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  #1  
10-22-2011, 04:17 PM
stuckinstandby stuckinstandby is offline
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Hope this is the right forum for this sort of post...

Just received (by courier) a Panasonic NV-HS 860 VCR. The seller said it was fully working apart from occasional issues ejecting cassettes.

It powers up ok, but when you put a cassette in the motors whir for a second or two and then it powers off. When you power it on again it ejects the cassette (which sometimes requires manual assistance).

I've taken the lid off for a look and it isn't pulling the tape from the cassette. The cassette appears to be in the correct position but the guides never move up to lift the tape.

I noticed what appears to be one of the teeth of the small white loading gear, broken and sitting in grease on the adjoining metal rail. I'm guessing this is the cause of the intermittent eject problem, but would it cause the loading problem too? I can't see how the mechanism works as far as making the guides move - they're attached to two cogs and these have some movement but I can't see what would drive them - should there be a rubber band from somewhere?

I can put up some photos or a video if anyone can help.

Thanks

PS I've never serviced a VCR before but repaired various other electronics in the past.
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  #2  
10-25-2011, 04:15 AM
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kpmedia kpmedia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinstandby View Post
Hope this is the right forum for this sort of post...
Close enough.

Quote:
Just received (by courier) a Panasonic NV-HS 860 VCR. The seller said it was fully working apart from occasional issues ejecting cassettes.
Not really what I'd call "fully working", but okay. (Let me guess: eBay?)

Quote:
It powers up ok, but when you put a cassette in the motors whir for a second or two and then it powers off. When you power it on again it ejects the cassette (which sometimes requires manual assistance).
I've taken the lid off for a look and it isn't pulling the tape from the cassette. The cassette appears to be in the correct position but the guides never move up to lift the tape.
This can be caused by any number of issues, generally speaking. Not a fun error to troubleshoot, trust me.

Quote:
I noticed what appears to be one of the teeth of the small white loading gear, broken and sitting in grease on the adjoining metal rail. I'm guessing this is the cause of the intermittent eject problem, but would it cause the loading problem too?
Eject and load are part of the same system.
Anything broken is never a good sign -- especially not on the pulleys or cogs/wheels.

Quote:
I can't see how the mechanism works as far as making the guides move - they're attached to two cogs and these have some movement but I can't see what would drive them - should there be a rubber band from somewhere?
There is usually at least one rubber band. (Not really an office supply "rubber band", but a special rubber pulley for VCRs.)

Quote:
I can put up some photos or a video if anyone can help.
Do it.

Quote:
PS I've never serviced a VCR before but repaired various other electronics in the past.
Be sure to look at the service manuals available for free on this site.
The index of all available manuals is here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...s-service.html
If your exact model isn't available, find a similar model number. Doesn't hurt to look.

A lot of VCR repair shops just read the books anyway. At most, they have more tools than you, and are more familiar with VCRs in general. Assuming the problem is an easy fix, you can do it yourself. Sometimes I support the idea of "let the pros do it", and sometimes I'm fully behind DIY methods. This can be an easy DIY.

Post the photos, let's take a look.

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  #3  
10-25-2011, 09:41 AM
stuckinstandby stuckinstandby is offline
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Thanks for the response.

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Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
Not really what I'd call "fully working", but okay. (Let me guess: eBay?)
Where else!

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Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
There is usually at least one rubber band. (Not really an office supply "rubber band", but a special rubber pulley for VCRs.)
I've now discovered this is a Z-mechanism and based on the service manuals and other pictures there should only one rubber band on the base.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
Be sure to look at the service manuals available for free on this site.
The index of all available manuals is here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...s-service.html
If your exact model isn't available, find a similar model number. Doesn't hurt to look.
Should have said, I've already had a look through the ones there and none of them appear to use the Z-mechanism. I've now found z-mechanism service manuals elsewhere - there are quite a few so once I work them out I'll upload them for inclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
A lot of VCR repair shops just read the books anyway. At most, they have more tools than you, and are more familiar with VCRs in general. Assuming the problem is an easy fix, you can do it yourself. Sometimes I support the idea of "let the pros do it", and sometimes I'm fully behind DIY methods. This can be an easy DIY.
That's good to hear. I'm in touch with the eBay seller and said I'd try to work out the fault and take it from there. I expect him to pay for any expense, so if I can do it myself that will make things easier.

Since my initial post I noticed that the tension band had lifted off the supply spindle and the plastic part next to it (to the left in the pictures) wasn't hooked behind the other plastic bit. I've also removed the guide cogs and checked them - only one tooth missing and it's quite far round. I've re-assembled it but still behaving the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
Post the photos, let's take a look.
Attached.
  • 22102011067.jpg - just after I took the lid off. You can see one of the teeth, sitting in the 3rd groove to the left in the centre.
  • 22102011069.jpg - the base before I removed anything else. There's a small bit of black plastic on one of the arms.
  • DSCF3121.jpg - top view today, after I re-assembled
  • DSCF3125.jpg - bottom view today, after I re-assembled
Is it worth considering buying a cheap (5-10) Panasonic with a Z-mechanism in the hope of being able to swap them over? I guess the parts will be more or less the same but entire thing might not fit the casing exactly?


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 22102011067.jpg (80.7 KB, 40 downloads)
File Type: jpg 22102011069.jpg (63.7 KB, 35 downloads)
File Type: jpg DSCF3121.jpg (75.2 KB, 30 downloads)
File Type: jpg DSCF3125.jpg (76.7 KB, 24 downloads)
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  #4  
10-25-2011, 10:47 AM
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kpmedia kpmedia is offline
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Where's NJRoadFan ? -- earth to NJ, come in NJ, over ....
He may have some more answers. There's a number of members at this site who get dirty with VCRs, and he's one of the regulars around here.

Regarding the z-mech question... maybe. At worst, it's a failed gamble. At best, it's a cheap fixer part. (Assuming it's bought cheaply.)
Sometimes simply buying another "for parts" VCR is good. I've done that. Two pieces of crap can sometimes equal one new "good" machine.

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  #5  
10-25-2011, 06:27 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
Where's NJRoadFan ? -- earth to NJ, come in NJ, over ....
He may have some more answers. There's a number of members at this site who get dirty with VCRs, and he's one of the regulars around here.
I was busy working my unglamorous day job.

Taking a look at the Z mechanism manual (attached, warning, written in Engrish) and your pictures, I noticed that a part labelled "SS Brake Arm" is missing from your pictures of the bottom of the unit. Maybe thats causing a problem?

Its tough to diagnose things like this without seeing how it works. My course of action is to look for broken or missing parts. A stripped gear will usually throw a loading mechanism out of sync leaving some gears in the wrong position.

Buying another VCR with the same mechanism for parts is recommended and usually cheaper. Chances are more then one part can be broken/missing, and some are usually no longer available for purchase from the vendor. It also allows you to observe how the machine properly works (assuming your parts VCR isn't broken).


Attached Files
File Type: pdf Panasonic Z Mechanism.pdf (5.64 MB, 44 downloads)
File Type: pdf Panasonic Z Mech (Service Hints).pdf (2.44 MB, 31 downloads)

Last edited by NJRoadfan; 10-25-2011 at 06:47 PM.
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  #6  
10-26-2011, 02:30 PM
stuckinstandby stuckinstandby is offline
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I posted on vintage-radio.net and got a few suggestions, including checking the plastic motor coupling for splits. The suggestion was that there might be enough torque for a low-load operation like ejecting the cassette but not enough for loading the tape and moving the guides. It might also explain why it sometimes fails to eject the cassette.

So I had a close look it was indeed split through Picture attached.

So on to solutions. As a quick fix to try and get this going I wonder if super glue might hold? Worth a try I suppose.

I've found a replacement online from sparedparts.com for 1.50, although it's 6.15 with delivery. Can't find it anywhere else cheaper via Google. Being a cheapskate I might just hold out for another z-mech VCR and then I'll have a load of spares if anything else goes wrong. If I can get one for about 10 it'd be worth it.

I guess there could be further problems. The coupling might have split because something else was preventing the mechanism from moving further. We'll see...


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  #7  
10-26-2011, 10:54 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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I feel a bit dense, but it's not always obvious where the issue is. Considering opening photos in Photoshop and adding some boxes/circle and arrows to help out us blind dummies.

Super glue is permanent, but only if used on something that's not a moving part. Super gluing a broken tooth on a cog, for example, won't last. It's temporary at best. Literally, it could last less than an hour when put to use. So don't count on that being a good fix. Ideally you want to replace it. There are Betamax and U-matic owners out there who have become so desperate for replacement parts that people now mold their own new plastic/rubber parts.

8 quid is what ... 13 bucks, or thereabouts? All things considered, that's still cheap for a replacement part. I've paid more.

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  #8  
10-27-2011, 03:52 AM
stuckinstandby stuckinstandby is offline
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I've marked up the photo to try to show the split better - it was more obvious in the original larger image but the forum scaled it down.

I'll give the superglue a go - I'd just like to see this working. I should get a better idea of the impact of the missing tooth in the loading gear as well.

The part is cheap but I'm a cheapskate Postage is pretty high - 4.65 for a tiny part! I guess that's just the way it works - flat rate postage with the lighter parts offsetting the heavier parts. It just makes me think if I can get another Z-mech VCR for 10-15 that might be better value. I probably need to replace the loading gear anyway and I've heard it's hard to find a new replacement part for that.


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File Type: jpg DSCF3130_1.jpg (126.9 KB, 33 downloads)
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  #9  
12-28-2015, 04:55 AM
ChrisF ChrisF is offline
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@stuckinstandy

I don't suppose you still have the part number (or full name) my 2nd hand VCR has just suffered from exactly the same problem (thank you very much for posting - I would never have noticed the split had I not been looking for it due to you post here).
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  #10  
12-28-2015, 06:23 AM
stuckinstandby stuckinstandby is offline
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Hey ChrisF, I checked on sparedparts and they have it listed as discontinued:
http://sparedparts.com/parts/details...upling_vdp1660

Seems like the part number is VDP-1660.

I ended up salvaging the part from an NV-HD640 which uses the same Z-mechanism. I managed to get it for free after putting out a wanted ad on a freecycle type forum.

Super Glue's worth a shot as a temp fix.

Best of luck!
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