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  #61  
03-13-2014, 10:06 AM
Argalby Argalby is offline
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Thanks! Actually that Y/C card with the wires coming out of it is working well, gives a great picture. The problem is that the color/BW switch on the front of the unit does nothing, always stays in color mode. Switched the front board, then went on a hunt checking connectors, but still with no results. Wondering if this is something a university modified for their own purposes. Compared to other units, there's a few caps bridging connectors on the solder side of the main board, makes me wonder.
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  #62  
03-13-2014, 08:09 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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There clearly are variation in the Y/C card. Mine is a February 1996 machine based on the serial number. Compared to the images earlier in this thread it has wires coming out from under the metal cover, and the daughter (sub) card does not have the crystal and trimmer on it - it is on the YC card. Also the sub card attachment lead routing is different. The other leads from the are soldered to various points under the back side cover, and there are several components mounted on the back looking a lot like an after thought or slip streamed design change/fix (4 ceramic disc caps and a resistor). It is not a pretty thing.


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  #63  
03-13-2014, 09:14 PM
Argalby Argalby is offline
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Yes, that's mine! It is really ugly compared to the newer versions. Thanks for the photo, I thought I had the only one
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  #64  
03-13-2014, 09:21 PM
Just_a_hobby Just_a_hobby is offline
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Argalby and Dpalomaki, Do these old style YC cards have the same caps on them as the new style? Since your old card is still working ok are the original caps of better quality than the newer style cards??? The YC card I recapped was the new style year 2000 with many bad SMD caps. I do have a cap kit for these with all (SMD and Electrolytic) caps required for the YC card just haven't had time to list it yet.
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  #65  
03-13-2014, 09:41 PM
Argalby Argalby is offline
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just_a_hobby --- I haven't had my "old" Y/c card apart, as far as I can tell it's working okay (other than the bw/color switch isn't working) There's no rhyme or reason why these cards fail. I've had other 1996 ones (metal can type Y/C) and they are still working, and I've had new (circa 2001) ones that have failed. Might be because the previous owner didn't use it much, or maybe used it too much. Not sure what's good to prolong life on the original caps. Maybe they need to get warmed up to live longer?
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  #66  
03-14-2014, 04:26 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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My '96 no doubt has some bad electrolytic caps. It is a mix of SMD and axial lead, and it shows the "barber pole" noise. Also, the timer board has some bad axial caps as evidence by extremely dim display (almost totally dark). However, I have not had a chance to do comprehensive on-board measurements yet - day job and honey-do lists get in the way. A spot check of a few show some with excessive ESR, and some OK. Looks like over the next week I may have a chance to work up a shopping list of replacement caps. The caps are likely what ever was current Panasonic production at the time.

In the photos the caps look the same as newer boards, and the 1995 copyright FMS shows the same Panasonic part numbers in the parts list. The limited markings on the devices I checked appear match the part number ratings for temp, voltage, and mfd.

A photo of the back side of the Y-C board is attached for your viewing pleasure.


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Last edited by dpalomaki; 03-14-2014 at 04:41 AM.
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  #67  
03-14-2014, 06:18 AM
Argalby Argalby is offline
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Thanks for those photos. Interesting! Certainly not as compact or tidy as the newer version. It looks like the connector strip on the edge may be the same, so I'm wondering how they got rid of all those wires. One of Life's mysteries
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  #68  
03-14-2014, 12:17 PM
videonut videonut is offline
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I saw two different Y/C cards, newer versions (1997 thru 2001) and ALL have bad caps. Just because it works does not mean it works the way it should. Period. If you already have it opened why not check them out. I have one unit like new from 2001 with very low hours and even that had BAD dried caps. The smd are the first to go and even with 10-20 bad caps was still working. Go figure that.
Do not buy into those stories selling units like new, or from a doctor, or low hours of use, etc. Those are sales people. All units need to be recapped.
There are some notorious caps that fail and have big a impact on the unit.
Changing those will cost you probably 200-365 on fleebay, not bad for 10-15 caps.
There are no other parts available for this units at this time because they do not make them anymore, besides a pinch roller or some plastic gear, old stock.
Start with fixing the power module, than fix the Y/C module and if you care about sound look into the sound modules. There is another module that can give you problems once TBC is engaged and you might want to look into that too. The main board is so-so. In the end if you want to fix the display too ( by changing few caps) because by doing that you will get rid of the hissing sound from the power source also.
ALL units need to be recapped, no exceptions or I could not find one. Some will work as is for a while but sooner than later will start act funny...
Just my 2 cents.
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  #69  
03-16-2014, 01:48 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Another view of the '96 vintage YC board, under the shield. Note the blue jumper soldered to two pins of an IC on a small daughter card, and a similarly soldered black wire to an IC on the other side of the daughter card. This sure looks like a kludge design fix. There 14 SMD e-caps and 3 conventional e-caps under the cover. I suspect the flexible shield was also retrofit so solve some problem.


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  #70  
03-18-2014, 07:37 PM
Argalby Argalby is offline
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Thanks for that view dpalomaki, I haven't had time to compare the two versions of the board, but I'm guessing they reworked the new board to make it neater. Those wires are ridonculous!
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  #71  
03-31-2014, 10:36 AM
videonut videonut is offline
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On a different note I remember the admin was mentioning that more people are complaining about this units going out of alignment. I can confirm that. Well the plastic components start to show aging signs. First the lubricant locks the plastic gear and when you take them apart you can see hairline cracks. I am not sure if during the years some lubricated the plastics with the wrong lubricant and that caused them to deteriorate further. Anyways the black lubricant that was used between the plastic and metal parts is a problem after so many years. That locks so many times the pinch roller. I would clean up all that and replace it with one friendly for plastics. Yes you have to take everything apart and put it back together, but you have here the manual for the k-mechanism and it was not such a big deal.
Example: I noticed one time that the unit was working great but at times was showing different errors ( not always the same one) and making that funny sound that makes you think is out of alignment. Well I took it apart for at least 10 times and took me more than a month to figure it out. Well it was the small plastic bolt that is attached to the motor (metal part) that had a hairline crack and from time to time was slipping. So the motor was working but not engaging the plastic gear. Simple as that but could not be fixed. What a shame. No parts for that. I can try to get a used unit and hope that this part is still ok. That is why i would not pay more than $40 on a non-working unit.
Still love my panasonic.
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  #72  
07-06-2014, 04:02 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Have finally started on the E-cap replacement project.

After replacing about 38 or so radials on six different boards, I am finding about 20% clearly have excessive ESR using an in-circuit tester.

Have not yet started on the boards with surface mounts.
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  #73  
07-11-2014, 07:49 PM
videonut videonut is offline
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Nice. More than a hundred to go. You will have a great unit. Unfortunately the plastic mechanism can also go bad. Also remove all that dark grease that can make it get stuck and put something good for metal and plastic. So far I had in my hands three brand new units from my friends asking me to take a look, and the same caps that usually go bad were already dry though all the units worked great (picture, display, no hissing noise, etc.) The caps were not completely gone, but with an ESR of 20-50 and only one or two were completely dead. Yes everything was working nice, go figure. This units were just sitting packed nice and not used. Hard to believe, but that is what I encountered but some might have had different experiences. I do this for fun and unfortunately many things you will have to figure out by yourself. I usually do not get straight answer at any of my questions. Wonder why. Anyways be careful when you put it together, some connections can get loose and VCR starts acting funny or even worse. Wish you good luck and be safe.
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  #74  
07-17-2014, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videonut View Post
I do this for fun and unfortunately many things you will have to figure out by yourself. I usually do not get straight answer at any of my questions. Wonder why.
Analog video is chaos -- it really is. It's not uncommon for several professionals to get together to brainstorm an issue, as we have no idea WTF is wrong either. There's just so many variables.

Another problem is so few video professionals with experience post online. I help where I can, but I certainly don't know everything. And my experience/background is relegated to specific areas of video. I lament this myself. I'm the kind of person that likes to learn from the success and failures of others -- not just myself. So having to go it alone can really suck, especially if other out there have already been there before, and could have saved me the time/pain/nuisance. It's why this forum exists. We do attract some pros and serious hobbyists, and we value them here. I sometime learn from folks here just as much as they learn from me.

FYI, we never purposely overlook questions on this site, even if to say "I don't know". But some slip through the cracks at times. Just bump it if it's sits for a week. One of us will get to it -- probably me if it's an advanced restoration topic.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
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  #75  
07-23-2014, 04:11 PM
mjrossit mjrossit is offline
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I have a Panasonic AG-5710 and the picture looks pretty good to me. However, when TBC is enabled the picture scrolls horizontally about 4-5 times per second. Would replacing capacitors fix this issue possibly?


Thanks!

Matt
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  #76  
07-25-2014, 02:44 AM
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That's a typical 5710/1980 caps issue, yes.

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  #77  
07-25-2014, 09:29 AM
videonut videonut is offline
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For myself I would do the following:
1. first the caps on the Y/C card should be replaced
2. have someone check all connections between the main board and the detachable cards. If you attempted to remove stuff or some "professional" did, than you have a loose connection somewhere.
3. someone will have to replace some more caps (check the service manual they have it here and the circuits involving the TBC).
See if someone can help you and be safe.
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  #78  
07-25-2014, 11:12 AM
mjrossit mjrossit is offline
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Do you know where I can get a pretty clean copy of the Panasonic AG-5710 service manual? I have a copy of the AG-1980 service manual. I've seen it some places where you have to pay, which I don't have a problem with if it's reasonable.

This VCR looks like it was treated pretty well. It's very clean. However the guy that shipped it to me did a very poor packing job and left the power cable connected so I ended up having to repair the power supply when it got bumped. It works great now except for the TBC. I'm wondering if something else got jarred inside.
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  #79  
07-25-2014, 11:38 AM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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The AG-5710 shares the same internals as the AG-1980. Besides the lack of a tuner and the RS-232 editing interface, it should have the same boards inside of it.
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  #80  
07-29-2014, 07:04 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Quote:
I usually do not get straight answer at any of my questions. Wonder why.
Many professionsal will not provide answers for free - getting paid for answers after all their living.
And many do not want to continue work after the end of the work day.

Hobbiests will often provide answers, but it becomes a crap shoot as to the quality of the answer and the expertice of the responder in the area of the question.
And some things, like analog VCR repair, are a rather narrow field. Many web surfers can't even reset a VCR clock (present company excluded of course).
And of course there are production variations within a given model - consider the changes in the AG-1980 Y/C board documented in this thread for example.

Caps that have aged (values drifted) out of spec might not cause a system to fail or result noticeable image/audio problems. It depends on the specific purpose of the capacitor in the circuit, how far it is out of spec, and the extent to which it was "over designed."
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