9911. on the 9911 when you first hit menu, the first option is automatically highlighted red. if you move down one, the original option still appears selected (ghosted) and the second option is also selected but is a lighter shade then before. if scroll back up, it looks normal again (no ghosting of second selection, first selection is bright red not washed out).

Once cables arrive I will re-test MWD > 510 USB just for due diligence but i'm not going to hold my breath.

thanks for the help so far.

which would you pick?

For a new external capture card?
The ATI 600 USB stick: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B0035BJGYW

Excellent card for AVI capturing (PAL or NTSC), or MPEG-2 capturing (NTSC only).

thanks.... thats what I thought. ebay for $30. btw that matrox I mentioned is on ebay right now too if anyone is interested.

new AVT-8710 will be here monday.

Hopefully your eBay purchase came with everything that's needed. Most of what I see is just the stick -- it's missing the bundle cables required for s-video/composite + audio inputs. And then if you wanted to use it as a PVR, it needs to come with the remote and antenna. Software manuals and driver/software discs wouldn't hurt, either.

There are some things that eBay just isn't great at. Complete used gear is one of them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-TV-Wonder-HD...item45fa019f18

should be good as long as the unit is not DOA

for those interested, this is the matrox I found:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

being that these are usually pricey it is definitely a unit that will need bid sniped.

Yeah, that looks like a winner for the ATI.

Matrox probably fine, too, if you need/want a new card.

I'm in the market for another TBC
--- or alternative device that is both transparent AND provides frame sync, and without being rack mount sized ---
but that's it.
Currently eying some DV cameras, watching Craigslist and eBay for TBCs.
Likely will end up just buying an AVT-8710 from B&H, however.

Doesn't a full frame TBC inherently supply frame sync? Or are you referring to a TBC that can be genlocked to an external clock? If so, Cypress sells the CTB-100G which I would presume is a CTB-100 with a genlock add-on board. There is an extra header on my AVT-8710's PCB that it likely plugs into.

No, it doesn't have to.
Many ancient rack mount TBCs, for example, don't output constant sync, relying on external genlock in the rack. A lot of "stabilizers" could be considered TBCs (and some claim to be), because they incorporate some degree or TBC-like functionality. But these don't necessarily maintain constant sync.

davideck of VH wrote this several years ago:
And that's not a flawless definition either. But it's a good start. He and I have gone in circles for years now, trying to define what a TBC is. I more or less gave up, preferring to define by example, instead of defining by technical specs or jargon.

That's where this came from: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...time-base.html

You'll notice that the DataVideo TBCs specifically state "TBC / Frame Synchronizer" on the unit, while the TVOne AVT-8710 mentions frame sync in documentation. Furthermore, both of those were specifically designed for consumer and professional "consumer offspring" (i.e., S-VHS) type formats, and understanding digital conversion was a primary market power. The DataVideo books blatantly state this on the cover of the manuals, by way of format support logos.

Newby, I'm having the same problem with my AVT-8710 as well. Just received it a few days ago from B&H and I've tried new cables, different power strips, different TVs (2 CRTs and 2 LCD HDTVs). No dice. And that was without any computer equipment or procAmps in the middle.

I also experienced the same menu effect you mentioned. Sometimes I could even see a "line-ghosted" image of the previous menu once I went back to the main menu. And whenever I unplugged the unit and plugged it back in, the menu usually looked either worse from the start or somewhat normal until I navigated the function menu and it was just a red mess.

There was also an issue where it would drop back to the color bars for a while when playing back certain tapes. But that could be a tape/vcr issue; not sure.

Either way, I'm going to RMA mine today or Sunday. I know I won't get an exchange until maybe May, but I've got a new TBC-1000 on the way, so we'll see how that works.

I hope the issue isn't B&H getting a faulty batch.

In order to get my rma out before their holiday I actually didn't do an rma... I bought a second unit and asked for a refund for the original. They didn't charge shipping for return or new unit. I might not get my money back until after their break but at least I *might* get a functional unit on monday. Ill keep you posted.

-- merged --

This is BS. Second unit arrived today and same thing. You guys have any ideas?
I wish I would have written down the serial number from the last unit. this one is 2 238406 014057
B&H isnt open until the 27th. I'm not impressed.

I have a few alternatives for the AVT-8710. I'll get back to you soon on this, with some suggestions.
It sounds like B&H has a bad shipment. They really need to figure that out, and soon.

As far as the ATI 600 USB in Windows 7 -- there are workarounds to make it work. Give me several days to put that together, and then test it here locally with my 600 and a Windows 7 64 system.

You're just not having very good luck, it seems. :(

I wonder if the ebay version is of a different batch...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Video-Time-Base-...item518ce31cc7

no kidding. I've got over 100 tapes to get archived that I know of... I'm thinking 1/3 to 1/2 of which were recorded on EP! I've spent a lot of money and have a lot to do. That is making me anxious to get cracking and be able to show some results!

if the workarounds entail running xp emulation mode, tell me now and i'll save you some time because I HATE having to do that crap. I'll just sell this one and find something else in that case.

I could be wrong, but these look like CTB-100s, which are basically the same as an AVT-8710.

My unit is not far off from yours. 2 238406 014064. I'm beginning to think I'll have the same luck as you did with an exchange. Maybe I'll try a CTB-100 until a bad batch can be ruled out. Unfortunately, I just got news that due to a parts shortage, the TBC-1000 I ordered won't arrive until late May instead of a 5-day backorder as stated.

On top of that, my TV Wonder 600 USB I bought used off of Amazon arrived without the AV input adapter, so its back to returns. I have the PCIe version, but I need to do a small case modification to get it to fit into the PCIe 1x slot. Its a little tight. I'm eager to get to work too, but S happens. :)

I know you said you weren't interested in emulation via a VM ( I highly doubt that would even work, anyway. ) but do you have an XP disc from a previous computer so you can do a dual boot?

Cypress CTB-100 (silver box, blue sticker)
= AVToolbox AVT-8710 (torquise box, black sticker)
= TVOne AVT-8710 (black box, black sticker)
= LEKTCB-100 (silver box, blue sticker)

Same timebase corrector. [;^)]

Cyress Technology in Taiwan is the actual manufacturer of this box. Somebody I knew online went to the physical location some years ago.
Online: http://www.cypress.com.tw/english/display.asp?id=310

Cypress CTB-100G -aka- TVOne 1T-TBC in uglier case: http://www.cypress.com.tw/english/display.asp?id=309
Again, Cypress is manufacturer. TVOne/AVToolbox is USA importer, private labeler (outsourcing/reseller).

Some many years, circa 2003-2004, there were a lot of crummy CTB boxes out there, and AVT had tight quality control. At that point, everybody was warning buyers to avoid the cheaper CTB-100 (imported from eBay.co.uk, mostly) and get the $25 "more expensive" AVT-8710 from AVToolbox's site. That was before B&H even started to carry it. I can only guess that has changed, and QC is gone. Sadly, that's happened with many companies, due to the Great Recession.

Markertek sells it, too, but it's generally $15+ more expensive there.
Also sold by a few shady-looking web stores I'd never use myself, or suggest to others. (Think cheap Chinese crap.)

I recently bought a different non-rack timebase corrector than the often-discussed DataVideo or Cypress gear. I'm expecting big things from it. I won't mention brand/make/model until I get mine, test it, run a few jobs on it, and then decide on how well it has performed.

Yep, that's the problem with eBay, too. Amazon is generally a safer bet, but even it's not perfect when it comes to used equipment. Without that wire, the stick is mostly useless.

me, too.
 

Dogpile...but not on the (re-seller), the "batch" nor whatever flavor of cables used...
Black case, black sticker, s/n ends in ...007868

In 2009, I bought my AVT-8710 here:

http://www.omegamultimedia.com/AV_To...Corrector.html

for the price the link still says today.
Mine does the exact same thing as newby and Tuco have described.
Too much of a coincidence. I figured it was probably just me, but I now suspect these flaws fall solely upon the manufacturer. Too bad, my unit has a round sticker saying that it passed Quality Control standards: "Q.C.OK"

Yeah.
And I'm gettin' younger, too.:mad:

Cypress isn't exactly known for their quality control. Their other video products suffer from the same hit or miss quality issues.

windows 7 ultimate has virtualization built into it and has the ability to emulate xp quite well actully: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/vir.../download.aspx

I just dont like doing it because to me it gets real messy real quick. I personally feel its a bandaid provided my microshaft for all those blackbox programs out there that will NEVER be updated from xp compatibility.

With Win7 ultimate you are actually also buying a license of xp pro. speaking of old hardware i've got an old hp designjet 600 plotter that supposedly will work with Win7 64bit if I find the generic 64bit HP drivers shipped with the XP 64 disc.

thanks for the link. Admin, is this what you are thinking? I have had to do this type of forced drivers before... not fun but at least worked.

For those interested in the ebay option, this is what I got from the seller (please read from bottom up... email trail):

I edited your post, to put the email trail in quotes -- easier to read. :)

...?

Situations like this are almost hard to respond to. It can go three ways:

• The various women in my life would advise me to give this person the benefit of doubt, and to be understanding of their lack of understanding.
• The men split up pretty well 50/50, with the first half simply ignoring the situation and moving on.
• However, I admittedly fit into the last category, in that second half of men, when I observe this sort of situation. The person strikes me as being any one, or combination of, these: lazy, ignorant/uneducated, stubborn/obstinate, stupid. And I'm generally not afraid to voice my opinion. I can actually think of a few more descriptive terms, but this site has a professional environment to maintain.

It's quite obvious that the seller:

1. Does not understand what a timebase corrector is, and/or
2. Does not care to answer your questions, and/or
3. Does not know how to, or is to lazy to, test the TBC available for sale.

I have no problem placing blame where blame is due, whether it's user error or manufacturing defect. But to outright insinuate you don't know what you're doing -- even after it's been demonstrated that you do -- is irritating and anger-inducing.

People like that should be fired. Or if self employed, seek a new field, as this one's not working out.

There are days when I run into multiple people like this. By the end of the day, you almost can't avoid lashing back at one of them. I was in a Best Buy not long ago, looking at the 23" LG IPS LCD, and was approached by a loud salesman going on and on (with a customer in tow) about how LED is better than an LCD (most of it bunk). But a LED is an LCD! Being annoyed that Johnny Volume Control was basically yelling in my ear, I corrected him. It felt good, too. As a former tech writer that reviewed televisions for articles, I matter-of-factly told him that LED is an LCD. LED is just the light source. LCD is the display technology, or liquid crystal display (LCD!), and is a non-luminous technology. Non-LED LCDs mostly use CCFL as the light source. And do you know what his reply was? Utter nonsense, with a heavy misuse of jargon to try and impress the first customer, plus another that walked up to hear the conversation. It was complete technobabble. He even proceeded to state that I was confusing LCD TVs with LCD monitors. (But the technology are more or less identical!) Rather than learn something, he stuck his head farther up ... well, I'm sure you can guess the geography. There's just no dealing with stupid.

That eBay auction does not sound like a secure buy. :(

You may be forced to go the DataVideo TBC-1000 route. Or one of the other available models. However, it all likelihood, you'll need a budget of $300/350+ unless you get lucky.

I wish I could get a suspected "bad" unit to test here. Without buying one, of course. I'm willing to look at a bad TBC, if anybody wants to send it here.

This ATI 600 capturing problems have been moved here: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/vide...-600-card.html
Continue that topic there.
We'll leave this thread just for the TBC issues.

Thanks. :)

Do you have a scope/generator that you can actually test the TBC with? As it is, I have a week before B&H are back online so I could mail you my box. PM me an address.

On an aside... I don't know how much money your site brings in or your vhs archiving but have you guys thought about getting into hardware?

Similar situation to best buy: I frequently flame losers on forums. Only when they really deserve it though. :-) I HATE when people reply with 'use the search'.... as if the poor schmuck or myself hasn't allready tried! Or when someone just regurgitates garbage without actuly knowing the answer. Its not the fault of the person asking the 'dumb' question if the the forum is laid out like $hitt and the info is not redily available. If you can't back up your answer with hands on experience/pics/sources then shutup.

No scope, though I may be able to borrow one. Not really that important, layman tests from a keen eye and ability to A/B compare against known-good TBCs is all that really matters. To reverse engineer the actual problem, you'd need/want scopes and whatnot.

We used to flip hardware. Buy, repair/clean, resell. I have some JVC S-VHS decks currently in the repair/clean process, for that very thing. But it will be a while before any of that is ready -- months. I'm selling off an Intel P4 + ATI AIW 128 Pro right now. It's in the Marketplace forum. Relatively low cost, all things considered.

I know you can virtualize the operating system itself (I have several virtual setups), but I was trying to say that I don't see capping being very successful via virtualization. I can see all kinds of problems there.

Well, I might just have a spare CTB-100 soon. I rolled the dice and purchased one from that seller. If it exhibits the same behavior as my AVT-8710 and I can't send it back, then have at it. This is what happens when you rush into things instead of just waiting it out a bit. *Fingers crossed*. Embarrassing because I don't usually go that route when shopping. I have money locked into purchases now that adds up to a brand new TBC-1000 if I just waited until the end of May. *Slap!*

Anyway, I'll let everyone know how it goes with the new unit....if it arrives.

Alright, as follow-up...

(1) DataVideo DAC-100 DV converter. As I had suspected, it does analog pass-through, and has a frame synchronizer that works in the passthrough mode. I can't get it to work on s-video, but that may just be my copy of the unit -- it's of unknown origin and care. Composite is fine. I was able to record a copy protected retail tape to a a quick test DVD (about 5 minutes worth), so it should be fine on any problem source. I bought it for all of $35 shipped. MSRP on these was at least $200 about 7 years ago. This was often referred to as a "Canopus ADVC-100 clone" but it's really not. The Canopus has no frame sync. I believe the Canopus also DV encoded the input before output. I'm keeping this for my second project stack.

(2) Key West Big Voodoo BVTBC. This unit freaks out on the JVC blue screen, too, but it seems to work fine as a frame sync. It does nothing for horizontal jitter, as I had hoped. I think the next models, the BVTBC8 and/or BVTBC10 may do that, however. My copy has odd pixel glitches on s-video, but composite looks fine. Unsure what causes this. I've seen these infrequently on eBay from $100-400, and this was a $800+ TBC when new about 9-10 years ago. These were made for just a few years by Key West, then they quit. Three models in about a six-year time frame. I may sell this in the future.

If you put the BVTBC into genlock mode, and no genlock is attached, it misbehaves and acts really erratic -- almost in the way being described by some of these posts. Interesting!!!! I wonder if these particular AVT-8710 units you guys have have a specific single bad circuit.

Those are two more AVT-8710 / CTB-100 alternatives, that still have a non-rack size. (Rack mounts units are larger than VCRs, and a nuisance to use in any non-rack environment.)

I would not give up on the AVT-8710, however!!! I think it's a superior option. By far the cleanest and most transparent TBC (AGC correction, frame sync, etc) of the available choices.

I personally dont care if it's rack mount or not... I just want something that works for about the same price point as the AVT unit.

I just got off the phone with B&H... They are going to 'look into the issue and ship another unit out'.

Just finished testing my new CTB-100. It exhibits the same problem. I think I will hold out for a new TBC-1000 until the issue is resolved.

Thanks for the insight, LS!

There must be something I/we are missing. This is my first experience using a TBC so perhaps I am expecting it to do more than it is supposed to. Kind of how people think the new weight loss pill is the magic bullet of obesity.

Both my AVT-8710 and the CTB-100 freak out on the JVC blue screen. But I don't get that same effect when playing a video. I can live with a messed up JVC OSD ( I don't really sit around and cap myself flipping around the jvc settings [8] ).

However, I noticed that I get a lot of vertical "jumping" on several of my tapes, even an SP dub of the 1960's Batman animated series. Because I dubbed it in SP, I expect more from it (Not saying I should, but I have SP is Flawless Disease). Granted, it is worse without the TBC than with it, but I would expect it to not jump vertically at all with a TBC ( correct me if I am wrong ). I have even tried using it in conjunction with the built-in "TBC" on the JVC SR-V10U. That just makes it worse, but it is mostly solid colors and the DNR looks excellent so I am obsessed about making it work[}:)]. The error I get is something similiar to what you would see if you got the field order wrong and tried to watch it on an interlaced TV. I'll see if I can take some screen caps, but the desktop is out of commision until my new MB arrives. Some parts of the video get jerky and "stuttery", for lack of a better term. If you've ever made an SVCD back in the day and got the field order wrong, then you know what I'm talking about.

I'm thinking of holding on to the CTB-100 because the AVT has already gone back and I think I may be expecting a magic bullet here when it really isn't. I've only got two VCRs to test with, so so I'm starting to think that just because it doesn't work in one prosumer JVC ( SR-V10U in my case ) doesn't mean another high-end JVC (or the recommended Mitsubishi model on this site) won't do better.

Maybe instead of dropping $500 on a brand new TBC-1000, I should use those resources to purchase another high-end VCR?

If I decide to keep this TBC for now ( have 12 days to decide ) then maybe I can ship it to someone on this site to test, who has a more extensive line of hardware and experience than myself and can confirm if its the TBC or "magic bullet" syndrome.

I'll keep the thread updated as I test more sources.

You will once you see how hot those often get, and how much room they'll take up. Put two VCRs side by side, then add an oven underneath. That's a rack-mounted TBC.

That will always be the issue.

Yeah, I can imagine how that will go:

• BH: Hi, we have reports that your units may be faulty. Any truth to that?
• AVT: No.
• BH: Okay, thanks.

That's just my experience. Good prices, great product selection, yet run with some level of incompetence about their own products. I blasted them in a post on Videohelp a couple years ago, because salesmen were known to upsell TBC buyers on Canopus ADVC boxes, claiming they "did the same thing" when that's ridiculous. (A DV converter is not a TBC. Although a DAC-100 could replace one, it seems, given its frame sync and VBI blanking.) After that public interaction, I never again heard of B&H upselling a DV converter for a TBC.

I probably could have handled that a little nicer, but it really started to irritate me. I would suggest somebody get a TBC, and next thing you know, they had a Canopus converter and were again asking me why they were having "copyright" troubles on their homemade tapes. ARGH! (Granted, those questions askers were apparently very easy to manipulate. Not the brightest crayons in the box.)

All criticism aside, I still suggest people buy certain things at B&H. :thumb:

three strikes?
 

so third unit arrived. s/n 2238406013982

JVC 9911> AVT-8710 w/ S-vid: image is ok until the JVC tbc kicks in. then its ghosting. if you turn tbc off once the ghosting has started, the AVT does not recover until you cycle power. with the JVC TBC off and all other options enabled, the AVT is ok until the tape gets a little rough, then it ghosts. in edit mode and all enhancements turned off the image looks ok but is much more sensitive to the tape irregularities and ghosts much sooner. in otherwords with out S3 enabled it really sucks.

JVC 9911> AVT-8710 w/composite vid: image looks like crap and ghosts almost instantly no matter what options are selected.

JVC 9911 > straight to tv with s-vid: looks pretty good. during the rough patches where the TBC and S3 are getting a work out you can barely catch the image shift vertically... you really have to be looking for it. other then that, there are no other artifacts.

I'd like to see some more photos or sample video clips.
Something is odd here.

frankly I'd like box the JVC and AVT up and send it to someone with a scope. very frustrated.

I will hopefully get the ATI stick installed tomorrow (still no guide but apparently its suppose to be go right in... guess I was just in a hurry before) and get some capture shots.

Like i said, different cables, sources, composite and S Vid. I wish I had another VCR... I might ask the neighbors if they have one just for due diligence.

That may be a good idea -- verify the VCR output is clean. (Eliminate variables.)